Hartke combo + extension cab. I need some opinions.

[ChickenKiev]

My band has their first gig in December! Woo! Now that are we are starting to gig I'm planning to sell every piece of gear I don't need and am starting to assemble a suitable gig rig.

I currently have a Hartke VX3500 combo amp which is serving me nicely during practice. For all those not in the know, it is pretty much Hartke's famous HA3500 head in a combo with a 4x10. There's a couple of things I'm not happy about though.

Firstly, it is a pain in the arse to transport everywhere as it is huge and bloody heavy; I want something modular that I can break down a little bit easier in my car. Secondly, I hate hate [B]hate[/B] the felt finish on it. It gets full of bits like dog hair and tobacco, and it is starting to fray a little bit on the top. It looks like my amp is starting to rock a perm.

Hartke's Hydrive stuff just looks awesome. The paper-aluminium cone idea just suits my needs perfectly and they aren't covered in felt. Hydrive is the way to go for me honestly.

But Hydrive has a few different products in its range, which makes my choice very tricky.

The Hydrive 210c looks like a solid little amp. It is loud enough that it can hold its own during band practices and it is pretty small and transportable. I was planning on getting a Hydrive 410 extension cabinet to use exclusively for gigs. The cab is there for a little extra volume but more importantly for a little bit of height during gigs.

It seems a little bit pricey to get a 410 for that sole purpose right? I'm surely not going to get the most out of a 500 watt speaker. I've thought about that. As time goes on and gigs (hopefully) get better and my gear gradually gets upgraded, my Hydrive 410 cab will become a part of my future rig. Call it an investment for the future.

That's all well and good, but I've run into a little snag with all my plans.

I honestly can't bare the thought of not having a HA3500. It has a dual tube and solid state preamp. Going from that to the 210c's all solid state preamp seems like a huge step backwards to me as the tone I use during practice uses both preamps. Granted the 210c has some new features that might serve me well, but its a tricky one.

Does anybody have any advice? Any Hartke users out there, past or present, that could speak from experience? Maybe some of you have tried both a HA3500 and a 210c and could potentially put my mind at ease.

Thanks,

Kiev.

Edited October 22, 2013 by ChickenKiev

[Marvin]

[quote name='ChickenKiev' timestamp='1382430046' post='2251912']
My band has their first gig in December! Woo! Now that are we are starting to gig I'm planning to sell every piece of gear I don't need and am starting to assemble a suitable gig rig.

I currently have a Hartke VX3500 combo amp which is serving me nicely during practice. For all those not in the know, it is pretty much Hartke's famous HA3500 head in a combo with a 4x10. There's a couple of things I'm not happy about though.

Firstly, it is a pain in the arse to transport everywhere as it is huge and bloody heavy; I want something modular that I can break down a little bit easier in my car. Secondly, I hate hate [B]hate[/B] the felt finish on it. It gets full of bits like dog hair and tobacco, and it is starting to fray a little bit on the top. It looks like my amp is starting to rock a perm.

Hartke's Hydrive stuff just looks awesome. The paper-aluminium cone idea just suits my needs perfectly and they aren't covered in felt. Hydrive is the way to go for me honestly.

But Hydrive has a few different products in its range, which makes my choice very tricky.

The Hydrive 210c looks like a solid little amp. It is loud enough that it can hold its own during band practices and it is pretty small and transportable. I was planning on getting a Hydrive 410 extension cabinet to use exclusively for gigs. The cab is there for a little extra volume but more importantly for a little bit of height during gigs.

It seems a little bit pricey to get a 410 for that sole purpose right? I'm surely not going to get the most out of a 500 watt speaker. I've thought about that. As time goes on and gigs (hopefully) get better and my gear gradually gets upgraded, my Hydrive 410 cab will become a part of my future rig. Call it an investment for the future.

That's all well and good, but I've run into a little snag with all my plans.

I honestly can't bare the thought of not having a HA3500. It has a dual tube and solid state preamp. Going from that to the 210c's all solid state preamp seems like a huge step backwards to me as the tone I use during practice uses both preamps. Granted the 210c has some new features that might serve me well, but its a tricky one.

Does anybody have any advice? Any Hartke users out there, past or present, that could speak from experience? Maybe some of you have tried both a HA3500 and a 210c and could potentially put my mind at ease.

Thanks,

Kiev.
[/quote]

What about getting an HA3500 head and 2 210 cabs, maybe the Hydrive ones. You'd have the head you like and easier to transport 410 equivelant...you may only need one cab at rehearsal.

FWIW the touring bass player uses a Hydrive 210c on it's own, seems loud enough.

[xgsjx]

+1 for the 2 2x10 route. having a 2x10 & a 4x10 together would possibly mean 2 10s are louder than the other 4.
Stacking the 2x10s vertically also gives you height, making it easier to hear & also has better dispersion.

[Dood]

Unfortunately the Hydrive range doesn't include a 2x10, only the current XL range. If you're not going for a 4x10 then maybe the Hydrive single 15?

[Adrenochrome]

My 'do everything' rig is a HA3500 head with Warwick 411pro 4ohm cab. The cab is fairly heavy but is on a decent set of wheels so no bother for me. The rig overall is loud enough for full outdoor festivals and big stages. I use the valve pre-amp as my standard overdriven rock/metal sound. My HA3500 head is a real workhorse and I can see why you'd want to keep using, just explore different cab options.

[barkin]

You could reduce the weight of the combo by removing the head and putting it in a 2U sleeve thingy. Perhaps.

[Who's Who]

Hi Mr Kiev

I've just had a good read of your post and can offer you a little advice from my own Hartke experience.
Firstly, I can see why you wanna stick with Hartke. I love the stuff and think the price and quality make it some of the best gear around. Secondly, sorry if this is a bit long winded, but I want you to know how I got to my final rig.

My first proper ever rig several years ago was the Hartke HA3500, with the 2.5XL (2x10 + tweeter) cab, plus the 1x15XL cab.
I loved that rig and can see why you wanna stick with that head. But I fancied a change and sold it and moved over to an decent Ashdown rig. I never really got on too well with that rig and really missed my Hartke stuff. I managed to trade the Ashdown for a great Orange rig, with the Terror bass head, which I still have now.

But prior to that I went and bought the LH1000 head with the Hydrive 4x10 cab. Without doubt, this would be my recommendation to you. I also looked at getting the Hydrive 2x10 combo and adding a 4x10 at a later date. But like somebody mentioned earlier, that would result in the 2x10 cab working twice as hard as the 4x10 cab. And there's no getting away from that issue.
I also wanted to stay away from the 1x15, purely because the Hydrive 4x10 is such a fantastic cab.

I play in a covers band and we play a lot of weddings etc in marquee's, so I bought a second 4x10 to add to my rig. But I hardly ever take that out, because the LH1000 with a single 4x10 is such a loud rig anyway.
The reason I mentioned my Orange rig earlier is because I still have it, yet I hardly ever take it out. The Hydrive 4x10 is such a brilliant, loud and very light (for a 4x10) cab. Used with the LH1000 it's such a fantastic rig, I can't see that you'd regret it or ever need anything else.
If you want any further info, PM your number and we can have a chat. But I really can't recommend that rig enough. Also have a look on Thomann, as they are pretty cheap usually with the cabs.

[ChickenKiev]

Thanks for all your feedback so far.

Would a 210c combo and a Hydrive 115 work? Or would I still get the same problems with the 2x10 in the combo amp working harder than the 115?

I don't mind getting a 115 too as that is a part of my future rig too, so I honestly don't mind .

Edited October 22, 2013 by ChickenKiev

[Lozz196]

The 210 & 115 would work, but in all likelyhood you`d have to re-eq when adding the 115. The Hydrive 410 isn`t too heavy a cab to cart about, especially with a good set of castors on it - as oppose to the stock ones. Or there is the Hydrive 112 - two of those with the HA3500 should be plenty. I gig with a 112 combo and 112 ext cab and find that two 12s is plenty (I play punk for reference, so am not a quiet bassist).

[LiamPodmore]

Surely a HA3500 with a HyDrive 4x10 is the logical choice? Or possibly a pair of HX112's if you'd prefer the portability and the sound is to your liking.

Liam

[ChickenKiev]

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1382461120' post='2252464']
Surely a HA3500 with a HyDrive 4x10 is the logical choice? Or possibly a pair of HX112's if you'd prefer the portability and the sound is to your liking.

Liam
[/quote]

Sure. I'm just asking a few questions and getting all the options before I make one particular decision.

A HA3500 and two 2x10s sounds like a good option, but I'm really curious about the height they'd come upto. I'm a pretty tall guy (6ft 1.5), so I'm looking for a waist-high or possibly even a little taller rig.

I know this might sound silly and actually quite superficial, but my bandmates both have Marshall half-stacks. I'm the one playing the [I]proper[/I] instrument, so I'd feel completely daft turning up with a small rig! Its getting that measure between size and transportability. That is what lead me to the idea of the combo and extension cab idea as it would be a two trick pony of some sorts; combo for practice with the extension Hydrive waiting in the wings for live stuff.

Where it gets complicated is that Hartke don't do 2x10 Hydrives, which is a completely bonkers idea if you ask me. The only way to get one would be to buy a combo. Hence the Hartke Hydrive 210c combo amp idea in my rig . Choosing a head and then a 4x10 would just land me straight back to my beginning problem.

I might have a go at emailing Hartke directly with the question. They might never get back to me but it is worth a try I suppose? That's not to say I'm ungrateful for everyones' input because I really appreciate it.

Edited October 22, 2013 by ChickenKiev

[Lozz196]

Get a flightcase for the amp head and when playing put the 410 & head on top of that?

[xgsjx]

If you're stacking the 2x10s vertically, then a single 2x10 would stand @ the same height as a 4x10 & 2 2x10s would be @ the same height as an 8x10.
Get yourself to a shop & try out some cabs.

[Who's Who]

[quote name='ChickenKiev' timestamp='1382465200' post='2252541']
I know this might sound silly and actually quite superficial, but my bandmates both have Marshall half-stacks. I'm the one playing the [i]proper[/i] instrument, so I'd feel completely daft turning up with a small rig! Its getting that measure between size and transportability. That is what lead me to the idea of the combo and extension cab idea as it would be a two trick pony of some sorts; combo for practice with the extension Hydrive waiting in the wings for live stuff.

Where it gets complicated is that Hartke don't do 2x10 Hydrives, which is a completely bonkers idea if you ask me. The only way to get one would be to buy a combo. Hence the Hartke Hydrive 210c combo amp idea in my rig . Choosing a head and then a 4x10 would just land me straight back to my beginning problem.
[/quote]

There's absolutely nothing daft about a rig with a 4x10 cab and a 1000watt head!
The Hydrive 4x10 is really light as 4x10 cabs go, it weighs about the same as the Hydrive 5210c combo.
If you really don't fancy that option, then I think the 5210c with a Hydrive 1x15 will be your best bet. That wouldn't make the 2x10 work too hard when partnered with a 1x15. It would sit nice and high and you'd get the full 500 watts when using both cabs together (but the LH1000 would use 750 watts with a single 4x10!)

If you take a look at this talkbass thread, [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/new-hartke-hydrive-5210c-combo-amp-702614/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/new-hartke-hydrive-5210c-combo-amp-702614/[/url] [size=4]the guy has a picture of the Hydrive 5210combo with a Hydrive 1x15, so you can get an idea of what it would look like. Does look like a nice little rig, I just prefer 4x10's.[/size]
I'm sure whatever option you decide on will be a lovely sounding rig. As I mentioned earlier, I love mine

Edited October 23, 2013 by Who's Who

[steve-bbb]

if the head is removable from the cab and could be placed in a 2U rack case i would stick with the head use it with a hydrive410

i use the 2500 head with a hydrive410 regularly for gigging - even when you think you cant hear it on stage above the pesky guitarists ive never had any complaints that i couldnt be heard further back in the venue

[Who's Who]

Also, when you refer to the combo's, are you talking about the old Hydrive 210C. These only have 250 watt amps in them.
The Hydrive 5210C is the newer version featuring the LH500 watt amp head.

[ChickenKiev]

[quote name='Who's Who' timestamp='1382509005' post='2252909']


There's absolutely nothing daft about a rig with a 4x10 cab and a 1000watt head!
The Hydrive 4x10 is really light as 4x10 cabs go, it weighs about the same as the Hydrive 5210c combo.
If you really don't fancy that option, then I think the 5210c with a Hydrive 1x15 will be your best bet. That wouldn't make the 2x10 work too hard when partnered with a 1x15. It would sit nice and high and you'd get the full 500 watts when using both cabs together (but the LH1000 would use 750 watts with a single 4x10!)

If you take a look at this talkbass thread, [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/new-hartke-hydrive-5210c-combo-amp-702614/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/new-hartke-hydrive-5210c-combo-amp-702614/[/url] [size=4]the guy has a picture of the Hydrive 5210combo with a Hydrive 1x15, so you can get an idea of what it would look like. Does look like a nice little rig, I just prefer 4x10's.[/size]
I'm sure whatever option you decide on will be a lovely sounding rig. As I mentioned earlier, I love mine
[/quote]

Thank you so much for that link.

That is exactly the 'look' I'm wanting to go for.

Shame it wouldn't work with a 410 instead of a 115 though .

[Who's Who]

[quote name='ChickenKiev' timestamp='1382525840' post='2253134']
Thank you so much for that link.

That is exactly the 'look' I'm wanting to go for.

Shame it wouldn't work with a 410 instead of a 115 though .
[/quote]
I know a lot of people argue against mixing speaker sizes. But my first Hartke rig was a 2x10 and a 1x15 and it sounded amazing.
I also now have an Orange 2x10 and 1x15 set up, and that also sounds brilliant. I used to have the Orange 4x10, but it was just so heavy, so I much prefer this set up with the Orange stuff now.

[sykilz]

I've owned the ha3500 head and the hydrive 210 combo, unless they changed it you couldn't run an extension cab from the combo,and mine struggled to be loud enough for a rock band, the speakers would fart out at about half volume. The 3500 head into a peavey 4x10 was simply awesome however, plenty of headroom and power and great choice of tones, so for me I'd definitely not get the hydrive combo, seperates is much better route long term, IMO.

[Who's Who]

[quote name='sykilz' timestamp='1382536837' post='2253344']
I've owned the ha3500 head and the hydrive 210 combo, unless they changed it you couldn't run an extension cab from the combo,and mine struggled to be loud enough for a rock band, the speakers would fart out at about half volume. The 3500 head into a peavey 4x10 was simply awesome however, plenty of headroom and power and great choice of tones, so for me I'd definitely not get the hydrive combo, seperates is much better route long term, IMO.
[/quote]
They now do the 5210 combo which has a Hydrive 2x10 cab with the newer LH500 head inside. They can run a second cab fine

[xgsjx]

Putting a 2x10 & a 115 isn't "matching" or "pairing". It's putting 2 different sounding cabs together.
In some venues they'll sound great & in others they wont.
The reason that mixing speaker sizes is not a good idea is that if you're moving from venue to venue, then the sound is gonna be unpredictable. Having 2 cabs the same gives you predictable results. So get a cab you like the sound of & then get a 2nd cab the same to give you more of the same.
Try the 1x15 combo, if you like it, then get the 1x15 cab to match.

[sykilz]

[quote name='Who's Who' timestamp='1382592298' post='2253990']

They now do the 5210 combo which has a Hydrive 2x10 cab with the newer LH500 head inside. They can run a second cab fine
[/quote]
Just checked that out, bet thats a lot better than the original one I had, which was 250 watt head, sounded nice but think it was limited by the small size of the cab. That with an extension should be good, though pricey.

[ChickenKiev]

Okay, it seems I've opened a real can of worms here with my question! Lots of differing opinions.

The Hartke Hydrive 5210c seems a lot more feasible than my original idea of the 210c. Seems like it would be able to handle things more if I were to add an extension cab.

A few points of housekeeping though.

Firstly, I'm unsure as to why mixing cabs seems like such a nono. Granted I'm no technical expert but just by looking at the Harke artists alone there are a few that do mix cabs; for example Victor Wooten and Geezer Butler.

I'm certain Billy Sheehan also mixes speaker sizes too, but he runs his bass in stereo with two seperate amps for each pickup. I dunno, he's that really pedantic and anal type of bassist that I just love to hate, but he seems like he knows what he's talking about half the time, even if he does go on a bit for my liking.

One last thing. I'm not pushing my amp too hard at all at the minute. I'm hardly touching the master volume on my amp, and to be honest I could probably demolish my bandmates' amps in terms of volume if I really wanted to!

The purpose of the new amp idea is ease of transportation, a new sound that will suit my needs a little better, and to a lesser extent, aesthetics.

If I were to take a 5210c combo amp and extension cab, I honestly don't think I'll be pushing the 2x10 too hard at all. Like I said, I'm no technical wizard or anything but many of you are worried that I'd be putting too much strain on the 2x10. Well, I'm not going to be cranking it to max volume. Live I'm going to be on the 3 or 4 mark .

I dunno guys, I'm really tempted to get a 4x10 instead of a 1x15. It seems like 1x15 are mainly used for bottom end stuff, but playing in a metal band I might be needing something with more mids and tremble capabilities. Granted I could just EQ differently. I dunno, haha!

Edited October 24, 2013 by ChickenKiev

[Who's Who]

If you got the 5210c and the 1x15, then no you wouldnt be working either cab to hard as 250 watts would be going into each cab. However add the combo to a 4x10, then the 2x10 would start to overwork. If you think each cab would be taking 250 watts, that means each speaker in the 2x10 would be handling 125 watts, as apposed to the 4x10, each cab is only having to handle 62.5 watts each. There is no way round it I'm afraid

[Lozz196]

Agree, the 210 will get the same power so each speaker in it will be getting double of that in the 410. However, I`ve had 2 different 210/410 stacks and as long as you use your ears, they sound very nice. I know technically it`s wrong, but unless the eq is really biased on lows, the 210 shouldn`t suffer too much and being the highest part of the rig, it`s easier to keep it in check, rather than the old 410/115 where the 115 was struggling at the bottom to a blissfully unaware bassist.