The value of buying an instrument from a shop

[ubassman]

I was in the States in Seattle at Bass NW ( which advertises itself as the biggest bass only store in the world! ) . It had an impressive selection of basses . The guy there said he was really fed up with people trying out his warehouse of amazing instruments to then go and find the same bass on line. Do people put any value on being able to try an instrument in real life or is it just about "he who is cheapest gets the business"?

[url="http://www.bassnw.com/store.htm"]http://www.bassnw.com/store.htm[/url]

Edited October 24, 2013 by ubassman

[Leen2112]

I'd like to think I support small business but sometimes you have to ask what the benefits of paying more for the same bass online. My last purchase was from Guitar Guitar which matched any internet price so that was good. Also I'd rather see and play what I was getting before I pay for it.

[neepheid]

I've been so used to having such a rubbish selection of basses in my local shops that I've done the vast majority of my bass buying at distance, either second hand or new. It bothers me not that I've not got to try it first - I know what I want these days and I can make it sounds how I want. I do my own setups. If I buy new and don't like it, it can be returned by virtue of distance selling rules. I might be out the return postage, but it would easily cost me that much in fuel (never mind my valuable time) to take a trip to the nearest place with decent music shops.

I'm not going to take a 5 hour round trip just to have a speculative rake around the shops. It's different if I'm there anyway for another reason. I bought my most recent bass in a shop having tried it out, but that's just pure luck. Got a good deal on it anyway, going online wouldn't have saved much anyway.

But to answer your specific question, no I don't tend to use shops as a trying gear out service and I'm quite happy to buy something at distance on the basis of specifications and pictures.

Edited October 24, 2013 by neepheid

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='Leen2112' timestamp='1382627580' post='2254648']
I'd like to think I support small business but sometimes you have to ask what the benefits of paying more for the same bass online. My last purchase was from Guitar Guitar which matched any internet price so that was good. [b]Also I'd rather see and play what I was getting before I pay for it.[/b]
[/quote]

That's the key difference, I'd argue. Sure, it's going to be the same [i]model [/i]online, but is it going to play the same way? A shop that takes good care of its stock will make sure the guitars are well set-up before people are allowed near them, and most of the shops I've bought from have promised that if the instrument needs adjustment within the first year, I can bring it back and they'll do it for free. Admittedly, I've never ordered a guitar online, but unless they have a similarly good policy you could end up paying back the saving you made on getting the thing setup.

That, and how often do you actually pay the cost price for the instrument in the shop? They're invariably poised to haggle if you look like you might give in and buy; even if I haven't got the price down they've always thrown cables, straps, better cases, etc at me to "sweeten the deal."

[KiOgon]

There are some shops that I wouldn't bother going in again because of their attitude & I know I'm not alone. Then there's - what shops are in your area? Down here it's not good, 12 miles to Eastbourne for Bonners, 30 miles to GAK in Brighton or 60+ miles to the Smoke.

Buying online & ordering from USA has enabled me to buy basses I just couldn't afford in this country, I'd say average 33% off UK High St. prices.

Sure - I'd be happy to support a local shop if they return the loyalty with decent stock, prices & service.

[ubassman]

After spending a good couple of hours in Bass NW I had a really good idea of the basses that I thought were right for me ( narrowed it down to about 4 !!) . Cant imagine getting the measure of instruments any other way.

[Conan]

[indent=1]Sometimes you have to ask yourself how much you want music shops to be there for when you want them. If the answer to that is "never", then go ahead and buy everything online, but don't moan when you want a music shop and they have all closed down![/indent]

[indent=1]Equally, there is an onus on the shops to provide a service. They may not be able to match the online music-warehouses for price, but that is only part of the experience of buying something. That is where a decent shop can really make itself valuable to its customers. If they can't be bothered to do that, then they deserve to fall by the wayside IMO.[/indent]

[indent=1]What's going on with this indent thing?!?! [/indent]

[Conan]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1382628424' post='2254668']
After spending a good couple of hours in Bass NW I had a really good idea of the basses that I thought were right for me ( narrowed it down to about 4 !!) . Cant imagine getting the measure of instruments any other way.
[/quote]

And that is a service that we should (in an ideal world) be prepared to pay a premium for.

[6v6]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1382627958' post='2254656']
A shop that takes good care of its stock will make sure the guitars are well set-up before people are allowed near them
[/quote]

Where can I find such a shop? IME it's a myth, the vast majority of shops stick stock straight from the box to the wall, frequently with terrible playability, and you'll only get a setup if you negotiate it as part of the deal when purchasing.

[MB1]

MB1.
Mr Neepheid
Must admit I'd not be too keen to go to the "Local" Shop if it was a 5 hr round trip away!.
...That's Not Local.

[ubassman]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1382628263' post='2254664']
Sure - I'd be happy to support a local shop if they return the loyalty with decent stock, prices & service.
[/quote]

This is exactly the problem that the shops face - do they stock up with quality instruments and act as a warehouse or do they pitch for the beginners market where little Jim wants a budget bass for his birthday ?

Shopping on line is without doubt of great value but seems to be kiss of death for many shops. Bit of a predicament really where we want to try things out ...but then also get the cheapest deal.

[ubassman]

My local shop is Real Time Music in Chesterfield, and they are pretty switched on - they guarantee to beat any price on line and they stick to it. If they are more pricey its usually only by £10 - thats not worth arguing the toss over when you get the chance to try before you buy .

Edited October 24, 2013 by ubassman

[AntLockyer]

When I wanted to buy myself a Fender bass which was a fair amount of money for me to be spending I wanted to make sure I was getting the right one. I played lots and lots in every shop I went to all over the world. The differences between them were quite marked and I do find that a lot of objects have a certain something that a supposedly identical wont.

Additionally I think that the ownership can be enhanced by memories of purchase etc.

So for me buying my bass from World Music in Nashville was absolutely better than buying an similar model online.

[ezbass]

When I went out to buy my last five string I tried about 12 different basses, some were not adjusted quite to my liking so the workshop adjusted them then and there. If it wasn't for the extensive stock I'd've not found the one that suited me best, and if that bass had not got the tweak it needed at the time I'd've not known that that was 'the one'. Kudos to Martin at The Gallery for helping me out that day. Did I buy one there and then? No, but I did go back about a week later once I'd moved on one of basses through this forum and bought it a very reasonable price. Could I have bought it cheaper online? Maybe, but I doubt it, and to be fair after all the effort put in by the shop any premium paid was more than worth it. I also had a similar helpful experience from Guitar Guitar in Epsom when I was buying my Phil Jones powered cab. I took my then current rig into their store and tried that, side by side, against the rig I had GAS for. Again I didn't buy it there and then as I needed to move my rig on to finance the new purchase, but I did go back to them despite being able to get it for a handful of £s cheaper elsewhere.

Shops can no longer operate with the laissez faire attitude they could get away with in the past, which is a good thing for John Q Punter, but if we allow them disappear then we are likely to be lumbered with the old fashioned shop attitude from the online retailers that will replace them.

Edited October 24, 2013 by ezbass

[BigRedX]

I think it depends what you want. If you are after a mass-produced instrument with a well-known brand name on the headstock then there are plenty of places to try one out first. If you want something a little bit more esoteric, then you have to hope that either one of the three specialist bass shops (The Gallery, Bass Direct or Bass Gear) carries the make you are after and actually has one of the model you want to try in stock.

For me location of the shop is important. I like The Gallery because it's an easy train and tube ride away and if it turns out that none of the instruments that I've gone there to try were for me, then there's still a million other things I can do in London. For the other two shops, if they turn out to be a bust then the rest of the day is pretty much wasted (although I'm hoping that Bass Gear is a bit more convenient in it's new location rather than Harrogate).

However as I said in another thread, the last time I actually got to try a bass before I bought it, I sold it within 6 months which is the shortest time I've ever owned any musical instrument. Also it's been quite a while since I last bought any instrument that would have cost less than $1000 new full retail, so in that price bracket the main reason I won't like a bass is because it doesn't suit me rather than it's crap.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1382628607' post='2254677']
Where can I find such a shop? IME it's a myth, the vast majority of shops stick stock straight from the box to the wall, frequently with terrible playability, and you'll only get a setup if you negotiate it as part of the deal when purchasing.
[/quote]

This is a good point...I often forget how good I have it in the capital! I've now bought four instruments from the various shops on Denmark Street, and generally they've been in excellent condition, and the good service I described above.

I know what you mean, though: I have been down to one of the huge shops down in Surrey, and I did find that most of the cheaper basses were all set up badly. Don't know whether they'd paid more attention to the expensive ones, or if they'd just been shipped like that. But then if they're the only notable guitar shop for maybe 30 miles, they obviously don't feel they have to worry too much. (On the other hand, I found their customer service very accommodating.)

[Lowender]

It's the state of the economy in both the U.S and the U.K. It is no longer privately market driven. You can't blame the consumer for wanting the best price. Is it our responsibility to keep a small store in business? If they provide a service you can't get elsewhere I understand it, but that often isn't the case.

[Happy Jack]

Not wishing to de-rail the topic, but when I want to check out rare & exotic (or just plain old expensive) basses I don't go to a shop ... I go to Basschat.

If you spend any decent amount of time on this site, you will end up knowing people who own just about everything and who will (usually / often / invariably) be happy to welcome you into their lovely home and let you play with their toys.

As to deciding which of several instruments will work best in the band(s) I play in, I would never try to do that either in a shop or at a show. The only place you can do that is in the band.

[Twigman]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1382629710' post='2254704']
I think it depends what you want. If you are after a mass-produced instrument with a well-known brand name on the headstock then there are plenty of places to try one out first.
[/quote]

They vary in weight and feel so much that I'd far prefer to buy the exact instrument that makes me decide I want one of them than leave it to chance on an interweb purchase.

That said I have only ever bought one bass from a shop. The others I have had were either given to me or made using components sourced on the web (albeit I did know the exact weight of each body before I bought them).

[neepheid]

[quote name='MB1' timestamp='1382628634' post='2254678']
MB1.
Mr Neepheid
Must admit I'd not be too keen to go to the "Local" Shop if it was a 5 hr round trip away!.
...That's Not Local.
[/quote]

I should clarify - there are two music shops within walking distance of me, but their bass sections are the mere slightest nod to the fact that basses actually exist. The only places in Scotland worth a damn for basses are in Edinburgh and Glasgow (and Glasgow is better than Edinburgh in my experience).

KiOgon - I would love to only have to travel the distances you quoted to find some decent bass action

[dmccombe7]

[sup]I would rather try before i buy altho i bought my Jazz from GAK during their sale. Its mass-produced and i knew i would get a reasonable if not great bass which i could make fine adjustments to suit my style. I already knew how the jazz bass sounded. With my other basses i have always tried them before buying even my custom 6 stringer i tried same style of basses with Overwater before settling on my exact version. It took me months of trials in 80's before i settled on my Warwick Thumb which was the bass i wanted from the start anyways but needed to convince myself their was nothing better on the market that i would prefer.[/sup]
[sup]I did buy a new WAL custom fretless late 70's which i ordered before trying and it had a dead spot on g string altho on hindsight was probably something that could have been sorted with a bit more knowledge and experience of basses. I was only 18ish.. [/sup]

[sup]Dave [/sup]

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1382630403' post='2254713']
Not wishing to de-rail the topic, but when I want to check out rare & exotic (or just plain old expensive) basses I don't go to a shop ... I go to Basschat.

If you spend any decent amount of time on this site, you will end up knowing people who own just about everything and who will (usually / often / invariably) be happy to welcome you into their lovely home and let you play with their toys.

As to deciding which of several instruments will work best in the band(s) I play in, I would never try to do that either in a shop or at a show. The only place you can do that is in the band.
[/quote]
+1
[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1382631042' post='2254725']
I should clarify - there are two music shops within walking distance of me, but their bass sections are the mere slightest nod to the fact that basses actually exist. The only places in Scotland worth a damn for basses are in Edinburgh and Glasgow (and Glasgow is better than Edinburgh in my experience).

KiOgon - I would love to only have to travel the distances you quoted to find some decent bass action
[/quote] Glasgow is a lot better. Red dog in edinburgh is nice but lots and lots more bass shops in glasgow.

[KiOgon]

A few years back - I wanted a Aerodyne Jazz. Shop A - 12 miles away, I went in, tried a few alternatives but having already decided on the Aerodyne - placed an order for one. All the details - in the order book, waited a fortnight - nothing. 'Phoned up - ah, er, um, we can't actually place your order until we get enough to meet the minimum order quantity from Fender UK. "Why didn't you tell me 2 weeks ago?" Huge amounts of bullshit, we will order it in the next day or 2.
2 weeks later I phoned again, ah, er, um, who did you speak to before? I can't see it in the order book!! I'll have to find out what's going on & get back to you. No return call. Next weekend I went into the shop, put up with the monkeys for 1/2 an hour then demanded they find me some one who knew what they were talking about. The manager appeared, stroppy k_nt, said it couldn't have been ordered because he couldn't find find any record of me paying a deposit! I very nearly exploded no-one had mentioned anything about a deposit, I'd been fcuked about for nearly 6 weeks. I let them know in no uncertain terms - they had just lost a very good customer!

Shop B, 30 miles away - had a Aerodyne at a good price on their website, I 'phoned them up, asked all the right questions & arranged to go the next day to try it. When I walked in to the bass department & saw it on a stand I couldn't believe it, the price ticket was about £200 more than online price & it was covered in fingermarks, snot & smeg as well by the look of it. When I asked about the price, the story was the shop prices were marked up for 'credit card buyers' but they could knock some off for cash, no mention of the advertised online price & they had no idea how I was going to pay!. In reply to the state of it, the guy said I'll get a cloth & give it a rub I said if you had done that before I came (as arranged yesterday) it might have been OK - but they didn't! I asked to try it through a amp & was directed towards a '£35' practise amp - I said no - a real amp, which they couldn't do because the 'bass guy' wasn't there!
I almost threw the bass back at them & walked out.

That's the level of customer care I found in 2 major retailers within my range. It's no wonder I buy online now, save all that aggravation & I've not had any problems.

[ubassman]

Are the 2 shops still trading I wonder (they didn't ought to be with customer service like that).

[skej21]

From what I've seen, people are happy to walk in, spend an hour or two of someone's time, expertise and advice for free, try to haggle and bend staff over a barrel before walking out and buying it online because it was a tiny bit cheaper. Last time I was in a guy wanted 20 off a £100 harmonica. The guy offered him it for £84 as that was the lowest he could go and the guy walked out saying 'what a joke, I'll just get it online'. I suppose that's just the way the world is these days!