From Bass Guitar, to EUB

[matt-bass-sparkes]

I have just purchased a 3/4 sized EUB.

I have been fascinated with Upright Basses for a while now.

I am so pleased to finally own one.

Considering the differences in the way that the instrument is held, and the longer/larger fingerboard scale, I think that I am doing rather well.

I have been a bass-guitarist for 15 years, and obviously, I have perfected my left had technique (I'm right-handed).

I have read, and been told that I should not use my ring finger when fretting notes....however, I find that it's easier for me to use it......is this a big NO-NO in the Upright Bass world, or is it something that can be considered personal preference?

I'm finding my around the fingerboard in terms of intonation and speed by playing various songs from my "function gigs" repertoire.

It feels quite familiar to be getting started with this, but will people notice that I'm "playing it like a bass-guitarist" and will this is some way void me from future work? Should I even care?!

Many thanks

Matt

[artisan]

No
Just play it & enjoy it matey.
Thats what i do with my DB & don't give a damn what anyone else thinks.
P.s.

Edited October 25, 2013 by artisan

[ChrisF]

[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1382715169' post='2255857']
No
Just play it & enjoy it matey.
Thats what i do with my DB & don't give a damn what anyone else thinks.
P.s.
[/quote]

^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^

[fatback]

i think you'll find most experts say no third finger until you get up to the top half of the board.

Having said that, if you're a bass guitar player who uses one finger per fret [i]and a pivoting thumb[/i], you might be interested in the Rabbath technique. I reckon it saved me two years of development time.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54pMdTCmo8g[/media]

First a disclaimer - I'm a beginner, not a teacher.

The problem with the Rabbath method is that, imo at least, no book or vid presents it clearly for beginners. The Sturm vids above are a good start though.

Here are what I see as the critical points:

1. Rabbath is not about one finger per fret. You use your third finger (in lower positions) to reinforce your little finger. It is about [i]pivoting [/i]off the thumb so you get two tones in a span[i]. [/i]Pivoting allows you to play octave scales etc without shifting position.

2. Most important of all, unlike pivoting with bass guitar, you restrict your thumb positions on the neck to three - beside G, A and B on the E string (I use four, adding F#, as my hands are small). The point of this is to minimise the amount of arm shifting that goes on, these being the source of most intonation problems.

3. Absolute accuracy in thumb placement is the key to the whole method. The thumb should never be any place other than the set positions. If you get thumb placement right, your intonation will always be spot on. Your arm only has to learn a couple of critical distances, so it's easy to practice and get right.

4. You don't get hung up on fingering or take fingering prescriptions literally. You have loads of fingering choices, the main choice is about the best pivot points to play any particular passage.

5. You don't have to ignore Simandl; that's just one more possibility. But your brain will hurt less.

Of course the Rabbath method involves loads more than this, but for a bass guitarist who thinks in pivoting terms, this is a glorious shortcut for upright. All you have to do to adjust is change the way you use the third finger and reduce the number of thumb positions you use to pivot off.

Downsides? Few teachers will teach Rabbath, and the available materials (even the expensive 'Art of the Left Hand' video) aren't very good.

Edited October 25, 2013 by fatback

[ubassman]

Try this

Get a 2b pencil and mark the first three frets on the fingerboard. Now try and hit those notes one fret per finger without moving your hand ! You will just be able to get your 1st finger on first "fret", 2nd finger on second "fret" ....and 4th finger on 3rd "fret". However notice that the third finger is in limbo between 2nd and 4th finger at fret 2[sub][sup]1/2 [/sup][/sub]!

This highlights the problem of moving around and intonation. However theres a more sinister problem of risking getting an RSI type injury if you overstretch the 3rd finger which is very easy to do particularly in the low positions - it has much weaker muscle structure than the other fingers.

Edited October 25, 2013 by ubassman

[Hector]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1382719420' post='2255956']
Try this

Get a 2b pencil and mark the first three frets on the fingerboard. Now try and hit those notes one fret per finger without moving your hand ! YOu may just be able to get your 1st finger on first "fret", 2nd finger on second "fret" and 4th finger on 3rd "fret". The third finger is in limbo between 2nd and 4th finger.

This highlights the problem of moving around and intonation . However theres a more sinister problem of risking getting an RSI type injury if you overstretch the 3rd finger which is very easy to do particularly in the low positions - it has much weaker muscle structure than the other fingers.
[/quote]


This time a million. Get a solid foundation in Simandl technique first.

Some, me included, will use 1-2-3-4 in the neck break area (pretty rarely), but even then it's not the same as EB fingering. It's not really about pressing down with a semitone distance between each finger, with each finger always pressing on the string. It's more about rolling the hand to transfer pressure from finger to finger.

[ubassman]

And if you want to explore the limitations of the 3rd finger try this three step experiment ...

1/. Match the fingertips (and thumb) of your left hand with your right - you should have a dome shape.

2/. Now expand the dome as big as possible by stretching the fingers (widen between fingers) -This mimics the "fretting" hand low down on the fingerboard where the notes are widest.

3/. Keep all fingertips in contact with each other but now working in pairs, separate the first fingers and see how big a gap you can make between them ( maybe 4 - 5 inches). Reform the dome and do the same with the 2nd fingers ( perhaps a slightly smaller gap ), reform the dome and do it with the 4th fingers ( 5 - 6 inches separation ) ...finally try it with the 3rd finger ( 1 - 2 inches separation?). Make sure that the dome is as big as possible each time you do this - remember its to simulate "fretting " hand on the DB fingerboard on the lowest reaches.


The muscles behind the 3rd finger are weaker than the other fingers and you have to press much harder to hold down a note .

[jimbobothy]

Lol, I just tried the above thing and it's true, not much of a gap with the ring fingers!!

[stingrayPete1977]

I have been here less than a year ago, my playing improved over night once I started to get to grips with the correct fingering, watch Geoffs discover double bass lessons and go from there

[Rabbie]

+1 to ubassman and hector.
Although the notes are in the same order, the double bass is a completely different instrument. Honestly, you'd be much better off investing in some time learning to playing DB like a DB. Get a teacher for a couple of lessons, even just have some online lessons with the brilliant 'Discover Double Bass' website, run by fellow basschatter Geoff (+1 to Pete on this). With a EUB, being amplified and having very low action, you can get away with the "just playing bass guitar vertically" trick. However, if you want to graduate to DB, you will find yourself struggling with tuning, injury and quite simply being heard. You don't need to go all philharmonic: just treat the DB like a DB.

[SevenSeas]

[quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1382914064' post='2258061']
+1 to ubassman and hector.
Although the notes are in the same order, the double bass is a completely different instrument. Honestly, you'd be much better off investing in some time learning to playing DB like a DB. Get a teacher for a couple of lessons, even just have some online lessons with the brilliant 'Discover Double Bass' website, run by fellow basschatter Geoff (+1 to Pete on this). With a EUB, being amplified and having very low action, you can get away with the "just playing bass guitar vertically" trick. However, if you want to graduate to DB, you will find yourself struggling with tuning, injury and quite simply being heard. You don't need to go all philharmonic: just treat the DB like a DB.
[/quote]

Have to agree with these guys too,

The double bass and electric are completely different instruments, I strongly recommend Simandl method but it's a tough book to go through, the exercises can be very atonal.

That being said, if you learn the instrument the 'proper' way you will improve a lot quicker. It's hard at first but it will all fall into place, find a good teacher or use Geoff (Discover Double Bass) lessons they're brilliant.

[jakenewmanbass]

The muscle memory movements your hand, wrist, arm, shoulder neck and neural pathways have learned for BG are not likely to sustain you for the rigours of serious ability on the DB.
Plenty get away with rubbish technique, a large number of them in my experience have a low skill level.
Much worse is there are many people who've taken the 'have a go, but not really properly' that end up with injuries.
It's a major undertaking for the muscles and some of the ones in use are quite delicate.
I don't want to put you off at all, so I'd recommend having fun learning something new, rise to the challenge of the differences and realise what a help the elements of BG you have learned can be.
Enjoy.

[size=2](have a few lessons)[/size]

Edited October 28, 2013 by jakenewmanbass

[geoffbassist]

Hey Matt, I would agree with everyone one here that that the very best thing you could do would be to get at least one lesson (ideally a few) with a double bass tutor. It would be the best investment in time and money you could make as in one lesson you could learn a lot of really essential stuff. It's such a different feeling than playing electric and its better to ensure you are practising the right way from the start.

I really appreciate the great feedback about my video lessons too guys Treat them like a book, you will learn information, but you can't be corrected or interact with them. That's why lessons in person with someone will be really useful and give you a great start. The main challenge I find with EUB's is learning to use arm weight in the right way as it can be hard to do on such a small instrument. That's why it really pays to see someone in person as there are so many variables with DB and with EUB the differences are even bigger. E.G some EUB's don't have a body frame, some are on stands, some are light etc.....and of course your own size and shape makes it even more complicated.

There are loads of great teachers on Basschat (Like Jake) or if you struggle to find someone, just try to hook up with someone who's been playing a while to get some feedback.

.....oh and congratulations on buying your first upright! I really hope you enjoy it and if you need any help Basschat is an amazing resource.