r16ktx Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 My understanding (and 2p) is that watts measure power and decibels measure volume and they are related by the speaker/cab sensitivity, also different frequencies are perceived differently wrt volume, so all this discussion about volume and watts is fairly redundant as every person/bass/amp/cab combination is different (thankfully :-) p.s. I just bought a rh750 and put it thru some cab at the practice room with a loudish drummer and only needed a third of the master range (if that helps) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1383301807' post='2262757'] My 'grunt' = WOT's 'substance'. [/quote] Pics or it didn't happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1389126238' post='2330429'] My understanding (and 2p) is that watts measure power and decibels measure volume and they are related by the speaker/cab sensitivity, also different frequencies are perceived differently wrt volume, so all this discussion about volume and watts is fairly redundant as every person/bass/amp/cab combination is different (thankfully :-) p.s. I just bought a rh750 and put it thru some cab at the practice room with a loudish drummer and only needed a third of the master range (if that helps) [/quote] +1 The RH750 is the same watts as the RH450, 236. The volume increments on an amp are different depending on the signal from whatever bass is being used. How far an amp will go isn't measured by a dial on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CXIII Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I have the rh750 which i use in a death metal band. I used to pair it with a Schroeder 1212l (which is listed in the for sale forum) and it was stupidly loud against a hard hitting drummer and two guitarists. Never go past the 4th notch for rehearsal and gigs. It's a great 'one lift' set up. The features of the rh750 are also excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1389165562' post='2330710'] The RH750 is the same watts as the RH450 [/quote] Really?! Surely I would have thought the 750 had more power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1389169361' post='2330742'] Really?! Surely I would have thought the 750 had more power? [/quote] Apparantly it is louder, but uses the same power section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1389171716' post='2330763'] Apparantly it is louder, but uses the same power section. [/quote] Not the same power section, but it is 'limited' and 'tested by the Bass Gear Mag' at 236w. Testing wattages in these types of magazines can lead to all sorts of issues being brought up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt on your Bass? Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 This was TC's response doc when bassgear started all the fuss a while a back that demonstrates how they rate their amps and manage the power to achieve volume. Pretty interesting, although took me a couple of reads in places to understand [url="http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/914735/tc_electronic_bass_amp_power_rating___active_power_management.pdf"]http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/914735/tc_electronic_bass_amp_power_rating___active_power_management.pdf[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Once I've decided an amp is loud enough and sounds how I want it to sound I don't care about the numbers in the marketing blurb. I had a RH750 and sold it. Plenty loud enough but wasn't the sound I was looking for. Now I'm Genz powered and am very happy. Still plenty loud enough and it has the sound I wanted. I'd love one of those much lower wattage (ahem) Mesa Prodigy things but they are about £1000 overpriced so it won't be happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 BG didn't start the fuss. A bunch of Talkbass users, seemingly with an axe to grind, made all the noise. The fuss about the power module was laughable, but one good thing came out. The RH750 can run at 2.7 ohms which means that you can run 3 of anyone's cabs. If you want to run a modular rig, (as I did, up to 3 x 112’s) that's a big advantage. The RH750 is as loud as any 750 watt amp on the market so the internal workings are irrelevant. I had one and it was very loud and with good features. I only sold it to fund my Thunderfunk. As with amps of any make the bottom line is are they loud enough and do you like their tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1389179301' post='2330862'] BG didn't start the fuss. A bunch of Talkbass users, seemingly with an axe to grind, made all the noise. The fuss about the power module was laughable, but one good thing came out. The RH750 can run at 2.7 ohms which means that you can run 3 of anyone's cabs. If you want to run a modular rig, (as I did, up to 3 x 112’s) that's a big advantage. The RH750 is as loud as any 750 watt amp on the market so the internal workings are irrelevant. I had one and it was very loud and with good features. I only sold it to fund my Thunderfunk. As with amps of any make the bottom line is are they loud enough and do you like their tone. [/quote] I don't think 'axe griders' is a fair description. I think it was a bit of a push for manufacturers to be a bit more honest with their ratings in a way that, say, EBS are. It's also worth noting that that RH750 costs over £200 more than the RH450. You have to ask yourself what exactly you're paying the extra for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1389180382' post='2330889'] I don't think 'axe griders' is a fair description. I think it was a bit of a push for manufacturers to be a bit more honest with their ratings in a way that, say, EBS are. It's also worth noting that that RH750 costs over £200 more than the RH450. You have to ask yourself what exactly you're paying the extra for. [/quote] An extra 300 RHs obviously! Duh! And can I just say, getting each extra RH for only about 65 pence must be a bargain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt on your Bass? Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1389180382' post='2330889'] It's also worth noting that that RH750 costs over £200 more than the RH450. You have to ask yourself what exactly you're paying the extra for. [/quote] About 1.5dB?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='Salt on your Bass?' timestamp='1389181531' post='2330913'] About 1.5dB?? [/quote] Which is half as loud again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 You like a product or you don't, end of story, but axe grinding, trolling and general wind-ups was exactly what was going on in TB at that time. The cost and price point of the product wasn't part of the issue and as always is down to what the manufacturer decides the market will support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1389181970' post='2330920'] You like a product or you don't, end of story, but axe grinding, trolling and general wind-ups was exactly what was going on in TB at that time. [/quote] I can't help thinking they brought that on themselves. Once I found out what was going on under the bonnet, how I felt about the amp based on my experience made perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1389181970' post='2330920'] The cost and price point of the product wasn't part of the issue and as always is down to what the manufacturer decides the market will support. [/quote] ..and I think you'll find a few RH750 owners were a bit miffed when they found out they were paying a lot more for minimal component changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I find it a prime example as to how much watts relate to volume - very little. It wouldn't stop me buying a TC head. THey certainly look cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 The other tweak of course was to the high end the amp could provide. It no longer had the low pass filter which stopped some of the more modern sparkly tones getting through. This was also made variable. I'm not sure what I paid for my RH450 but I didn't pay much more for a new 750...they are of course now more expensive down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r16ktx Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1389180676' post='2330897'] An extra 300 RHs obviously! Duh! And can I just say, getting each extra RH for only about 65 pence must be a bargain! [/quote] And now I spat coffee over the monitor - thx! Although comparing the operation and features of the pre-amp/comp/eq/etc parts of the RHs indicates to me they are very different products don't see what this obsession with watts is about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1389180382' post='2330889'] You have to ask yourself what exactly you're paying the extra for. [/quote] Dedicated compressor control - no longer hidden in the shift layer More power (obviously) Improved top end without the build in LPF. Mind you, having just double checked the front/rear panels of the RH450/750 (to compare) makes me wonder if *anyone* has ever used the AES/EBU digital output? I know I haven't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='Alec' timestamp='1389195091' post='2331169'] Dedicated compressor control - no longer hidden in the shift layer More power (obviously) Improved top end without the build in LPF. [/quote] I know about the features, but I was asking about what, physically, you're paying for. Surely it shouldn't cost [i]more[/i] money to remove an LPF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1389195264' post='2331171'] ....Surely it shouldn't cost [i]more[/i] money to remove an LPF?.... [/quote] And surely the number of components is the least relevant concern to most of us when buying an amp, or anything else for that matter. Unless of course the afore mentioned axe grinding comes into play. Edited January 8, 2014 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1389197095' post='2331210'] And surely the number of components is the least relevant concern to most of us when buying an amp, or anything else for that matter. Unless of course the afore mentioned axe grinding comes into play. [/quote] I disagree. I think it added to the cynical way it was marketed. ("You want your top-end back? £200, please!'). Like I say, I don't think they did themselves any favours. Disappointing for a brand as strong as TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I think the LPF is actually a cmos setting or something since I read somewhere that there was a an internal development tool that could connect to the RH series heads to alter settings like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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