How do Squier do it?

[Thebassman75]

Morning,

I'm extremely lucky to own a few great vintage fender basses but when I came across a Squier Deluxe Jazz IV, I had to snap it up. Played though the standard Ashdown combo, this thing had so much tone variation and played so well that I could genuinely say, hand on heart, that I could sell all my other basses and still gig/record with this one. The fact that I won't do that isn't really relevant here ( ) BUT I genuinely don't know how brands like Squier do it..

The cynical git inside me thinks it must be a combination of global economics and exploitation on the part of the workers but then I'm thinking that perhaps its just a bad reflection on the US models, with a market driven by nostalgia linked to history and fashion. I've read quite a few threads here from people saying that they don't understand how Fender charge so much for a mass-produced instrument and certainly for new stuff, even if I'd paid the full list price of £255 for this Squier, I'm starting to agree. I'm not a Fender hater at all (quite the opposite) but when it comes down to it, if I can pick up a bass, plug it in and get great tone and playability, what more do I need to do my job?

When I was starting out, living in bedsits and moving around alot, I always tried to bare in mind that if I needed to get out of somewhere fast, I needed to make sure that all my stuff went into my car. 20 years on and that ain't NEVER gonna happen BUT if I did have to go back to that then I could do far worse than grab my Ashdown MiBass and this Squier..

Edited December 3, 2013 by Thebassman75

[skidder652003]

well Im lucky enough to own an 82 JV squier which in its day was a budget alternative to the fender. The fact that these have become a bit collectable probably tells you all you need to know about the squier brand and their quality control. I know theres a few dogs out there (like fenders) but by and large they're quality kit on a shoestring budget.

[action_panzer]

I know what you mean dude. I've been playing a StingRay for 10 years and never thought I'd want anything else, to the extent that I sold my backup MIM Jazz (I wasn't gigging a lot at the time). Then I started doing lots of gigs again and realised I needed a cheap backup, and had always kinda fancied a Prescision, well blow me I wandered into Wunjo one day, saw a Squier Affinity P Bass for £180 brand new, bought it after a 2 minute run through.

The thing is light, playable, cheap enough to not worry about, and it sounds FANTASTIC through my ampeg gear. So much so that in the last 6 weeks I've been using it exclusively and relegating the StingRay to backup!

Fantastic basses.

[cameltoe]

Wait til you try the Classic Vibe series! Brilliant basses for the money, although prices have crept up recently.

[leroydiamond]

Any idea what weight the Squier deluxe jazz come in at?

[Lowender]

The Squier Deluxe is really unique and if they stop making them (which they may) they'll be regarded as one of the great "forgotten" models.

How do they do it? Well...

The most obvious answer is the labor cost. But I also think Squier is attempting to make more than good budget instruments and delving into really fine instruments. (Such as the Deluxe and CV's). I also think the work ethic in Asia is far better than in Mexico (go ahead, call me racist) and the quality control is superior as well.

FYI, the ebonol neck on the Deluxe is a form of graphite that is used to make bowling balls! It's GREAT -- [i]VERY[/i] similar to ebony, but with a glassier high end and hard as diamond which helps create a more stable neck. That, matched wite the powerful punch of those pips (whatever they are). Makes for an amazingly clear sound.

The bass doesn't have a ton of tonal variety, but what it does, it does very well.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Lowender

[skydivepaul]

Taken from a post i replied to yesterday

I tried out several fenders yesterday in my local music shop, I ran out of time before i got to the jaguar bass to try so I need to get back there and try it


BUT I did try out the modern player jazz bass which is made in china and it was really good.
My findings on what i tried yesterday:

Fender usa deluxe jass bass - natural finish £1500 ish: playability=awesome 10/10 sound / tone = awesome 10/10
Fender MIM jazz bass - sunburst £650 ish: playability = average 6/10 sound / tone = average 7/10
Fender modern player jazz bass - sunburst £400 ish : playability good 8/10 sound / tone = very good 8.5/10
Squier VM jazz bass - natural £250 ish : playability very good 9/10 sound / tone = average 7/10

These are just my humble opinion based on me paying hard cash for one of the above. I wish i could justify the £1500 for the deluxe bass but that isnt going to happen this year
disapointed with the MIM bass just not as good as either the modern player or squier
I wish the modern player played a bit better as the squier

still undecided!!

[cameltoe]

The CV '50's P bass I had was a very fine instrument- the only thing that put me off was the collosal amount of poly that was coated over the neck.

[icastle]

Labour costs account for about 30% of a businesses expenditure on average.

Slice that down, use cheaper materials and relax QC to reduce wastage and you're about there.

[Thebassman75]

[quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1383397492' post='2264024']
Any idea what weight the Squier deluxe jazz come in at?
[/quote]

The bass comes in at a respectable 8.25lbs BUT not as light as my '78 P-Bass at a whopping 7.55lbs!

[bonzodog]

[quote name='skydivepaul' timestamp='1383400930' post='2264074']
Taken from a post i replied to yesterday

I tried out several fenders yesterday in my local music shop, I ran out of time before i got to the jaguar bass to try so I need to get back there and try it


BUT I did try out the modern player jazz bass which is made in china and it was really good.
My findings on what i tried yesterday:

Fender usa deluxe jass bass - natural finish £1500 ish: playability=awesome 10/10 sound / tone = awesome 10/10
Fender MIM jazz bass - sunburst £650 ish: playability = average 6/10 sound / tone = average 7/10
Fender modern player jazz bass - sunburst £400 ish : playability good 8/10 sound / tone = very good 8.5/10
Squier VM jazz bass - natural £250 ish : playability very good 9/10 sound / tone = average 7/10

These are just my humble opinion based on me paying hard cash for one of the above. I wish i could justify the £1500 for the deluxe bass but that isnt going to happen this year
disapointed with the MIM bass just not as good as either the modern player or squier
I wish the modern player played a bit better as the squier

still undecided!!
[/quote]

I adore my Modern Player. I picked up a bargain at PMT as I had the last one of the stock without the pick up selector which I prefer anyway. I prefer to use the volume controls on each pickup rather than have a switch. Only cost me £320 brand new

[Jah Wibble]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1383397164' post='2264018']
Wait til you try the Classic Vibe series! Brilliant basses for the money, although prices have crept up recently.
[/quote]

+1

[gjones]

Fender is not a healthy company. Recent plans for the company to sell shares to the public were shelved because of concerns about the companies viability. The Squiers and Fenders made in China, Indonesia, etc have the Fender logo on them because Fender have licenced the name to factories that were already making Fender copies. Fender will get a very small percentage of the sales on these instruments. Fender only make a profit margin of 3% on the guitars and basses they produce themselves, so I assume they will make even less profit on instruments made by other companies, that they have licencing agreements with, in the far east.

Globalisation capiltalises on cheap labour and bad conditions. That is why your Squier is so cheap. They may be paid 'Western' rates of pay, which is much more than factory workers in Indonesia, but I doubt the staff at the factory in Corona are driving around in brand new Cadillacs.

Sad tale of Fenders woes [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/business/fender-aims-to-stay-plugged-in-amid-changing-music-trends.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0"]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/business/fender-aims-to-stay-plugged-in-amid-changing-music-trends.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0[/url]

Edited November 2, 2013 by gjones

[Thebassman75]

Thanks GJones, I'll check that link out later. I've got quite a few thoughts on the subject but need to spend some time getting my thoughts arranged.. :-)

[skydivepaul]

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1383425876' post='2264446']


I adore my Modern Player. I picked up a bargain at PMT as I had the last one of the stock without the pick up selector which I prefer anyway. I prefer to use the volume controls on each pickup rather than have a switch. Only cost me £320 brand new
[/quote]

Yes the modern player is at the top of the list still
The one I tried in Dawson's was great and it was one of the older models with the two volumes and tone control. However it was up for sale at £428 so not a bargain like you had

[Thebassman75]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1383427120' post='2264465']
Fender is not a healthy company. Recent plans for the company to sell shares to the public were shelved because of concerns about the companies viability. The Squiers and Fenders made in China, Indonesia, etc have the Fender logo on them because Fender have licenced the name to factories that were already making Fender copies. Fender will get a very small percentage of the sales on these instruments. Fender only make a profit margin of 3% on the guitars and basses they produce themselves, so I assume they will make even less profit on instruments made by other companies, that they have licencing agreements with, in the far east.

Globalisation capiltalises on cheap labour and bad conditions. That is why your Squier is so cheap. They may be paid 'Western' rates of pay, which is much more than factory workers in Indonesia, but I doubt the staff at the factory in Corona are driving around in brand new Cadillacs.

Sad tale of Fenders woes [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/business/fender-aims-to-stay-plugged-in-amid-changing-music-trends.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0"]http://www.nytimes.c...gewanted=1&_r=0[/url]
[/quote]

Great article.

Given what's happening with Squier JV's etc.. and the way that Fender is going, could there really be a point where Squier takes over the 'new' market fro Fender style basses? A few years ago, this would've been a ridiculous notion but now?

[steve-bbb]

here's mine

150 preloved from manny's music



and 170 preloved from lovely basschat

Edited November 3, 2013 by steve-bbb

[Thebassman75]

Manny's Music? Are you a Medway lad Steve-bbb??

[gjones]

[quote name='Thebassman75' timestamp='1383468348' post='2264651']
Great article.

Given what's happening with Squier JV's etc.. and the way that Fender is going, could there really be a point where Squier takes over the 'new' market fro Fender style basses? A few years ago, this would've been a ridiculous notion but now?
[/quote]

I wonder what percentage of Fender Guitars and basses are US built instruments. I'm sure it's pretty small compared to instruments manufactured elsewhere. I realise that the instruments built in the Far East and Mexico are getting better and better, and can compete with the quality of those built in the US. But it would be sad if Fender closed down the USA factory because they couldn't compete on costs.

[Thebassman75]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1383479684' post='2264804']
I wonder what percentage of Fender Guitars and basses are US built instruments. I'm sure it's pretty small compared to instruments manufactured elsewhere. I realise that the instruments built in the Far East and Mexico are getting better and better, and can compete with the quality of those built in the US. But it would be sad if Fender closed down the USA factory because they couldn't compete on costs.
[/quote]

I think it's true that you do pay a premium for US made instruments. I can't figure out why you would, except that if the product is much better, you should pay for quality regardless of where it's made. However, the issue here is that the Far East ARE catching up, and fast. The heritage and brand name can only carry Fender so far, as was evidenced in the 70's for all the major players. I think it's interesting to note that there is of course a shift in how music is made and I'm more interested in whether the company can keep up with innovation. To his credit, Henry J of Gibson has at least tried to innovate with the Robot guitars and the Firebird X, and its debatable to say whether they've worked yet but he does believe that Gibson needs to keep pushing the boundaries in order to honour the heritage of the company that created the Flying V/Firebird/ etc..

A Fender Precision is a beautiful thing and there's an argument to say that Leo got it right first time but hell, there's so many of them around and when you COULD gig on a Squier Affinity compared to a Custom Shop, is there a sufficiently large enough 'growing' demand for more Precision basses in the world to keep the company afloat??

Sad times indeed

[iconic]

Serious question but do squier actually have any factories....isn't all production subbed out?

[Thebassman75]

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1383505073' post='2265220']
Serious question but do squier actually have any factories....isn't all production subbed out?
[/quote]

Good question.. I'd never thought of that.

[redstriper]

The CVs are made in a factory in China by a separate company.
Their own brand is Farida and they are excellent quality, very well built instruments.

I think the VMs are made in the same Indonesian factory that produces Cort, Ibanez and other brands.
I sold my Mex Fender when I got a CV Jazz and I sold the CV when I got a Farida Jazz.
The Farida is closer to a US Fender and it shows the quality available in Chinese instruments.

I also have a VM Jazz and it is very good, but again not as good as the Farida.

[Thebassman75]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1383507974' post='2265280']
The CVs are made in a factory in China by a separate company.
Their own brand is Farida and they are excellent quality, very well built instruments.

I think the VMs are made in the same Indonesian factory that produces Cort, Ibanez and other brands.
I sold my Mex Fender when I got a CV Jazz and I sold the CV when I got a Farida Jazz.
The Farida is closer to a US Fender and it shows the quality available in Chinese instruments.

I also have a VM Jazz and it is very good, but again not as good as the Farida.
[/quote]

Are you talking about these guys?

http://www.faridaguitars.co.uk/bass/

[skydivepaul]

[quote name='Thebassman75' timestamp='1383555676' post='2265680']


Are you talking about these guys?

http://www.faridaguitars.co.uk/bass/
[/quote]

Are these still available?
A few google searches and they don't appear to be available anywhere