JV gas...

[cameltoe]

Don't listen to drummers!

[Donnyboy]

Boom-tish!

[drTStingray]

I'm with Dingus on this.

These were entry level basses back in the 80s at a time when the demand for Fender basses had all but collapsed. Combination of shift to keyboards instead of guitars and basses in pop music plus a vast array of superb product from other manufacturers - eg Yamaha, Ibanez etc etc etc.

I see the Fullerton RI 80s Fenders are selling in vintage shops for just short of a grand also!! In the 80s people would be paying about £1000 for things like a Steinburger.

You really would have been in danger of being sectioned paying these prices......... What will happen when the bubble bursts?? You are surely safer buying a US standard or maybe a vintage reissue?

Edited November 3, 2013 by drTStingray

[Dingus]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1383494858' post='2265015']
I'm with Dingus on this.

These were entry level basses back in the 80s at a time when the demand for Fender basses had all but collapsed. Combination of shift to keyboards instead of guitars and basses in pop music plus a vast array of superb product from other manufacturers - eg Yamaha, Ibanez etc etc etc.

I see the Fullerton RI 80s Fenders are selling in vintage shops for just short of a grand also!! In the 80s people would be paying about £1000 for things like a Steinburger.

You really would have been in danger of being sectioned paying these prices......... What will happen when the bubble bursts?? You are surely safer buying a US standard or maybe a vintage reissue?
[/quote]

I can actually remember when those Fullerton reissues came out and they got some lousy reviews in the press , saying that they weren't as good as the (then) recent equivalents from Squier and Tokai . People can get nostalgic for [i][u]anything [/u][/i], and the so-called vintage guitar market is a testament to that , by and large. Bear in mind that , as Im sure dr T will also concur, generally speaking , basses are better made nowadays than they were thirty years ago . Manufacturing techniques, hardware and the expected standards of fit and finish for instruments are far more developed nowadays than i the days before such great consumer choice . For a whole host of reasons , manufacturers have had to up their game to keep up withheightened expectation from the consumer, so in that sense you get far more for your money buying a new bass than a piece of vintage nostalgia . The Squires felt good , but the are plenty of newer basses that feel just as good and sound and play better.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383424619' post='2264423']
I used to have a JV Series Jazz Bass and subsequently a JV Series '62 Precision back when they were current , which must be thirty years ago now . Looking back , they were terriffic affordable basses at the time , but if I take off the rose tinted spectacles, I can remember them well enough and knew them intimately enough to say that they could easily be substituted with new instruments made in the present , and I would not even remotely consider buying one of these basses at the prices they go for today . They were nice budget basses, but that's all they were . The Holy Grail status they have taken on in the interim period is disproportionate to their true worth as instruments , and in all honesty , I would recommend that you take a look at the current American Standard range for a much better use of your funds if you want a solid and reliable bass that will give you years of good service .

I would also question the worth of a JV Series Squier as a long term investment . It's only a matter of time until the bubble bursts and people start realising that the Emporer has got no clothes on in terms of the market value of these basses. Mental health care has probably changed a lot in the interim period , but if you had suggested paying the equivalent sum as they are going for today for one of the Squiers thirty years ago , you would have probably been Sectioned. I got my Squier Precision secondhand for thirty quid and it was in mint condition , ( but in those days you could always find hippies in need of cash). I think my Jazz cost £185 brand new.

The Roadworn Fender remind me a lot of the old JV Series Squiers , and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they become sought adfter in a similar way after they are discontinued . The only drawback to the Roadworn Precision is the 1.75 nut width , whereas the Squiers had a 1.625 nut that lots of folks , including myself, prefer . That's the width on the current Am St bases , and they are superb basses . To give you some indication of how good I think they are , I went out a few years ago to buy a proper vintage Fender with enough funds at my disposal to buy anything that took my fancy , and came home with a new 2009 American Standard and most of my money intact .
[/quote]

Great post!

[Mikkoantt]

Cameltoe
I just put you PM.

[Chiliwailer]

For what it's worth, I used to have a JV Precision and a JV Stratocaster. I'd say that they are good instruments, but not worthy of the legend or prices in my opinion. My USA reissue '57 Strat was miles ahead of the JV version, and I always preferred my USA basses.

Is a JV worth twice as much as a Jap or Mex reissue? I guess that's down to the guy buying it!

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1383507852' post='2265279']
For what it's worth, I used to have a JV Precision and a JV Stratocaster. I'd say that they are good instruments, but not worthy of the legend or prices in my opinion. My USA reissue '57 Strat was miles ahead of the JV version, and I always preferred my USA basses.

Is a JV worth twice as much as a Jap or Mex reissue? I guess that's down to the guy buying it!
[/quote]

I guess that given I've seen a few MIJ/CIJ P basses on here recently for sub-£400, you may have a point.....

[police squad]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1383494858' post='2265015']
I'm with Dingus on this.

These were entry level basses back in the 80s at a time when the demand for Fender basses had all but collapsed. Combination of shift to keyboards instead of guitars and basses in pop music plus a vast array of superb product from other manufacturers - eg Yamaha, Ibanez etc etc etc.

I see the Fullerton RI 80s Fenders are selling in vintage shops for just short of a grand also!! In the 80s people would be paying about £1000 for things like a Steinburger.

You really would have been in danger of being sectioned paying these prices......... What will happen when the bubble bursts?? You are surely safer buying a US standard or maybe a vintage reissue?
[/quote]

they just were not entry level basses. There were many cheaper bass guitars out there.
This was Fender taking on Tokai. They needed too. The tokais were very good and cheap. Jap labour rates were low so Jap guitars were great value.
I've had a lot of squiers over the years and they have all been good guitars. Currently my main gigging guitar is a 1984-87 maple necked strat. As good as any other strat I've played. I've also got a '62 JV bass which I picked up from it's original owner last year. It's very light and very resonant.

[Paul S]

[quote name='police squad' timestamp='1383547840' post='2265603']
they just were not entry level basses. There were many cheaper bass guitars out there.
This was Fender taking on Tokai. They needed too.
[/quote]This was my understanding, also. I think to dismiss the JVs as simply a cheap copy of the real thing would be a mistake. I have Luke's old JV0 Precision and it is without question the nicest Precision bass I have ever laid hands on. I can't say I have tried all the permutations, but have owned/had loan of/handled quite a few whilst looking for the 'right one'. MIJ, MIA, MIM - all sorts.

[Twigman]

I have a JV 62 precison.
I have owned it from new.
It hardly ever gets played anymore - I far prefer my yellow Warmoth P for playability.
I really cannot see what all the fuss is about - it was a particularly cheap ( was it £129 or £149 I paid ? I can't remember) budget bass at the time.
The story is that the JV series was better built than contemporary US Fenders - that may be so but early 80s Fenders were awful, so that wasn't hard, was it?
I really ought to cash in while the going's good but despite its inflated 'value' that won't happen - we've been through too much together.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1383562775' post='2265782']
This was my understanding, also. I think to dismiss the JVs as simply a cheap copy of the real thing would be a mistake. I have Luke's old JV0 Precision and it is without question the nicest Precision bass I have ever laid hands on. I can't say I have tried all the permutations, but have owned/had loan of/handled quite a few whilst looking for the 'right one'. MIJ, MIA, MIM - all sorts.
[/quote]

I'm not dismissing JV Squiers as a cheap copy as such , but they were relatively inexpensive when they were new and they are a copy , so there is an undeniable element of literal truth in that description .

What stood about the Squiers was what nice basses they were for the money , especially by the standards of that time . They weren't the cheapest basses available in their day , but they were in a price range within the grasp of most enthusiastic beginners and were an excellent choice for both basssists and guitarists. Trust me , I was a young player at the time and I remember those days vividly . Their appeal was enhanced by just how bloody awful genuine Fenders were by 1982/83. No one wanted them , quite literally.

According to my Historical Inflation Calculator , 150 quid in 1982/83 was the equivalent of £430 in todays money , so that gives you some idea of how they were pitched in the marketplace of the time they were current . In light of that then , in real terms these basses are selling for up to twice what they cost new .

If someone has a nice Squier now and enjoys it for any reason then great , you pay your money and take your choice .The point I am making , however, is that if someone is looking to buy nowadays , it is only prudent to consider the current alternatives at the price point these Squiers are selling for , many of which can offer all the positive qualities of these old Squiers and a great deal more besides, in many cases.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Dingus

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1383426754' post='2264459']
Again, not helping my gas- I love my Roadworn, but the 1.75 neck is (was) a drawback. The fact the Squier has a 1.625 neck is even more attractive.

I do hear what you're saying about the hype though, but my [b]dream[/b] bass is an American Vintage '57 in white blond, that's been worn-in and batted around a bit (so as it's a bit more comfortable, and I'm not afraid to put my own dings in it) with a 1.625" neck. So Custom Shop only?

I have owned a fairly recent American Standard (2005 model) and it was a fantastic instrument, but I found it a touch heavy, the finish cold and thick, the neck very hard, and it felt more engineered than crafted. It just didn't have that organic, wooden feel that I've grown to love.
[/quote] why not save up for a custom shop? seriously - I think JV's are great, but they aren't exactly the budget option - but if you have a dream bass in mind why not save up and go for that? (or see if someone other than fender would make you it, bravewood or someone)
[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383427861' post='2264479']
I promise you that ten years after Fender discontinue them , the Roadworns will have a similar cult status.
[/quote] Part of the value of JV stuff is how good they are as instruments- and partly because there is (at the early end) interest from Fender collectors. Now the JV I sold recently was one of the ones with the early cult status, and one of possibly only 300….. the rarity inflates the price (rightly or wrongly) how many roadworns are there in existence?
[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1383562775' post='2265782']
This was my understanding, also. I think to dismiss the JVs as simply a cheap copy of the real thing would be a mistake. I have my old JV0 Precision (used to be Luke's) and it is without question the nicest Precision bass I have ever laid hands on. I can't say I have tried all the permutations, but have owned/had loan of/handled quite a few whilst looking for the 'right one'. MIJ, MIA, MIM - all sorts.
[/quote] Corrected your post there..
[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383572456' post='2265957']
I'm not dismissing JV Squiers as a cheap copy as such , but they were relatively inexpensive when they were new and they are a copy , so there is an undeniable element of literal truth in that description .

What stood about the Squiers was what nice basses they were for the money , especially by the standards of that time . They weren't the cheapest basses available in their day , but they were in a price range within the grasp of most enthusiastic beginners and were an excellent choice for both basssists and guitarists. Trust me , I was a young player at the time and I remember those days vividly . Their appeal was enhanced by just how bloody awful genuine Fenders were by 1982/83. No one wanted them , quite literally.

According to my Historical Inflation Calculator , 150 quid in 1982/83 was the equivalent of £430 in todays money , so that gives you some idea of how they were pitched in the marketplace of the time they were current . In light of that then , in real terms these basses are selling for up to twice what they cost new .

If someone has a nice Squier now and enjoys it for any reason then great , you pay your money and take your choice .The point I am making , however, is that if someone is looking to buy nowadays , it is only prudent to consider the current alternatives at the price point these Squiers are selling for , many of which can offer all the positive qualities of these old Squiers and a great deal more besides, in many cases.
[/quote] I think it's important that any buyers take it on a case by case basis. Some of the prices for JV's I wouldn't pay, and others I would if I were in the market. Some of them are exceptional instruments. Some modern fender USA are exceptional, some modern MIM are amazing. Some are utter crap.
Mind you I still have preferred every japanese fender necks to anything from the USA or mexico, maybe cos my hands are fairly small.
Mind you Fullerton basses from the early 80's seem to have shot up to the £1.5-2k mark so maybe the JV's aren't that expensive now...

I think the mistake you are making in your reasoning is making the selling price new a determiner as to how good they might or might not be. In 30 years time will we look back and say a 2013 warwick streamer is 5 times better than a fender roadworn? No we'll look back and retrospectively say that the roadworn were great and worth the money still. There are plenty of other basses we can look back at and say they were really great instruments,and if you look at the late 70's early 80's a lot of the instruments coming out as budget from Japan are still brilliant instruments.
I picked up a 1977 Yamaha BB1200 to replace the JV, it's great, the BB300 I had for a while was nice too… early Ibanez models, Tokai were also really really nice instruments - and comparable to a lot of the new stuff being made today. Probably when they came out they were in the more affordable range compared to a genuine american fender. How does that effect how good they are as instruments now or their price?
Mind you I also wouldn't agree that modern Fenders are that great, some are but a lot are mediocre, and the new 2013 AVRI seem a step back from the quality of the earlier AVRI range (which was v. good IMO) - but they are instruments that the price has shot up for over the last few years, as I said you take the JV quality on a case by case basis - but comparing them to the modern USA fenders… I don't think it's the USA fenders that are overpriced….

[cameltoe]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1383588051' post='2266283']
why not save up for a custom shop? seriously - I think JV's are great, but they aren't exactly the budget option - but if you have a dream bass in mind why not save up and go for that? (or see if someone other than fender would make you it, bravewood or someone)
[/quote]

It's something I have thought about and probably will do at some point. Cost being the main factor. I'm also concerned that you're buying a bass you can't try out first- I've tried basses which have nothing wrong with them as such, but they just don't feel right to me.

I've no idea how much a custom shop would cost anyway, £2k? The one I played was going for £1500 and was a very fine instrument, but not improved enough over my RW to think the extra money was justified at that point.

Bravewood are local to me so I'd be interested, however i've read a few reports which concern me and he comes across really badly on his site. He also says he's not doing any more custom builds.

[Dingus]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1383588051' post='2266283']
why not save up for a custom shop? seriously - I think JV's are great, but they aren't exactly the budget option - but if you have a dream bass in mind why not save up and go for that? (or see if someone other than fender would make you it, bravewood or someone)
Part of the value of JV stuff is how good they are as instruments- and partly because there is (at the early end) interest from Fender collectors. Now the JV I sold recently was one of the ones with the early cult status, and one of possibly only 300….. the rarity inflates the price (rightly or wrongly) how many roadworns are there in existence?
Corrected your post there..
I think it's important that any buyers take it on a case by case basis. Some of the prices for JV's I wouldn't pay, and others I would if I were in the market. Some of them are exceptional instruments. Some modern fender USA are exceptional, some modern MIM are amazing. Some are utter crap.
Mind you I still have preferred every japanese fender necks to anything from the USA or mexico, maybe cos my hands are fairly small.
Mind you Fullerton basses from the early 80's seem to have shot up to the £1.5-2k mark so maybe the JV's aren't that expensive now...

I think the mistake you are making in your reasoning is making the selling price new a determiner as to how good they might or might not be. In 30 years time will we look back and say a 2013 warwick streamer is 5 times better than a fender roadworn? No we'll look back and retrospectively say that the roadworn were great and worth the money still. There are plenty of other basses we can look back at and say they were really great instruments,and if you look at the late 70's early 80's a lot of the instruments coming out as budget from Japan are still brilliant instruments.
I picked up a 1977 Yamaha BB1200 to replace the JV, it's great, the BB300 I had for a while was nice too… early Ibanez models, Tokai were also really really nice instruments - and comparable to a lot of the new stuff being made today. Probably when they came out they were in the more affordable range compared to a genuine american fender. How does that effect how good they are as instruments now or their price?
Mind you I also wouldn't agree that modern Fenders are that great, some are but a lot are mediocre, and the new 2013 AVRI seem a step back from the quality of the earlier AVRI range (which was v. good IMO) - but they are instruments that the price has shot up for over the last few years, as I said you take the JV quality on a case by case basis - but comparing them to the modern USA fenders… I don't think it's the USA fenders that are overpriced….
[/quote]

Was your JV one with the Fender logo as the main headstoch decal ? They are the sought-after ones.

You are getting a little confused in all of this , Luke , by virtue of your own reasoning , which by and large , I agree with . You say the mistake I am making is assessing their worth as instruments on the basis of the original selling price , but you are making a far greater mistake in asessing the worth of these basses on "how good they might be". That is a very difficult quality to quantify . Therein lies the potential for hyperbole . The reputation these basses have garnered in some quarters has become somewhat eggagerated . The fact is , they were good , but when I look at the prices they are now selling for , they were never [i]that [/i]good , simple as that . The fact is people are paying a lot of money for a thirty year old budget bass , and I only hope they are doing so with their eyes open .

The Roadworns have probably sold in fewer numbers than the JV Squiers , by virtue if the fact that the Squiers were cheaper and more accessible . Give it time and the Roadworn mojo will get to work in people's minds and they will become cult basses. And those early '80's Tokais you mention , I remember them well and they were brilliant . I seem to recall that the JV Squiers were actually built for Fender by exactly the same people on the same production line in the same factory in Japan .

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383591278' post='2266350']
Was your JV one with the Fender logo as the main headstoch decal ? They are the sought-after ones.

You are getting a little confused in all of this , Luke , by virtue of your own reasoning , which by and large , I agree with . You say the mistake I am making is assessing their worth as instruments on the basis of the original selling price , but you are making a far greater mistake in asessing the worth of these basses on "how good they might be". That is a very difficult quality to quantify . Therein lies the potential for hyperbole . The reputation these basses have garnered in some quarters has become somewhat eggagerated . The fact is , they were good , but when I look at the prices they are now selling for , they were never [i]that [/i]good , simple as that . The fact is people are paying a lot of money for a thirty year old budget bass , and I only hope they are doing so with their eyes open .

The Roadworns have probably sold in fewer numbers than the JV Squiers , by virtue if the fact that the Squiers were cheaper and more accessible . Give it time and the Roadworn mojo will get to work in people's minds and they will become cult basses. And those early '80's Tokais you mention , I remember them well and they were brilliant . I seem to recall that the JV Squiers were actually built for Fender by exactly the same people on the same production line in the same factory in Japan .
[/quote] JV Squire were made by Fuji Gen-Gakki so same factory as Greco not Tokai…
I think we're more or less saying similar things but from the opposite direction.

[drTStingray]

Gentlemen you need to be very careful with views on values of instruments. Currently there is a Fender bubble - they are very very popular. This can change with the wind - in the early 80s you could barely give away new or old ones as Dingus mentioned. Some of you will not believe this but it's true!

These cycles come and go. But the market for old guitars (and even old music up to a point) is age skewed - and many of those enthusiasts for old instruments are at the very senior end of the age scale.

It is entirely possible the bubble may burst - how much or when is anyone's guess.

One thing is for sure, they are only worth what people are willing to pay so if the market is saturated with instruments being sold by disinterested relatives, and the number of people wanting to buy them diminishes then the laws of supply and demand will suggest the prices will drop.

Edited November 4, 2013 by drTStingray

[Dingus]

Just to digress slightly for a moment , what if Squier made basses exactly like the JV Series ones again nowadays , priced around the £500 -£600 mark ? There is probably no real reason why the couldn't do it if they wanted to , and they would sell by the container load .

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383598225' post='2266490']
Just to digress slightly for a moment , what if Squier made basses exactly like the JV Series ones again nowadays , priced around the £500 -£600 mark ? There is probably no real reason why the couldn't do it if they wanted to , and they would sell by the container load .
[/quote] then nobody would buy the ones in the £1000-1700 range…

[clashcityrocker]

Interesting thread. I've got a decent job paying up soon so (obviously) thought I should get a nice jazz. I am thinking jv. How do they compare to late 70s fenders? the 70s always seem to look great,but not sure in QC

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='clashcityrocker' timestamp='1383634488' post='2266723']
Interesting thread. I've got a decent job paying up soon so (obviously) thought I should get a nice jazz. I am thinking jv. How do they compare to late 70s fenders? the 70s always seem to look great,but not sure in QC
[/quote] I think both Dingus and I would agree on - play them and see which you like.

the 70's one will have 70's pup spacing, the JV 60's pup spacing - which do you want. If I were thinking of buying a nice jazz…. I would get richardd's valenti which is probably still for sale, or one the the recent '75 ri from Fender's AVRI range….

[police squad]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1383590535' post='2266333']


Bravewood are local to me so I'd be interested, however i've read a few reports which concern me and he comes across really badly on his site. He also says he's not doing any more custom builds.
[/quote]

John at Bravewood is a lovely guy. He's done 2 builds for me in the past year and a '68 strat replica for my brother.
Just contact him, you never know. That's what I did

[GuyR]

John has also just done a build for me, fabulous bass ( beaten-up stack-knob jazz in surf green with matching headstock and one-piece maple neck) I get the impression he wants to avoid high maintenance customers. He's a nice guy and very straightforward to deal with.

On the subject of JVs I agree with Dingus they are overpriced. I have 3, but was furtunate enough to buy new, having tried every one for sale in Denmark St. There was a wide variation of sound, feel and especially weight. JVs were very well received because they were a quality product (like Tokai) at the tail-end of the period of poor-quality copies and even poorer-quality USA originals.

Having said that, I'm in no hurry to sell....

[thebuckets]

Im thinking of buying a jv at the min. But its a solid finish. Were they all definitely alder. My jap silver series was basswood. Good as it was at the time if im shelling out I want the real deal in body woods. Any way to tell before you buy?