How much is enough?

[Damonjames]

Hi all,

I am in the process of selling my current rig (orange terror bass 1000 and matamp 610) as I am looking I change my sound and what I play.

I am looking to get Into a jazz/funk/disco type band in the future so I'm insure of how much I am going to need amp wise so could use some help.

Was thinking of a gallien Krueger 1001eb with a 410 and 115, but would a markbass little mark and similar cab arrange by be enough grunt?

[Lozz196]

Would be plenty imo - having had a Little Mark Tube and a Markbass 410, and now having a Markbass CMD121P combo with NY121 ext cab, and being more than satisfied, a Little Mark with 410 and 115 would be an awesome rig. If anything I`d say get the the amp & 410 and see if the 115 is wanted/needed by using just the 410.

[Mr. Foxen]

Mixing a 4x10 and 1x15 gives an unpredictable result, so can't really make recommendations regarding it other than don't, and instead get a cab you do like the sound of, and add more until loud enough.

[RandomBass]

Not sure what size venues you play, but a Compact powered by your head of choice that does about 400w into 8 Ohms will be quite delightful... unless you need a tweeter of course.

[Damonjames]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1383417053' post='2264313']
Mixing a 4x10 and 1x15 gives an unpredictable result, so can't really make recommendations regarding it other than don't, and instead get a cab you do like the sound of, and add more until loud enough.
[/quote]

I have heard this before, but I struggle to understand it. I get the theory in that the two different size cones don't move/respond at same speeds, but if that so, why are there so many people using a 410+115 option?
I am guessing if you were bi amped it wouldn't be a problem as you could eq to suit each cab?

[Lozz196]

There`s a lot of techie stuff I can`t explain (or understand really) but the main thing is, if the LM2 is putting out 500 watts, that`s 250 to each cab. So 250 all to one 15, and then 250 to four 10s, so each 10 is getting 62.5. So there`s a chance that the 115 could struggle and, with the 410 (usually) being on top, you wouldn`t notice as everything from the 410 would sound fine.

For these two-different-cab situations I prefer either a 210/115 as it seems to balance out better, or a 410/210. The same theory applies of course, the smaller cab has the potential to get overloaded but with the 410/210 for one, you can just use one cab for rehearsals, then both for bigger gigs etc without needing to re-eq, plus, with the 210 being on the top, you can keep a check on it with your ears.

And I agree, many, including pros seem to still favour the 410/115 setup, and having used many of them myself (tho never owned one) they`ve all sounded great. Saying that though, for practicality I`d still stick with all the same size speakers. Just to make life easier.

[Damonjames]

Ok, that sound more logical, cheers. What are everyone's thoughts on 12's? I've never really considered them before, but they seem quite popular these days

[xgsjx]

Driver diameter makes no difference to the sound. A 2x12 has a good surface covering (the potential to move a good amount of air) & has good dispersion (unless you lay it vertically).

[Bolo]

A single 2x12 will often do the job of a 410 but with more alacrity. 12s seem stronger in the low mids and weaker in the sub ranges (generally speaking ofcourse!) Making them cut through easier.
Less speakers may mean more portability. Add a second 2x12 for full stack power or maybe an 18 for monster subs

I use a 4x12. Lighter than a 8x10, loud enough for anything, gargantuan tone.

[DanEly]

jazz/funk/disco There's a huge range of different tones that cover these genres.
What type of sound do you have in your head? Old school p with flats, nice bright jazz or a modern active styled tone (and anything In between)

What about a Aguilar rig? I can't recommended them enough or Markbass

[Damonjames]

Right now I'm not a massive fan of p bass with flats, I'm think more a jazz or maybe a stingray kind of vibe. I just want I nice clean neutral sound with portability so maybe neo cabs.
I was thinking littlemark 2/3 or maybe a GK head as they are quite reasonably priced second hand. I would like something close to flea's grit (at an absolute stretch) to a clean mellow sound which I don't think should be too hard to achieve with any of the small heads knocking about. Just a little unsure of cab choice as there are so many option now.

[DanEly]

[quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1383475285' post='2264740']
Right now I'm not a massive fan of p bass with flats, I'm think more a jazz or maybe a stingray kind of vibe. I just want I nice clean neutral sound with portability so maybe neo cabs.
I was thinking littlemark 2/3 or maybe a GK head as they are quite reasonably priced second hand. I would like something close to flea's grit (at an absolute stretch) to a clean mellow sound which I don't think should be too hard to achieve with any of the small heads knocking about. Just a little unsure of cab choice as there are so many option now.
[/quote]

A little mark will get you that crystal clean tone. If you can, your best bet would be to find a local shop to go and try some gear out!

[Damonjames]

Are there any in the northwest?

[chris_b]

Mixing speaker sizes can work. A lot of us have done it successfully for years, but these days, if you get good cabs, you don't need a 15" to add bass, bottom or "fill out" the sound. A good 410 will give you more bottom end than a 15 and (IMO) will punch that bass through the mix better than a 15 would.



I'd change one thing at a time. There is a Markbass 610 and a couple of Barefaced Super 12's in the FS section.

Edited November 3, 2013 by chris_b

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1383453691' post='2264612']
I have heard this before, but I struggle to understand it. I get the theory in that the two different size cones don't move/respond at same speeds, but if that so, why are there so many people using a 410+115 option?
[/quote]

Same reason a lot of people eat McDonalds, buying with eyes because shiny adverts and not using sense appropriate to the subject matter.

If you biamp, each speaker set is getting different frequency bands so they don't interfere. But sounds like you aren't thinking of biamping, but rather using two amps covering the same frequency band, which gives even more potential for mess, once you know enough to sort that mess out, you know why to not make it in the first place.

[Muzz]

[quote name='Damonjames' timestamp='1383476906' post='2264757']
Are there any in the northwest?
[/quote]

Drew at the Manchester Bass Lounge has some high-end amps and cabs in, MarkBass especially - he's even got one of the new Multiamps in, I'm dying to try that one.

[Damonjames]

So I've been digging a little through the massive amount of info out there, and swaying toward a GK 1001rb head and neo 212 cabs, they seem the best bang for your buck in the used gear market. I figure I can use one cab for small
Stuff and if I need to play a bigger venue I can just add the second cab.

[chris_b]

The best deals at the moment might be a Genz Benz rig. Fender have shut GB down and are selling off all the stock at very good prices. Checkout the deals at Bassdirect and other places.

Are you suggesting 2 212 cabs? That seems like overkill for the music you listed earlier.

[Conan]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1383645735' post='2266870']
The best deals at the moment might be a Genz Benz rig. Fender have shut GB down and are selling off all the stock at very good prices. Checkout the deals at Bassdirect and other places.
[/quote]

Have a look at this - [url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/genz-benz-nx2-212t/89565"]http://www.gak.co.uk/en/genz-benz-nx2-212t/89565[/url] I did, and as a result I am trying to sell my BF Compact (which might be a good solution to the OP's problem!).

[Damonjames]

I just want to be able to keep my options open should the lure rock n roll ever get too great!

[brensabre79]

2x12s are the new 4x10s - before the 4x10s came along everyone was using 1x15 or 1x18 It's just technology moving on.

Yes many of the big players have a 4x10 and 1x15 setup (in the ads at least) But take a good look at their real backline - most of them are bi-amped or indeed using two separate amplifier heads, one for the 4x10s, one for the 1x15s.

I've got a Carvin BX series (you should check them out if you can) and a lightweight 2x12 that will handle over 1000W. I won't need a bigger rig. These days, beyond a certain size venue you will have PA support so your rig is just personal monitoring. Below that you won't need more than a 4x10 or a 2x12 in this day and age.
in the old days they had stacks of speakers because the speakers couldn;t handle much more than 100W each.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1383472478' post='2264701']
Driver diameter makes no difference to the sound.
[/quote]

Well its becoming less of a factor with modern high end drivers because they use lighter and stiffer cones. If you use cheap drivers of the sort found in commodity level gear then larger drivers will lack highs, have poor transient response and a very uneven frequency response.

[chris_b]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1383472478' post='2264701']
....Driver diameter makes no difference to the sound.....
[/quote]

That's the mantra... but an 8" won't sound like a 15", unless each cab is specifically designed to sound the same, and no one bothers to do that.

[Damonjames]

So I have jumped... I have sold off my old rig and a few bits and pieces and managed to get a GK 1001rb ii head and a neo 212 and 115 cabs. I head listened to your advise on mixing cab sizes and wouldn't have chosen this path however I came across these cabs in near new condition at a very reasonable price not far from where I live. I figure if the mix doesn't work I can always flog the 15 and get another 212.
Just waiting on the head to arrive and ill report back!

[Lozz196]

I`m sure there will be no problem - each cab will more than likely have it`s own sound, but added together get the sound you like, no worries. And for practices I`d reckon the 212 will be more than enough on its own so a nice portable rig there.