Ritter, Aguilar, Bergantino - Apparently a great sounding combination!

[molan]

First gig with my new band tonight and I'd been going round in circles a bit on what to use.

A Celinder J Update got me the gig so that was a possible. I've also been playing my '63J quite a lot and, at the other end of the scale, a very cool 'stealth black' Sei headless 4 has had a lot of use recently because it's just stupidly easy to play.

My 'big gig rig' of Aguilar DB750 and DB410 kinda fitted the bill for a rock gig In a fairly large venue and I had an option of my favourite lightweight Aggie SL112's or a MarkBass Mini CMD112P plus extension cab that I've been rehearsing with.

In the end I decided to take out a 33.3" Ritter Cora, an Aguilar Tone Hammer 500 and a Bergantino AE210. The, totally vain, reason for choosing the Ritter was because we had agreed on stage clothes and I knew the Ritter would match my 'outfit', lol. Plus, of course, I knew it would sound good and the shorter scale makes it nice to play.

The TH500 is very much reference head. It doesn't have the depth of the DB750 but it comes close and it's so much easier to lug around.

The Berg AE210 was the hardest choice. I'd kinda fallen out of love with it recently but the size, weight, tone combination seemed right for this gig.

I was pretty happy with what I was hearing on stage but was even happier at the end of the gig.

Turned out there was serious live sound engineer in the audience plus a very good guitarist who used to play with our singer. The live sound guy came up to talk to me after the gig and said couldn't believe the depth of bass coming from the little Berg cab and was amazed to hear that there was virtually no bass in the FOH.

The guitarist then really quizzed me about the bass and rig because he said it sounded 'just right' in the live mix. Plenty of depth with lots of clarity and note definition (which worried me because I know I hit a few bum notes, lol). He claimed it was different league to his regular bass player in terms of pure tone and that he'd try to find a way to get his guy to think about some new gear.

Both of them commented on how cool the Ritter looked too - they said they'd not seen anything quite like it before

It's nice when a plan comes together. . .

Edited November 3, 2013 by molan

[Lowender]

Lover Bergantino. They do have a certain depth to them. Larry Hartke claims it's because they lack high end but I can with absolute certainty say that he's wrong about that one.

Can't get with the Aguilar. I also find the tone controls to have little effect.

[PauBass]

Yes, it does sound like a great bass-amp-combination.

I have never play a Ritter but I have been using Aguilar amps and Bergantino cabs for quite a few years now and I see what you mean.

Bergantinos, best cabs around for my taste, I've had three and all of them where great cabs.

I've been meaning to try an Aguilar TH500 for a while, I just keep reading excellent comments. As you, I also have a DB750, I wouldn't mind loosing some of the weight but not sure if the TH500 will be loud enough and if I will loose too much on note weight.

Glad to hear the gig went so well

[AntLockyer]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1383446813' post='2264605']
...and that he'd try to find a way to get his guy to think about some new gear.

[/quote]

Surely easier to give you the job

[JTUK]

Nice one, Barrie.

I thought the TH and CN112's were a very good match at your shop's demo room volumes and was was close to the DB750
but I doubt it will do that at larger volumes,. Not that it was at all bad...not at all, just that the DB750 has more legs and grunt
and will proove that on larger stages/

I'd be quite happy with that rig..on that demo... as my B rig.

But..as far as AE112's go... they do lose focus up top, IMO... especially if you compare that with a DB212.
I am convinced by this. If I run a TF 550-B with 2xAE112's against the DB212 without touching the amp EQ...
the AE's do not keep the hi mids as well...they get lost.
For this reason, I will probably move them on. Not saying they aren't very nice cabs, but they aren't doing it for me.
The gigs I tend to use them on..I can get away with...hence why I still have them... but I am still on the lookout for lighter, smaller footprint
112's.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1383446813' post='2264605']
First gig with my new band tonight and I'd been going round in circles a bit on what to use.

A Celinder J Update got me the gig so that was a possible. I've also been playing my '63J quite a lot and, at the other end of the scale, a very cool 'stealth black' Sei headless 4 has had a lot of use recently because it's just stupidly easy to play.

My 'big gig rig' of Aguilar DB750 and DB410 kinda fitted the bill for a rock gig In a fairly large venue and I had an option of my favourite lightweight Aggie SL112's or a MarkBass Mini CMD112P plus extension cab that I've been rehearsing with.

In the end I decided to take out a 33.3" Ritter Cora, an Aguilar Tone Hammer 500 and a Bergantino AE210. The, totally vain, reason for choosing the Ritter was because we had agreed on stage clothes and I knew the Ritter would match my 'outfit', lol. Plus, of course, I knew it would sound good and the shorter scale makes it nice to play.

The TH500 is very much reference head. It doesn't have the depth of the DB750 but it comes close and it's so much easier to lug around.

The Berg AE210 was the hardest choice. I'd kinda fallen out of love with it recently but the size, weight, tone combination seemed right for this gig.

I was pretty happy with what I was hearing on stage but was even happier at the end of the gig.

Turned out there was serious live sound engineer in the audience plus a very good guitarist who used to play with our singer. The live sound guy came up to talk to me after the gig and said couldn't believe the depth of bass coming from the little Berg cab and was amazed to hear that there was virtually no bass in the FOH.

The guitarist then really quizzed me about the bass and rig because he said it sounded 'just right' in the live mix. Plenty of depth with lots of clarity and note definition (which worried me because I know I hit a few bum notes, lol). He claimed it was different league to his regular bass player in terms of pure tone and that he'd try to find a way to get his guy to think about some new gear.

Both of them commented on how cool the Ritter looked too - they said they'd not seen anything quite like it before

It's nice when a plan comes together. . .
[/quote]
As a player that doesn't get excited about gear or technicalities most of your text is absolute gobbledegook to me. ...but I'm glad you got the result you wanted!

[molan]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1383466090' post='2264635']


Surely easier to give you the job
[/quote]

I think he was hinting exactly that, lol

[molan]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1383447286' post='2264607']
Lover Bergantino. They do have a certain depth to them. Larry Hartke claims it's because they lack high end but I can with absolute certainty say that he's wrong about that one.

Can't get with the Aguilar. I also find the tone controls to have little effect.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say Bergs in general lack high end. Although, having said that, I tend to find Hartke cabs sound much too bright and harsh to my ears so that's probably just different people's views of what 'high end' should sound like

The DB and TH heads are very 'voiced' (the AG far less so) and I think people either really like the Aggie sound or struggle with it. Again it's probably down to individual interpretation on what effect the tone controls have. For me they're really usable and don't have the extreme effect some other brands have. I find it easier to dial in a sound I like with Aguilar heads because of this. For example, last night I thought the room was sucking mids a little so a dropped the mid frequency band to about 9:00 and boosted that frequency to about 2:00. Seemed to cure the problem perfectly and all other controls were left flat.

It's a while since I really used a DB750 at gig volume but I seem to remember that the tone controls are even more subtle. I often found that just flicking either the low or high boost switches was all that was ever necessary and keeping the other tone controls flat worked best for me.

[molan]

[quote name='PauBass' timestamp='1383462979' post='2264624']

I've been meaning to try an Aguilar TH500 for a while, I just keep reading excellent comments. As you, I also have a DB750, I wouldn't mind loosing some of the weight but not sure if the TH500 will be loud enough and if I will loose too much on note weight.

[/quote]

I know exactly what you mean. I've never played anything that gives weight to low notes like the DB750. The TH can deliver a lot of the core tone but it'll never quite have the depth the DB has. It comes close enough for me really and the weight difference is a life saver if you have to carry hints for any distance

It is surprisingly loud though. Last night I was running into a single 8ohm 2x10 cab in a very large room with two loud guitarists and I didn't go above about 12:00 on both pre and master volume.

I'm no expert on exactly how different people rate their watts but I know the power module in the TH500 is the same one some other claim 900w for!

Edited November 3, 2013 by molan

[molan]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1383472408' post='2264698']
Nice one, Barrie.

I thought the TH and CN112's were a very good match at your shop's demo room volumes and was was close to the DB750
but I doubt it will do that at larger volumes,. Not that it was at all bad...not at all, just that the DB750 has more legs and grunt
and will proove that on larger stages/

I'd be quite happy with that rig..on that demo... as my B rig.

But..as far as AE112's go... they do lose focus up top, IMO... especially if you compare that with a DB212.
I am convinced by this. If I run a TF 550-B with 2xAE112's against the DB212 without touching the amp EQ...
the AE's do not keep the hi mids as well...they get lost.
For this reason, I will probably move them on. Not saying they aren't very nice cabs, but they aren't doing it for me.
The gigs I tend to use them on..I can get away with...hence why I still have them... but I am still on the lookout for lighter, smaller footprint
112's.
[/quote]

Thanks JT

I marginally prefer the Aggie SL112's to the CN112's with the TH500 but there's not a lot in it. My favourite is the CN212 which seems to have more depth and low mids to my ears. I wish Aggie would bring out a 4ohm SL212 as I think that could be a killer lightweight cab.

The big advantage for me with the AE210 is the really shallow footprint. It's way thinner than any of the other cabs mentioned and this can make a real difference in a tight space. I'm currently sharing my side of the stage with the second guitarist's Vox amp and the form factor of the AE gives me lots of flexibility in location.

A pair of these stacked ought to sound great! Would also be nice to hear a new Bergantino 10" speaker - I must ask if there's anything on the horizon

[fretmeister]

I really must try a TH500

I'll never go back to big heavy amps so the 751 is a no go for me, but if the TH500 gets pretty close then I might spend some money.

[PauBass]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1383479661' post='2264803']


I know exactly what you mean. I've never played anything that gives weight to low notes like the DB750. The TH can deliver a lot of the core tone but it'll never quite have the depth the DB has. It comes close enough for me really and the weight difference is a life saver if you have to carry hints for any distance

It is surprisingly loud though. Last night I was running into a single 8ohm 2x10 cab in a very large room with two loud guitarists and I didn't go above about 12:00 on both pre and master volume.

I'm no expert on exactly how different people rate their watts but I know the power module in the TH500 is the same one some other claim 900w for!
[/quote]

I must definitely try one....or buy one but they don't seem to come up for sale second hand often...that must be a good sign?

[JapanAxe]

No pics? Didn't happen!

[JTUK]

Further to the point about subtle EQ..
I think the TH has it...and I think the DB750 has it... and that is good as these 2 amps sound
good straight away when you plug in if you aren't chasing your bass sound.
I actually think this is the way it should be as if you haven't got the bass sounding good, then all you are doing is amplifying a crap sound..and that is not a war you'll win very often, IMO.

Too much colour..as opposed to bias... is not the way to go, IMO.

Edited November 3, 2013 by JTUK

[JTUK]

Just to add ... another amp that worked straight off the shelf was the PF500...IMO.. but the trick is whether these sort of amps amp up anything like as well.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1383497555' post='2265058']
Just to add ... another amp that worked straight off the shelf was the PF500...IMO.. but the trick is whether these sort of amps amp up anything like as well.
[/quote]

Yeah if the PF500 was reliable I would try one!

I get the TH500 sound by just using the TH pedal.

[Dingus]

I really like what I have seen of the PF500, too, but what is all this about them not being reliable ? My current TE combo serves me well but is getting old and in need of servicing or replacing , and I have got one eye on a compact modern rig . I love that Ampeg sound , and the PF500 looks cheap and cheerful . But am I to understand they are prone to breaking down ?

Edited November 3, 2013 by Dingus

[molan]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383500939' post='2265125']
I really like what I have seen of the PF500, too, but what is all this about them not being reliable ? My current TE combo serves me well but is getting old and in need of servicing or replacing , and I have got one eye on a compact modern rig . I love that Ampeg sound , and the PF500 looks cheap and cheerful . But am I to understand they are prone to breaking down ?
[/quote]

They are so prone to breaking that I know one main Ampeg dealer that simply refuses to sell them any more

I'm not sure what the actual issue is but I've lots of stories of them blowing mid-gig and that's just a complete no-no on any modern head.

There are other, better, alternatives out there I think.

[molan]

[quote name='PauBass' timestamp='1383491500' post='2264968']


I must definitely try one....or buy one but they don't seem to come up for sale second hand often...that must be a good sign?
[/quote]

I think it may be because they do have a distinct sound. If someone tries one in a shop they'll know pretty quickly if that sound is for them. If they like it then they buy a TH and hang on to it.

I think it's most likely that used ones come from people who've bought on a recommendation or review and then discovered it wasn't quite the right sound for them

Great reliability as well, I've not heard of any coming back in for warranty repairs

[Dingus]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1383504034' post='2265188']
They are so prone to breaking that I know one main Ampeg dealer that simply refuses to sell them any more

I'm not sure what the actual issue is but I've lots of stories of them blowing mid-gig and that's just a complete no-no on any modern head.

There are other, better, alternatives out there I think.
[/quote]

O.K , at least I found now beforehand . Thanks for the information . That one is definitely off the list.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Dingus

[molan]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1383491645' post='2264970']
No pics? Didn't happen!
[/quote]

Best I can offer is this crappy iphone pic!

[PauBass]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1383504220' post='2265196']
I think it may be because they do have a distinct sound. If someone tries one in a shop they'll know pretty quickly if that sound is for them. If they like it then they buy a TH and hang on to it.

I think it's most likely that used ones come from people who've bought on a recommendation or review and then discovered it wasn't quite the right sound for them

Great reliability as well, I've not heard of any coming back in for warranty repairs
[/quote]

So to clarify, is it voice kinda like the DB750? Or at least can provide that tone?
Not sure there's any places close to Brighton were I can try one.

[fretmeister]

Awesome shirt!

[molan]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1383510990' post='2265358']
Awesome shirt!
[/quote]

That's my gig shirt - I deliberately left it in shot to see if anyone would notice

[molan]

[quote name='PauBass' timestamp='1383510952' post='2265357']
So to clarify, is it voice kinda like the DB750? Or at least can provide that tone?
Not sure there's any places close to Brighton were I can try one.
[/quote]

Yes, absolutely. It was designed to be a 'baby' version of the DB

The place I work now & then is about 2 hours from you

Guitar Guitar in Epsom generally have a Th in stock but I'm not sure what their demo facilities are like.

If you go there then ask for Wes. He's not always in the bass section but he's a great guy and a good player (he also builds a mean bass from time to time!).