The Illusion of Vintage Fender Value

[Lowender]

Why do people still talk about how cheap the old Fenders were and if they'd only had hung on to them they would have made a great profit?

In 1962 a Fender Precision ran for 250 American dollars. In today's economy that's $1800 -- slightly more than a new Precision bass.

So in fact, they were MORE expensive than now.

Of course, the rarity of the old Precisions has made them far more valuable. Very few other basses have increased in value. Try selling a 78 Ric or a 85 Thunderbird and it'll be unlikely you'll get as much as what they're going for new.

So even had you held on to that Precision bass from '62 it'd be worth about $10,000 today. Not bad. But considering inflation, it would have taken you over 40 years to have made a whopping profit of around 2500 quid. . You'd be better off getting a piggy bank and putting a handful of pennies in it every day.

[KiOgon]

Instead of looking at your piggy bank & shaking it about - you might have got a gig, formed a band, played to millions, had a rock & roll life style for 50 years, got old & grumpy & still have your old faithful P-bass to play - when the arthritis ain't too bad

You can stick your piggy bank where the sun don't shine a P-bass won't fit

[gary mac]

go John.

[bartelby]

My dad bought a brand new, Fiesta Red (we think), Precision in 1962 and it cost him £150, from George Clay's (I think)in Brum. An infaltion calculator says that's equivilent to £2,715.02 today. If my dad had kept it, it would have been in mint condition and had all the case gubbins and recipt.* So that would have been worth a nice amount now. *as long as I hadn't borrowed it of course!

Edited November 4, 2013 by bartelby

[Lowender]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1383579471' post='2266109']
Instead of looking at your piggy bank & shaking it about - you might have got a gig, formed a band, played to millions, had a rock & roll life style for 50 years, got old & grumpy & still have your old faithful P-bass to play - when the arthritis ain't too bad

You can stick your piggy bank where the sun don't shine a P-bass won't fit
[/quote]

Why the anger?

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1383578969' post='2266098']
So in fact, they were MORE expensive than now.

[/quote]

Of course they were. At that time in bass history, mojo was not yet a scarce resource so they tended to use much more of it in general production.

These days, mojo is so rare that it only get used in Custom Shop instruments.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Happy Jack

[KiOgon]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1383579715' post='2266116']
Why the anger?
[/quote]No anger intended - didn't I use enough smilies? Peace & Love, flower power, pass the pipe

[Dingus]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1383579471' post='2266109']


You can stick your piggy bank where the sun don't shine a P-bass won't fit
[/quote]

I've tried it and I wouldn't recommend it . They won't accept the money at the bank after you do that.

[alittlebitrobot]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1383579809' post='2266119']
Of course they were. At that time in bass history, mojo was not yet a scarce resource so they tended to use much more of it in general production.

These days, mojo is so rare that it only get used in Custom Shop instruments.
[/quote]

That Korean mojo is actually passable if you play in a fairly crap band. I'd never use it on a recording but it'll get you by on a pub gig.

[LukeFRC]

I didn't think most people buy basses based on what they think they will be worth in the future. I think they buy them to make music.
But when at some point in the 80's the brand new shiny thing was good and they sold their old 60's bass for very little to afford active/graphite/pointyness I don't begrudge them looking at the price their old bass could have made now and sighing.
The bigger crime was possibly the hair cut and clothes worn along with the pointy active graphite shiney bass- but that's a different thread...

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1383578969' post='2266098']
Why do people still talk about how cheap the old Fenders were ...
[/quote]
In my experience people dont talk about how cheap the old Fenders were.

Rather, the opposite, they talk about how a Fender bass cost about ten weeks wages.

That's why so many of us wanted a Fender but couldn't possibly afford one.

They have got cheaper and cheaper over the years.

[Lozz196]

I heard/read an interview with Paul McCartney and him saying he soooo wanted a Fender Precision, but had been brought up to keep a careful eye on the pennies. Apparently this was after The Beatles had split, so if an ex-Beatle couldn`t afford one back then....................

[Dingus]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1383586808' post='2266260']
In my experience people dont talk about how cheap the old Fenders were.

Rather, the opposite, they talk about how a Fender bass cost about ten weeks wages.

That's why so many of us wanted a Fender but couldn't possibly afford one.

They have got cheaper and cheaper over the years.
[/quote]

This is absolutely correct .

Both in terms of inflation and especuially if you allow for the fact that fourty years ago wages were lower i real terms , Fenders are much cheaper now than they used to be. Even in the early 1970's a new standard USA ( that's all they made in those days) Fender Precision would have set you back the equivalent of about £1800 for cash , and significantly, that was before the introduction of V.A.T when Purchase Tax was not as high as the 20.% we pay today . Nowadays you can get the equivalent bass for about £1100 You also have to bear in mind that it would have been harder for most ordinary people to find that kind of money out of their meagre wages.

What has become forgotten very quickly is how much the material culture and economy of Britain changed during the 1980's to accomodate far more people purchasing relatively expensive luxury consumer items, including electric guitars . Up to that point , even relatively well-off people in Britain had relatively modest posessions in comparison to their social equivalents nowadays. By comparison , post- WW2 America was a far more affluent society and the domestic retail price of Fenders from the outset was within the reach of a mass market, albeit at the top end of that market .

Edited November 4, 2013 by Dingus

[drTStingray]

In 1973 the pinnacle of my bass desire was a new natural precision with maple board in the window of Yardleys in Birmingham - it was £252 - I was still a teenager and had just started my first proper job and earned 4 times that annually. The price of a new car of an upper spec say the equivalent of a Focus ST was the same as my annual salary. A terraced house would have set you back 4 or 5 times that salary.

So the P bass would have been about £5000 against the car value - about £8 to £10K against the house and against an upper starter salary about £4000 in today's money. How much could I sell it for as a mojo d player (cos that's what it would be - did you see the belts we held our flares up with!!!) - say £1500 to £2000?

And believe me even back then the old farts were telling us no laddie you need to buy a pre CBS - they're far better!!!!

You also have to remember the world went comparatively mad in the mid 70s with soaring inflation following fuel supply issues caused by politics and war. However instrument prices didn't follow that pattern as born out by the Stingray value. As Dingus said, that happened in the 80s and indeed I sold my Stingray for significantly more than I paid for it.

New basses are relatively good value and most definitely better specd and built these days......although those prices are nudging upwards again ........

Edited November 4, 2013 by drTStingray

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1383579696' post='2266114']
... George Clay's (I think)in Brum ...
[/quote]
... in Broad Street?

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1383589852' post='2266312']
... Yardleys in Birmingham
[/quote]
... on Snow Hill?

I bought my first Fender at Woodruff's ... in Dale End?

[Kiwi]

The perspective in this thread is so refreshing. <---This is not sarcasm.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1383590513' post='2266332']

... in Broad Street?


... on Snow Hill?

I bought my first Fender at Woodruff's ... in Dale End?
[/quote]

Yes Snow Hill - how much did the P bass set you back?

[Dingus]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1383589852' post='2266312']
In 1973 the pinnacle of my bass desire was a new natural precision with maple board in the window of Yardleys in Birmingham - it was £252 - I was still a teenager and had just started my first proper job and earned 4 times that annually. The price of a new car of an upper spec say the equivalent of a Focus ST was the same as my annual salary. A terraced house would have set you back 4 or 5 times that salary.

So the P bass would have been about £5000 against the car value - about £8 to £10K against the house and against an upper starter salary about £4000 in today's money. How much could I sell it for as a mojo d player (cos that's what it would be - did you see the belts we held our flares up with!!!) - say £1500 to £2000?


[/quote]

According to the inflation calculator , £252 in 1973 would be £2581 today .

In 1989 a new Wal Custom would have cost you £790 full retail price , I know that because I bought one in that year ) . That is the equivalent of £1665 today . I'm not entirely sure what the relevance of that information is to this discussion , but I thought I would throw it in for anyone who is tormented by their desire for a Wal bass in the present .

Edited November 4, 2013 by Dingus

[drTStingray]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383592303' post='2266371']


According to the inflation calculator , £252 in 1973 would be £2581 today .

In 1989 a new Wal Custom would have cost you £790 full retail price , I know that because I bought one in that year ) . That is the equivalent of £1665 today . I'm not entirely sure what the relevance of that information is to this discussion , but I thought I would throw it in for anyone who is tormented by their desire for a Wal bass in the present .
[/quote]

Yes please - at that price!!!!!

I think the issue is that instrument prices don't generally follow inflation - fashion seems to play a part and reflects to an extent what is fashionable musically at the time. This doesn't account for the boutique prices which I guess Wal could be described as.

[gregsguitars]

I don't know about the inflation scenario but I do like old bass guitars....

[Happy Jack]

[URL=http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/media/Other%20music%20related/Selmer%20Catalogue%201963/scan0011-1.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/h4ppyjack/Other%20music%20related/Selmer%20Catalogue%201963/scan0011-1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[molan]

I'd definitely agree that Fenders are much cheaper now than they used to be.

My first Fender was £110 brand new and I was earning £2,500 a year at the time. That's a pretty high percentage of my annual salary.

If I'd kept it it would be worth about £750 today so definitely not an investment bass. As it happens I traded it for a Precision plus about £25. The same P would be worth maybe £1,750 today. A better price increase but still not much of an investment.

I'm not sure there are any basses that are really solid investments when compared to many other mainstream investments out there. However, choose wisely and you can get something that's fun to own that shouldn't lose much value (even taking inflation into account).

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1383592183' post='2266367']
Yes Snow Hill - how much did the P bass set you back?
[/quote]
I can't quite remember for sure but I think it was 1975 and I think it was nearer £300 than £200 but it is a bit vague.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1383604659' post='2266607']
[url="http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/media/Other%20music%20related/Selmer%20Catalogue%201963/scan0011-1.jpg.html"][/url]
[/quote]

48 gns equals £50.40 in new money. What year was that Jack?

My first bass was a second hand Hofner Artist for £30 in 1972, I think.

[Happy Jack]

This is the 1963 Selmer Catalogue:

http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/library/Other%20music%20related/Selmer%20Catalogue%201963