Rush - Counterparts

[wateroftyne]

After the recent discussions we've had on BC about modern-day Rush, whether they've still got it. and whether the production is any good...

...Alien Shore from Counterparts popped up on shuffle in the car today, and I ended up listening to the whole album. I massively underrated this at the time.

Yes, there's a couple of turkeys on it, and the odd dodgy keyboard flourish, but there's some great songs and the production is dynamite. It's live, dynamic and natural sounding. Alex's guitar is focussed and gnarly. It sounds like you're in a room with a power trio.

The slide began after this one, I reckon.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkLVQYv3tE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkLVQYv3tE[/url]

[Beedster]

Funnily enough I was listening to a Rush compilation a mate did for me today and thinking what a great band they are. The mate in question's a folkie and I never quite understood why he's such a massive Rush fan. I found myself liking them to Jethro Tull today (!!!!), so perhaps can start to see the link?

Either way, great band, and great bass playing on pretty much every track

[Dingus]

I like a lot of things about this album . This is the one that marked a distinct about-turn and return to basics , no doubt influenced by the new music of the time that eschewed the grandiose over-production and sterility that had prevailed throughout the 1980's . I went to see them on the Counterparts tour and they were just as slick as ever.

Counterparts had a lot of potential and is a great -sounding record in terms of overall sonic quality , but is let down by having only maybe three decent songs on , in my opinion . A lot better than Roll The Bones, I suppose, that one didn't have any , or Presto that only had one song of any merit .

Edited November 4, 2013 by Dingus

[xilddx]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1383597761' post='2266475']
After the recent discussions we've had on BC about modern-day Rush, whether they've still got it. and whether the production is any good...

...Alien Shore from Counterparts popped up on shuffle in the car today, and I ended up listening to the whole album. I massively underrated this at the time.

Yes, there's a couple of turkeys on it, and the odd dodgy keyboard flourish, but there's some great songs and the production is dynamite. It's live, dynamic and natural sounding. Alex's guitar is focussed and gnarly. It sounds like you're in a room with a power trio.

The slide began after this one, I reckon.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkLVQYv3tE[/media]
[/quote]

I never liked it, apart from the guitar on Cut to the Chase. Then just like you, one of them shuffled the f*** out of me a couple of months ago. I feel exactly the same way about the album as you do now. It was exactly the same process and result as yorn.

[XB26354]

Counterparts is a good album. They should remember what songs sound like. I've been distinctly underwhelmed by their recent output, and having bought every album on release since Exit... Stage Left I gave up after Snakes and Arrows, which has one decent song but is otherwise dull (I put it in occasionally and get bored after 1 or two songs, which never happens to me on the previous 20-odd releases). I didn't even bother with the last album. It's a shame because they have been one of the most interesting and varied bands in my lifetime, consistently good and even the weaker songs have good playing and some ideas of merit. It almost feels like they've run out of ideas. Alex Lifeson's layered guitar approach since Vapor Trails doesn't work for me and makes for tiring listening. And am I the only one that wishes Geddy would ditch the Jazz and play something more interesting? The Rick, Steinberger and Wal were such distinctive basses. Ironically though, I think the Jazz worked really well on Counterparts, so maybe it is the wall of guitars. Geddy commented that Alex is an exceptional chordal and arpeggio player and a lot of their song ideas sound like they come from his riffs. I think the layering, and the fact that they take months to make an album, has taken some of their spark and spontaneity away.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1383598114' post='2266486']
Funnily enough I was listening to a Rush compilation a mate did for me today and thinking what a great band they are. The mate in question's a folkie and I never quite understood why he's such a massive Rush fan. I found myself liking them to Jethro Tull today (!!!!), so perhaps can start to see the link?

Either way, great band, and great bass playing on pretty much every track
[/quote]
Chris, you're learning!

[wateroftyne]

I agree with all of the above.

It feels like the last album where the songs were 'written', rather than assembled in Protools. I kind-of agree with you, Dingus - there's only three or four standout songs on it, but the mediocre stuff is much better than I remember.

Alex should be banned from layering guitars. It sucks the life out of the performances.

The drums are lovely... listen to the kick on the intro to 'Leave That Thing Alone'. Why can't they mix records like that these days?

[xilddx]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1383602188' post='2266559']
I agree with all of the above.

It feels like the last album where the songs were 'written', rather than assembled in Protools. I kind-of agree with you, Dingus - there's only three or four standout songs on it, but the mediocre stuff is much better than I remember.

Alex should be banned from layering guitars. It sucks the life out of the performances.

The drums are lovely... listen to the kick on the intro to 'Leave That Thing Alone'. Why can't they mix records like that these days?
[/quote]

I still think the best recorded sound of Neil Peart's drums are on Moving Pictures. That's the perfect Rush recording there is for me, the whole album sounds lush, open and dynamic.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1383602495' post='2266566']
I still think the best recorded sound of Neil Peart's drums are on Moving Pictures. That's the perfect Rush recording there is for me, the whole album sounds lush, open and dynamic.
[/quote]

Oh, aye - that's the pinnacle.And then you listen to the lifeless dirge that's CA and you think... is that progress?

[paul_5]

I've got Counterparts on vinyl tucked away upstairs, I might give it a spin this week...

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383599398' post='2266511']
I like a lot of things about this album . This is the one that marked a distinct about-turn and return to basics , no doubt influenced by the new music of the time that eschewed the grandiose over-production and sterility that had prevailed throughout the 1980's . I went to see them on the Counterparts tour and they were just as slick as ever.

Counterparts had a lot of potential and is a great -sounding record in terms of overall sonic quality , but is let down by having only maybe three decent songs on , in my opinion . A lot better than Roll The Bones, I suppose, that one didn't have any , or Presto that only had one song of any merit .
[/quote]
Agreed. RTB is an absolute piece of junk. Chain Lightning is the good song on Presto.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383599398' post='2266511']
let down by having only maybe three decent songs on , in my opinion . A lot better than Roll The Bones, I suppose, that one didn't have any[/quote]

Oof - I can't agree. Dreamline and Ghost of a Chance are fab IMO.

The rest is in 'filler' territory, mind.

[Johngh]

I've always liked Counterparts, it's a great album. By contrast, I bought Clockwork Angels on release day, and still not played it all the way through.

[Dingus]

Any discussion about Rush inevitably ends up with the same unanswerable question : why can't they seem to make a Rush album anymore ?

[analog kid]

Love the Bass on Alien Shore,Great fun to play as well

[KevB]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1383603810' post='2266596'] Oof - I can't agree. Dreamline and Ghost of a Chance are fab IMO. The rest is in 'filler' territory, mind. [/quote]

In terms of actual song writing quality I'd pick RtB over Counterpats any day. In addition to WoT's picks above the title track is good, I like The Big Wheel too whilst Bravado and You Bet Your Life are very listenable though not 'classics'. It's the last strong selection of melodies they recorded for me.

[paul_5]

I know that this is all subjective, but I really like Presto. For me the songwriting was really strong on that album, the sound of the album is massively over-polished, and Alex's guitars are übertinny but I really like the songs.

[ambient]

Each album is of its time, I think anyway. Roll the bones had some great tracks, ghost of a chance for example.

I sometimes think it's a case that people like a particular album or a band from from a particular period, they don't then like it that the band evolves, their playing changes, what they're actually listening to at the time is maybe different, then of course there are happenings in their personal lives that affect the song writing.

Personally I liked clockwork angels, but I'm not a huge fan of the early stuff.

[Conan]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1383651497' post='2266960']
Personally I liked clockwork angels, but I'm not a huge fan of the early stuff.
[/quote]

Personally I'm a huge fan of the early stuff. I don't much like Clockwork Angels.

That's the great thing about Rush though. Their career spans such a long time and covers so many styles that it is possible (and quite usual) for people to be fans of a certain era but to not like other periods.

I really like the simplicity and honesty of Counterparts. And I love Geddy's tone on the Jazz bass(es). I never cared for his Wal sound or style, with those rubber-band Funkmaster strings.

Dog Years is the standout track from this Rush era for me. Top lyrics too.

[ambient]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1383658111' post='2267124']


Personally I'm a huge fan of the early stuff. I don't much like Clockwork Angels.

That's the great thing about Rush though. Their career spans such a long time and covers so many styles that it is possible (and quite usual) for people to be fans of a certain era but to not like other periods.

I really like the simplicity and honesty of Counterparts. And I love Geddy's tone on the Jazz bass(es). I never cared for his Wal sound or style, with those rubber-band Funkmaster strings.

Dog Years is the standout track from this Rush era for me. Top lyrics too.
[/quote]

That's it though isn't it ?

They have evolved so much over the years, that it's quite possible to like a period but not another.

They don't want to keep producing yet another YYZ or Farewell to kings, they've done that, it's in the past this is now.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1383658671' post='2267143']
That's it though isn't it ?

They have evolved so much over the years, that it's quite possible to like a period but not another.

They don't want to keep producing yet another YYZ or Farewell to kings, they've done that, it's in the past this is now.
[/quote]

No-one is expecting them to write the same songs, but the production, arrangements and quality of songwriting has taken a huge backward step.

With regards to production, listen to something off CA and then immediately listen to a dynamically similar track off MP (or Counterparts, even).

CA sounds terrible.

Arrangements? The solo in Freewill. The break in the middle of AFTK. By-Tor. The play-out of Natural Science. The marimba solo on Mission. The bass line on Enemy Within. I could go on for hours, but I won't...!

i'm a big fan. I've got Test for Echo, Vapour Trails, CA, Snakes & Arrows. I've listened to them all hundreds of times.

But I'll be honest - I'm struggling to name any memorable moments or melodies.

[Leen2112]

I think...in the old days a rush record (vinyl) had 8 songs tops, 4 each side and all of them were class. When CD's came out there was some kind of rule you had to put 12+ songs on it! Hence the countless Rush album fillers.

[spongebob]

Every Rush topic always ends up an old vs. new debate!

I love the old stuff, and I love the new stuff. I'm a Rush fan, and I like how they've developed and changed through the years.

[ambient]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1383659433' post='2267170']


No-one is expecting them to write the same songs, but the production, arrangements and quality of songwriting has taken a huge backward step.

With regards to production, listen to something off CA and then immediately listen to a dynamically similar track off MP (or Counterparts, even).

CA sounds terrible.

Arrangements? The solo in Freewill. The break in the middle of AFTK. By-Tor. The play-out of Natural Science. The marimba solo on Mission. The bass line on Enemy Within. I could go on for hours, but I won't...!

i'm a big fan. I've got Test for Echo, Vapour Trails, CA, Snakes & Arrows. I've listened to them all hundreds of times.

But I'll be honest - I'm struggling to name any memorable moments or melodies.
[/quote]

Your opinion, cool. Not mine though, each has it's own character, and I like the new stuff.

That's music though, everyone has an opinion, and everyone's is valid.

Some people still hate Bob Dylan for going electric, others don't think there's been a good jazz album since 1950 something or other.

[Conan]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1383659433' post='2267170']
With regards to production, listen to something off CA and then immediately listen to a dynamically similar track off MP (or Counterparts, even).

CA sounds terrible.
[/quote]

Listening to the newly remixed Vapor Trails has made me very aware of this. I've hardly listened to that CD for years, but now it's constantly on the player! It's like a new Rush album. Now can they do the same with CA please?

[quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1383671728' post='2267428']
I'm a Rush fan, and I like how they've developed and changed through the years.
[/quote]

Me too. I'm a huge fan of the band and their music. But that doesn't mean that I can't be critical of stuff that I like less...