Which LED light? Your Experiences

[Phil Starr]

OK, we too have to take the plunge into lighting. We want to keep it simple, just to liven up our visuals without adding to the set up time or the already cluttered stage area so the four Led cans on a controller/ParBar type lights will suit us just fine.

One question is what level of light to go for. They don't all quote light output so it is hard to compare but the choice seems to be between the 3x3W tri-leds (PowerBar and equivalent) and the ones with 10mm leds (ParBar). I saw a band recently using the ParBars and they seemed bright enough. Would the more powerful lights give greater intensity of colour? Would they prove too bright in a usually restricted stage area. I know I could get a proper controller to dim them but to be honest I want to plug, forget and play.

If i can get away with a ParBar then that's great, more to spend on bass gear.

What are your experiences?

[Grangur]

I'm a lighting engineer by trade. I sell LED lighting to the construction industry for commercial use. I should say, however, I sell light fittings, not lamps. So I'm not pushing and particular lamp supplier. What I say is from my knowledge of the industry, not trying to sell any particular product.

First, watts is NO guide of the output. Good LED lighting is about efficiency and each supplier of the technology boasts its own figures on "Lumens per Watt", but the price tag is not cheap.

Poor/cheap LED is all a con, fooling the public into thinking they'll save money. The light output is poor in level and will often be blue in colour and become more blue through its life. It will also fade with time faster than the more expensive versions. The lamp life on the cheap ones will be poor too. They claim 50,000 hours (the industry standard life claim, but the cheap suppliers are living on the expectation that in 10,000 hours (1 year of 24/7 approx) you won't have the foggiest of where you bought it and wont have the receipt.

The price for a quality you would need to pay for a typical 50W dichroic low-voltage lamp replacement, from a good supplier is currently about £20.
The LED lamps I've seen in the retail sheds is all cheap cr@p. The colour of the LEDs in the lamp vary, but they're often blue on day 1. So what they'll be like in a year only time will tell.

The LED market right now is flooded with cheap, nasty LED products that won't last and is poor value for money. LED will save you money in terms of electricity, but the saving in power has to be greater than the cost of the lamps. In the case of the cheap lamps - those readily available to the public in the retail sheds the life most people get is about the same as a 50w low voltage lamp (from things I've heard). So the calculation you need to make is if you save 45W per lamp over 10,000 hours, will you get your money back?

Also if you don't use the room lighting much how much cash do you want tied up in light bulbs?

Even as a lighting engineer I don't have any LED lamp replacements in my house. I have replacement fittings, because I get them cheaper, but I don't see the value in replacement lamps.

[barkin]

In a simiar situation to the OP, I recently bought a couple of LED PAR56's - the Thomann (Stairville) cheapie ~30 quid each 151 LED ones.

While I'm sure there are better lights out there, they're fine for our needs, and a big improvement on repositioning the spotlight that normally points at the dartbaord in the Rat & Parrot.

I just have them fading between colours, and leave 'em to it.

Gonna get another couple any day now.

[Grangur]

Just re-read the OP... ahemm... Ignore what I posted if we're talking about stage lighting - you can't beat it for stage lighting. So much better than high power halogens.

[gary mac]

Still a useful reply for me Richard, as I've been thinking about replacing the six spot light bulbs in my kitchen ceiling light with LED's

[chris_b]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I think bands look better with lights, but I'm not a fan of LEDs. They have a bright cold light which I don't like. [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]We just bought a couple of boxes to sit at the side of the stage. 8 bulbs on each and connected to a controller. We didn't do a run through so the first time we saw them was when they were switched on just before the first number. They were so bright that the Home Guard could have used them in WW2. I couldn't see the fretboard. [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]It gets worse. When we started playing the lights started flashing, fast. It was instant epileptic fits time! The lights should be fine, after we’ve disabled the flashing and removed some of the bulbs. [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]In my experience you don't need a light show on stage, point that at the audience. The band just needs good lighting to make them stand out.[/font][/size]

[barkin]

Get around the too bright issue by spending less

And sound to light flashing stuff just looks like cheesy '70's disco IMO.

[discreet]

[quote name='barkin' timestamp='1383646162' post='2266880']
...a big improvement on repositioning the spotlight that normally points at the dartbaord in the Rat & Parrot.
[/quote]

[size=4] It's a glamorous business we're in, isn't it?[/size]

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1383644212' post='2266839']
So the calculation you need to make is if you save 45W per lamp over 10,000 hours, will you get your money back?
[/quote]

I make 45W over 10,000 hours equal to 450 kWh (units), which will cost £54 at 12p per unit.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1383648857' post='2266923']
Still a useful reply for me Richard, as I've been thinking about replacing the six spot light bulbs in my kitchen ceiling light with LED's
[/quote]

I've had a very good experience of LED Lights for domestic use. True a few years ago the colours were awful (blue) and output was low, but the ones I have now you can get in a range of whites (Warm, Cool, Daylight). The only problem I've had recently is that some cheap "warm whites" are too yellow. Always look at the colour temperature in the spec (warm white seems to range from 2700 to 3500K) than than the words, and if you don't like them send them back!

Also pay attention to the beam angle! a lot of them tend to be quite narrow (35 - 40 degrees),, but the ones I've gone for are 120 -140 degree (ish) and are far better for general lighting.

The ones I use tend to be around £8 each for a 5/6 watt one ([i]around[/i] the same output as a 50W Halogen).

Instant on, and Flyfisher has already done some sums. I have 13 of them in my kitchen alone and if they last 10000 hours (some probably already have), then according to FFs calcs that's £700 quid saved.

I have had a few premature failures, but the supplier I use (Homewatt) have always exchanged them without quibble - even one that failed after 18 months.

Out of interest they do claim 35000/50000 hours, and some of mine have failed early. It's not a lot of consolation, but only in one case has one of the LEDs itself failed - otherwise its always been the driving electronics (integrated in the bulb)


I'd say try them, but YMMV.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Count Bassy

[JapanAxe]

I have a KAM folding par bar. I'll use it in a small venue that just has room lights (many pubs and clubs for example). If the venue has even a few coloured spots, I won't bother. On a large stage it is not really enough, but better than nothing. You want 2 really, but my car is rammed as it is!

[The Dark Lord]

We use 4 x QTX SP-SW for our pub band. I think they have been replaced by the QTX SL-SW version though.

Two working in unison on a speaker stand with a T-Bar on top behind the band on a slow cycle through all of the available colours.

One in front of the band to the right (so as not to blind us right hand players) on a yellow (limelight) setting to light the band up.

One just beside (and pointing at) the drum kit - this one is on a sensitive sound to light setting.

About £90 to £100 per light.

Have a look at the pics. They are not "photoshopped" in any way. Those are just snapshots from video footage.

Quite good we think.

[attachment=147763:Daphne.png] [sharedmedia=core:attachments:134901]

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1383641576' post='2266796']
OK, we too have to take the plunge into lighting. We want to keep it simple, just to liven up our visuals without adding to the set up time or the already cluttered stage area so the four Led cans on a controller/ParBar type lights will suit us just fine.

One question is what level of light to go for. They don't all quote light output so it is hard to compare but the choice seems to be between the 3x3W tri-leds (PowerBar and equivalent) and the ones with 10mm leds (ParBar). I saw a band recently using the ParBars and they seemed bright enough. Would the more powerful lights give greater intensity of colour? Would they prove too bright in a usually restricted stage area. I know I could get a proper controller to dim them but to be honest I want to plug, forget and play.

If i can get away with a ParBar then that's great, more to spend on bass gear.

What are your experiences?
[/quote]

I have two of the Kam Mk1 Par bars and they have worked great in slightly darkened room or stage area, but don't do much if the pub has all its house lights on. The newer ones are more powerful so can only be better. Of course there are better/more powerful ones out there (I've got some of those as well), but the difference between no lights and a couple of ParBars is tremendous.

My experiences have been good. Cool running, compact and robust. Up and running in seconds, and no waiting for them to cool down before moving them. Efficiency isn't generally a concern since it's generally someone else's electricity, but the cool running can be a real bonus in a cramped pub etc, when they're just above your head.


I've always bought second hand, and consequently have had a few problems with LED failures, and occasionally the driving transistor. Thankfully I'm handy that way so have spent a few evenings soldering new LEDs in. In fact I now look for second hand ones with failed LEDs as you can pick them up fairly cheap.
Probably not economically sensible if I was charging for my time, but I love tinkering with this stuff.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1383758079' post='2268686']
I have two of the Kam Mk1 Par bars and they have worked great in slightly darkened room or stage area, but don't do much if the pub has all its house lights on. The newer ones are more powerful so can only be better. Of course there are better/more powerful ones out there (I've got some of those as well), but the difference between no lights and a couple of ParBars is tremendous.


[/quote]

I guess the more powerful ones are the 7x3W tri-led lights which seem to be about £100 a set more expensive. Are they worth the difference? One or two reviews suggest they are a bit overpowering on full power, though I don't propose pointing them at anyone's eyes. I'd rather put the £100 towards bass gear but it'd kill me to think I'd bought something inadequate or even just a bit limp for the sake of £100. What do you think? Anyone regretted either purchasing the lower powered ones or wishing they'd not bought the mega ones?

thanks for al the responses so far.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1383816950' post='2269378']
I guess the more powerful ones are the 7x3W tri-led lights which seem to be about £100 a set more expensive. Are they worth the difference? One or two reviews suggest they are a bit overpowering on full power, though I don't propose pointing them at anyone's eyes. I'd rather put the £100 towards bass gear but it'd kill me to think I'd bought something inadequate or even just a bit limp for the sake of £100. What do you think? Anyone regretted either purchasing the lower powered ones or wishing they'd not bought the mega ones?

thanks for al the responses so far.
[/quote]

When I said the newer ones I actually meant the later versions of the ParBar - mine are MkI and I know that the MkII claimed to be 30% brighter. I think they are now up to the MkIV, but not sure how bright these are. By contrast when Kam first brought out the PowerBar I think they claimed to be 400% brighter than the then current ParBar.

I do have some of the 18 x 1W QTX ones, and they are indeed very bright (you wouldn't want to look straight at them). Great if they are high up and 15 feet away, but you wouldn't want them just above head hight and close to you.

[gazhowe]

LEDJ Q Colours are worth looking at for flood type stage lighting and have in built programs so no additional controller needs to be purchased. One each side of the stage/band area would be sufficient but you may also wish to purchase additional lights to provide some variation to the wash colour.

[crez5150]

We use GDS Lightware.... expensive but it's built to last. IP Rated so you can use them outdoors. Wireless DMX control if needed and a lot of hire companies have stock which means for the bigger events we can hire in more if needed and still look uniform.