Bravewood vs Fender Custom Shop

[xilddx]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1384125805' post='2273143']
"Hi BC, I fancy a new bass"

"Nonononononono you don't NEED one"

Have I wandered into a parallel universe or something?
[/quote]One needs to examine the source of one's desires

[thebassist]

This is 100% subjective of course and I've never had a Fender Custom Shop but I've had two Bravewood Jazz Basses and used to have two all original 1964 Fender Jazz Basses. I've since sold both the Bravewoods and my least favourite Fender – I don't intend to ever sell my remaining '64 Jazz.

[b]Looks: [/b]I think the Bravewoods do look very good indeed but when you have a real one sat next to it you can definitely tell the difference in my opinion.

[b]Feeling/Playability:[/b] Although very good, the Bravewood necks didn't feel like my '64 Jazz Basses to play. They were quite close but not as smooth – personally, I just don't think that anybody can really recreate the thousands of hours playing time that has been put into an old bass.

[b]Price:[/b] I think Bravewoods are great value for money. I've no idea what a genuine '64 Jazz Bass goes for nowadays but I'm guessing it's going to be upwards of £5000 whereas I noticed a Bravewood Jaco Jazz Bass on the forum today available for around £1350. That's bloody reasonable in my opinion.

[redstriper]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384129734' post='2273166']
One needs to examine the source of one's desires
[/quote]

Best advice I've ever seen here or anywhere.

Why do we think owning more stuff will make us happy?

[Beedster]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384048065' post='2272333']
It seems to me like you just fancy a new bass And looks seem to be one of the main driving factors.

If you really want to buy your 'perfect' bass, you need to PLAY a whole bunch of basses. Eventually you will find one that floats your rubber duck. It will attract your attention because it looks ace and you feel compelled to pick it up, then you will find it feels so lovely and gorgeous in your hands and magical notes and flowery phrases seem to flow from you, like this is the best you've ever played. You will get a sound that will make your belly tingle, a sound you've never had before.

Anything else and it's not the perfect bass for you. Then give it 12 months to see if, really, you just fancied a new bass.
[/quote]

Yep, like my current Precision (probably my longest tenure with a bass), a £300 MIJ that, for me, beats all my other Precisions hands down, and that includes many from the 70's and a few from the 60's that cost substantially more.

Nearly every bass for which I've has GAS has disappointed me eventually

[cameltoe]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384088052' post='2272560']
...I would also like to replace the 3 I currently have, with one really good one.

[/quote]
[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1384179326' post='2273575']
Best advice I've ever seen here or anywhere.

Why do we think owning more stuff will make us happy?
[/quote]

I want to own [i]less[/i] stuff, just better.

Bear in mind- i'm talking about my dream bass here. I think I've now put in enough bass playing hours to deserve a top-end instrument that I can cherish for many years to come, that will still be looked after, taken out of it's case and played frequently long after I've given up the gigging life. I don't think there is anything wrong with that- this is not irrational GAS. This is a long-term plan to replace my three mid-price Fenders with one, ultimate bass, drawing on all the things I've liked and not liked in my previous basses. I've not found myself suddenly lusting after a Stingray for no reason.

The only question mark, is how can you make a decision without playing the two options I've listed, as both would have to be custom-made? That's the idea of this thread, to gain as much info as possible. Bravewood are local to me, but I've never seen one in the flesh. CS I've played and liked, but are almost £1000 more than a Bravewood and not hand made. I like handmade, knowing someone's crafted that from scratch just for me- it makes me feel warm inside.

Like I said in my original post, I have a good idea of what I like and don't like in a bass now, but that doesn't guarantee anything. Some basses look good on paper but don't feel right. And vice versa.

I could just wait, as recommended, and when finances allow, maybe take a trip to Camden and see if something vintage-ish speaks to me. Played in instruments feel far more comfortable to me.

None of my current basses, as reasonably good as they are, will gain heirloom status with me, I want one that will!
Either that or they'll have to bury it with me!

My brother in law plays bass. He once gave me a piece of advice I felt was good but i never followed- Once you've played bass for a few years, you've done your time with cheaper basses and you've decided playing bass is for you and you [b]will[/b] stick at it, don't bother with in-between basses, just go straight to the top and buy a good one. It'll save all the messing around.

He did this and went and bought a Rickenbacker 4001 which is the only bass he's owned for the past 15 years. He'll never sell it, and I'd like to think he's got me on his will to take over the ownership if he snuffs it!

I'd prob trade it for a P bass though.....

[xilddx]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384203373' post='2274038']

I want to own [i]less[/i] stuff, just better.

Bear in mind- i'm talking about my dream bass here. I think I've now put in enough bass playing hours to deserve a top-end instrument that I can cherish for many years to come, that will still be looked after, taken out of it's case and played frequently long after I've given up the gigging life. I don't think there is anything wrong with that- this is not irrational GAS. [b]This is a long-term plan to replace my three mid-price Fenders with one, ultimate bass[/b], drawing on all the things I've liked and not liked in my previous basses. I've not found myself suddenly lusting after a Stingray for no reason.

The only question mark, is how can you make a decision without playing the two options I've listed, as both would have to be custom-made? That's the idea of this thread, to gain as much info as possible. Bravewood are local to me, but I've never seen one in the flesh. CS I've played and liked, but are almost £1000 more than a Bravewood and not hand made. I like handmade, knowing someone's crafted that from scratch just for me- it makes me feel warm inside.

Like I said in my original post, I have a good idea of what I like and don't like in a bass now, but that doesn't guarantee anything. Some basses look good on paper but don't feel right. And vice versa.

I could just wait, as recommended, and when finances allow, maybe take a trip to Camden and see if something vintage-ish speaks to me. Played in instruments feel far more comfortable to me.

None of my current basses, as reasonably good as they are, will gain heirloom status with me, I want one that will!
Either that or they'll have to bury it with me!

My brother in law plays bass. He once gave me a piece of advice I felt was good but i never followed- Once you've played bass for a few years, you've done your time with cheaper basses and you've decided playing bass is for you and you [b]will[/b] stick at it, don't bother with in-between basses, just go straight to the top and buy a good one. It'll save all the messing around.

He did this and went and bought a Rickenbacker 4001 which is the only bass he's owned for the past 15 years. He'll never sell it, and I'd like to think he's got me on his will to take over the ownership if he snuffs it!

I'd prob trade it for a P bass though.....
[/quote]

There is no such animal as 'the ultimate bass'. For there to be, you must be a constant. If you are any sort of musician, your musical motives and inspirations, and your equipment requirements, will be changing over time as you journey along your musical path of learning and expression.

If you feel your basses are inhibiting your journey, that is one thing. Thinking a new bass will speed your journey is quite another.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384204167' post='2274049']
There is no such animal as 'the ultimate bass'. For there to be, you must be a constant. If you are any sort of musician, your musical motives and inspirations, and your equipment requirements, will be changing over time as you journey along your musical path of learning and expression.

If you feel your basses are inhibiting your journey, that is one thing. Thinking a new bass will speed your journey is quite another.
[/quote]

That's not really what I said now, is it? I don't think I once referred to wanting this bass to improve my playing, so I don't really know where you got that from.

As much as it's been fun debating with you the pro's and con's of ever needing to buy any bass ever again, I feel it's not out of the realms of possibility to buy something with an eye the long term. My brother in law being a perfect example. He hasn't spent nearly as much money as I have while I've been messing around buying, selling, chopping, changing. If he sold his Rick tomorrow he wouldn't have lost hardly anything.

How long have you owned your 1983 Jazz? Will you ever sell it? Am I not entitled to feel the same way about an instrument?

I know what works for me as a player, through trial and error, and I'd soon like to buy a [b]very[/b] good example of that instrument that will hopefully overcome some of the niggles I've had with the craftsmanship and certain specifications of off-the-shelf models I've owned in the past.

Sure, my musical 'motives and inspirations' have and will change over the years, but i'm not the type of guy that will suddenly decide I need to sound like Stuart Zender so I'll have to go buy a Warwick. Maybe you are, but i'm more about just being myself when I play.

I'm not saying this will be the last bass I will ever buy, just one I'd want to keep for ever.

Edited November 11, 2013 by cameltoe

[xilddx]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384204487' post='2274057']
That's not really what I said now, is it?
[/quote]

Are you sure?

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384203373' post='2274038']

This is a long-term plan to replace my three mid-price Fenders with one, ultimate bass, drawing on all the things I've liked and not liked in my previous basses.
[/quote]

I'll drink to that.

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384204167' post='2274049']
There is no such animal as 'the ultimate bass'. For there to be, you must be a constant. If you are any sort of musician, your musical motives and inspirations, and your equipment requirements, will be changing over time as you journey along your musical path of learning and expression.

If you feel your basses are inhibiting your journey, that is one thing. Thinking a new bass will speed your journey is quite another.
[/quote]

In the interests of discussion and not attack, it sounds like you're laying down a rule there.

Do rules suit us all? Who sets the rule and defines it? Perhaps that statement suits you and your personal subjectivity, but does that rule you layed down fit us all? Many a musician finds the instrument for them and sticks, not the majority, but a good minority.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384204691' post='2274062']
Are you sure?
[/quote]

Yes. Show me where I say I need a good bass to improve my playing.

[Dingus]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384203373' post='2274038']

I want to own [i]less[/i] stuff, just better.

Bear in mind- i'm talking about my dream bass here. I think I've now put in enough bass playing hours to deserve a top-end instrument that I can cherish for many years to come, that will still be looked after, taken out of it's case and played frequently long after I've given up the gigging life. I don't think there is anything wrong with that- this is not irrational GAS. This is a long-term plan to replace my three mid-price Fenders with one, ultimate bass, drawing on all the things I've liked and not liked in my previous basses. I've not found myself suddenly lusting after a Stingray for no reason.

The only question mark, is how can you make a decision without playing the two options I've listed, as both would have to be custom-made? That's the idea of this thread, to gain as much info as possible. Bravewood are local to me, but I've never seen one in the flesh. CS I've played and liked, but are almost £1000 more than a Bravewood and not hand made. I like handmade, knowing someone's crafted that from scratch just for me- it makes me feel warm inside.

Like I said in my original post, I have a good idea of what I like and don't like in a bass now, but that doesn't guarantee anything. Some basses look good on paper but don't feel right. And vice versa.

I could just wait, as recommended, and when finances allow, maybe take a trip to Camden and see if something vintage-ish speaks to me. Played in instruments feel far more comfortable to me.

None of my current basses, as reasonably good as they are, will gain heirloom status with me, I want one that will!
Either that or they'll have to bury it with me!

My brother in law plays bass. He once gave me a piece of advice I felt was good but i never followed- Once you've played bass for a few years, you've done your time with cheaper basses and you've decided playing bass is for you and you [b]will[/b] stick at it, don't bother with in-between basses, just go straight to the top and buy a good one. It'll save all the messing around.

He did this and went and bought a Rickenbacker 4001 which is the only bass he's owned for the past 15 years. He'll never sell it, and I'd like to think he's got me on his will to take over the ownership if he snuffs it!

I'd prob trade it for a P bass though.....
[/quote]

One thing working in your favour is that you know you want a Fender-style bass, presumably from what you have said a Precision with a 1.625 inch nut width. If you are familiar with and like that design then it would take quite a lot for a decent builder to irrevokably mess that up for you . It's a tried and tested design and you should at least end up with something in that ballpark. I would back off on the heirloom status thing , though. Don't put yourself under that "once in a lifetime" pressure . If you want to buy a bass and can afford it then buy it and hope for the best. What's the worst that can happen ? You might get the bass of your dreams , or it is a let-down ( unlikely) have to cut your losses and in the process learn a bit more about what you do and don't want from a bass. Either way , it will all work out O.K in the end.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1384206060' post='2274083']
In the interests of discussion and not attack, it sounds like you're laying down a rule there.

Do rules suit us all? Who sets the rule and defines it? Perhaps that statement suits you and your personal subjectivity, but does that rule you layed down fit us all? Many a musician finds the instrument for them and sticks, not the majority, but a good minority.
[/quote]

Not a rule, just a philosophical proposition. It's got nowt to do with finding a bass, it's about finding oneself. One should ideally play THROUGH an instrument, not ON it. It's a lot easier to find a bass to play on than it is to find oneself through it. If a bass is decent, one can find oneself through it. The best bass is the bass you don't even notice you're playing.

Or am I just being a preposterous ol ****?

[xilddx]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384206433' post='2274088']
Yes. Show me where I say I need a good bass to improve my playing.
[/quote]

I don't need to. I can read between the lines. The same lines I wrote myself

[cameltoe]

That's very good advice, thankyou.

A slim 1.625, possibly ever so slightly narrower! Interested to feel the neck profile of the Nate Mendel precision.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384207008' post='2274102']


I don't need to. I can read between the lines. The same lines I wrote myself
[/quote]

You're basically just trolling now, dude.

[molan]

I recently played a brand new Fender CS. It was a sunburst stack knob Jazz in the NOS finish.

Quite simply one of the best sounding J basses I've ever heard. It didn't feel like a worn in relic, or original, Fender but it really was a cracking instrument.

Much more snap and bite to it than I would have imagine for a passive bass but roll off those tone controls and it sounded immediately 'vintage'.

I haven't played a recent CS Precision apart from a couple of Pinos. Both of those were very nice as well and each had some slightly different characteristics from the other (which I think is a good thing, I'm not a fan of homogenised basses!).

I've only tried one Bravewood and it looked great. Tonally I felt it was a bit bland and one dimensional. Of course, if that 'dimension' was the one you're after then it would have been perfect. Just didn't blow me away I guess

I've played a few Nash basses. Much patchier in terms of look and feel. Some good ones out there but also some not quite as nice. Some of the J variants have huge clubby necks which feel quite wrong to me.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1384206840' post='2274097']
One thing working in your favour is that you know you want a Fender-style bass, presumably from what you have said a Precision with a 1.625 inch nut width. If you are familiar with and like that design then it would take quite a lot for a decent builder to irrevokably mess that up for you . It's a tried and tested design and you should at least end up with something in that ballpark. I would back off on the heirloom status thing , though. Don't put yourself under that "once in a lifetime" pressure . If you want to buy a bass and can afford it then buy it and hope for the best. What's the worst that can happen ? You might get the bass of your dreams , or it is a let-down ( unlikely) have to cut your losses and in the process learn a bit more about what you do and don't want from a bass. Either way , it will all work out O.K in the end.
[/quote]

What about the depth and width throughout the length of the neck? Fret size?

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384206908' post='2274101']


Not a rule, just a philosophical proposition. It's got nowt to do with finding a bass, it's about finding oneself. One should ideally play THROUGH an instrument, not ON it. It's a lot easier to find a bass to play on than it is to find oneself through it. If a bass is decent, one can find oneself through it. The best bass is the bass you don't even notice you're playing.

Or am I just being a preposterous ol ****?
[/quote]

I wouldn't say you are! Nothing wrong with getting deep when you feel it, nice one :-)

[cameltoe]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384206908' post='2274101']


Not a rule, just a philosophical proposition. It's got nowt to do with finding a bass, it's about finding oneself. One should ideally play THROUGH an instrument, not ON it. It's a lot easier to find a bass to play on than it is to find oneself through it. If a bass is decent, one can find oneself through it. The best bass is the bass you don't even notice you're playing.

Or am I just being a preposterous ol ****?
[/quote]

I agree with all of that, and that's what I'm hoping to find. If its not possible from Bravewood or Fender CS, then maybe I'll get lucky like you did and have a bass speak to me one day. I've felt I've been very close with previous gear, but there have always been 1 or 2 issues that, in a dream world, I'd have designed differently. Which is why I was thinking 'custom'.

Is any of this making sense yet?

[cameltoe]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384206908' post='2274101']


Not a rule, just a philosophical proposition. It's got nowt to do with finding a bass, it's about finding oneself. One should ideally play THROUGH an instrument, not ON it. It's a lot easier to find a bass to play on than it is to find oneself through it. If a bass is decent, one can find oneself through it. The best bass is the bass you don't even notice you're playing.

Or am I just being a preposterous ol ****?
[/quote]

But it does contradict what you said earlier, about how a true musician should be changing their gear constantly, in line with their musical inspirations and requirements, or however you worded it.

[AntLockyer]

Those ones that speak don't have to be custom or expensive. I bought something mid range in 2005 and despite buying a couple more since, it is the one I pick up and the one I love.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1384207918' post='2274115']
Those ones that speak don't have to be custom or expensive. I bought something mid range in 2005 and despite buying a couple more since, it is the one I pick up and the one I love.
[/quote]

Absolutely true, and lucky you!

[cameltoe]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1384207918' post='2274115']
Those ones that speak don't have to be custom or expensive. I bought something mid range in 2005 and despite buying a couple more since, it is the one I pick up and the one I love.
[/quote]

Absolutely true, and lucky you!

[xilddx]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384207180' post='2274105']
You're basically just trolling now, dude.
[/quote]

No I am not. I have been on the same journey as you, I know what it feels like, I bought and sold basses before what I have now. Warwick or Fender Jazz?, Warwick or Fender Jazz? Warwick or Fender Jazz? I played quite a few of both. I ended up with a gorgeous 1983 USA Fender Standard Jazz. Romance took me there. I adore it, I stare at it, and when I strap the bastard on I forget I'm playing it. It's not perfect, it needs a side shim, fine adjustment with the neck pitch, I had to level the frets, the tuners are slightly different to each other, it has a little dead spot on the G, it's a very simple, slightly faulty bass. But it facilitates my music in the right way. I didn't know I wanted it, I just fancied buying it when I saw it on here. It was an wonderful accident motivated by a romantic association with childhood lust for a Fender.

So no, I am not trolling. I am trying to get you to think about the source of your desires so you have a small chance to get what you REALLY want. Perhaps you would simply prefer measurements and assumptions.