Bravewood vs Fender Custom Shop

[cameltoe]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384208232' post='2274120']


No I am not. I have been on the same journey as you, I know what it feels like, I bought and sold basses before what I have now. Warwick or Fender Jazz?, Warwick or Fender Jazz? Warwick or Fender Jazz? I played quite a few of both. I ended up with a gorgeous 1983 USA Fender Standard Jazz. Romance took me there. I adore it, I stare at it, and when I strap the bastard on I forget I'm playing it. It's not perfect, it needs a side shim, fine adjustment with the neck pitch, I had to level the frets, the tuners are slightly different to each other, it has a little dead spot on the G, it's a very simple, slightly faulty bass. But it facilitates my music in the right way. I didn't know I wanted it, I just fancied buying it when I saw it on here. It was an wonderful accident motivated by a romantic association with childhood lust for a Fender.

So no, I am not trolling. I am trying to get you to think about the source of your desires so you have a small chance to get what you REALLY want. Perhaps you would simply prefer measurements and assumptions.
[/quote]

Nope, I just understand what measurements tend to work for me, and which have flared up tendonitis in my left forearm to the point of not being able to play without it feeling like I've broken my arm and the bones are rubbing together.

I have agreed with most of what you have said, and I've taken on board the part about a perfect bass finding me. So much so that I feel it's probably a better idea to wait, and let something find me.

Everything you get from your jazz is what I'd like to have.

[redstriper]

Ordering a custom bass is a big risk no matter how many details you specify.
The essence that a makes a bass 'the one' for you is invisible and irrational in many cases.
Often, it doesn't reveal itself immediately and it can be found in the least expected place when you stop looking.

I went through dozens of basses before realising I had 'the one' all the time.

Good luck with the quest

[Dingus]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384207295' post='2274108']
What about the depth and width throughout the length of the neck? Fret size?
[/quote]

All of those things are important, but can be mostly be changed after the event if you want., albeit at a cost If the neck is too large in any dimension it can be reshaped , and refrets are straightforward . It's also quite possible that even if those things weren't ideal on first aquaintance, the O.P could learn to like them . That has happened to me before now. on a few occasions . I bought a bass a couple of years ago without ever playing it that had vintage -style small fretwire that I had overlooked as a detail and it felt wierd at first but now I love it. . I could have sold the bass or got it refretted , but I accepted it and went with it. That's just one example.

You are right about buying without playing beforehand being a gamble , Nige , but are the consequences really [i]that [/i]serious? People are inquisitive by nature , and the next bass always holds the greatest promise.

My advice to the O.P would be to check out some off-the-shelf basses before ordering a custom bass if at all possible , because he could very easily find something that fulfilled his needs and desires just as well for less money . A new Am St Fender Precision with Custom Shop pickup now fitted as standard would be my first recommendation , and then take it from there . They aren't reliced , but if they feel good , does it really matter?

Edited November 11, 2013 by Dingus

[Owen]

One bass to rule them all? Entirely possible. I have been playing the same DB for the last 20 years. Yes, others are nice but I do not have any DB GAS.

Mr CT, if you fancy a Bravewood or a 2nd hand CS then just do it. The new Bravewood will hold at the very least 75% of it's value and the 2nd hand CS will hold 95% of it's value. If you get one and then 2 years later want a change, so what?

[xilddx]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384208634' post='2274123']
Nope, I just understand what measurements tend to work for me, and which have flared up tendonitis in my left forearm to the point of not being able to play without it feeling like I've broken my arm and the bones are rubbing together.

I have agreed with most of what you have said, and I've taken on board the part about a perfect bass finding me. So much so that I feel it's probably a better idea to wait, and let something find me.

Everything you get from your jazz is what I'd like to have.
[/quote]

Was your tendonitis diagnosed? Are you sure it's not tendinosis?

The act of playing a bass is possibly the cause, and it will not really minimise risk if the neck measurements are slightly different. It would be more postural problems, the angle of the wrist and forearm, that would exacerbate what is possibly a chronic injury caused by excessive periods of Flexion and ulnar deviation, and possibly over-supination of the forearm.

It's really more about what feels 'right' to you. Texture is even an important consideration in how a neck feels. It also depends on how the bass hangs on a strap and when sitting upright, or slouching on the sofa. The first fret can be further or closer, the neck higher or lower, different angles. What do you do most? If you practice sitting on the sofa, then the rarer rehearsal and gig can make the bass feel somewhat alien as it will be positioned differently. It's not normally an problem, but some people notice.

I'm on your side man, I want you to get your perfect bass.

Edited November 11, 2013 by xilddx

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1384208897' post='2274130']


All of those things are important, but can be mostly be changed after the event if you want., albeit at a cost If the neck is too large in any dimension it can be reshaped , and refrets are straightforward . It's also quite possible that even if those things weren't ideal on first aquaintance, the O.P could learn to like them . That has happened to me before now. on a few occasions . I bought a bass a couple of years ago without ever playing it that had vintage -style small fretwire that I had overlooked as a detail and it felt wierd at first but now I love it. . I could have sold the bass or got it refretted , but I accepted it and went with it. That's just one example.

You are right about buying without playing beforehand being a gamble , Nige , but are the consequences really [i]that [/i]serious? People are inquisitive by nature , and the next bass always holds the greatest promise.

My advice to the O.P would be to check out some off-the-shelf basses before ordering a custom bass if at all possible , because he could very easily find something that fulfilled his needs and desires just as well for less money . A new Am St Fender Precision with Custom Shop pickup now fitted as standard would be my first recommendation , and then take it from there . They aren't reliced , but if they feel good , does it really matter?
[/quote]

I also love vintage fret wire, after it feeling weird at first. Now it's something I definitely look for.

I had an Am. St. (2005) that I just didn't get along with. It felt too engineered, and I couldn't really connect with it. Everything felt hard, cold, lifeless- although it was very good, I hardly played it because of this.

On paper (to make it easier), my design would look something like this:

Extremely Lightweight body, with slim profile- (like my roadworn). Possibly ash.
SD SPB1 pickup
Vintage Bridge with threaded saddles.
Gotoh GBR640's
1.625, possibly even smaller nut width. (1.615, similar to my Jazz bass)
Soft V profile, from 1st-7th/9th fret, rounding out to slim C shape.
Vintage fret wire, dressed down to flat top profile
7.25" fretboard radius
Maple neck
Nitro paint
Colour not really important, but the AV '57 in White blond transparent has always floated my boat.
Mild relic'ing on body, slightly heavier on neck- not really for looks, but so it feels more played in and comfortable, and so I'm not afraid to take it out and use it.

Everything on that list I've tried and liked above the alternatives. I guess what you guys are trying to say, however, is all put together in one instrument, would it still amount to an instrument that felt really good to me? I don't know either. In theory yes, in reality I realise I could pick up a bass tomorrow with none of those attributes and absolutely love it. Hasn't happened yet though.

[xilddx]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384213854' post='2274206']
I also love vintage fret wire, after it feeling weird at first. Now it's something I definitely look for.

I had an Am. St. (2005) that I just didn't get along with. It felt too engineered, and I couldn't really connect with it. Everything felt hard, cold, lifeless- although it was very good, I hardly played it because of this.

On paper (to make it easier), my design would look something like this:

Extremely Lightweight body, with slim profile- (like my roadworn). Possibly ash.
SD SPB1 pickup
Vintage Bridge with threaded saddles.
Gotoh GBR640's
1.625, possibly even smaller nut width. (1.615, similar to my Jazz bass)
Soft V profile, from 1st-7th/9th fret, rounding out to slim C shape.
Vintage fret wire, dressed down to flat top profile
7.25" fretboard radius
Maple neck
Nitro paint
Colour not really important, but the AV '57 in White blond transparent has always floated my boat.
Mild relic'ing on body, slightly heavier on neck- not really for looks, but so it feels more played in and comfortable, and so I'm not afraid to take it out and use it.

Everything on that list I've tried and liked above the alternatives. I guess what you guys are trying to say, however, is all put together in one instrument, would it still amount to an instrument that felt really good to me? I don't know either. In theory yes, in reality I realise I could pick up a bass tomorrow with none of those attributes and absolutely love it. Hasn't happened yet though.
[/quote]

Honestly, I'm not trolling, but those specs are no guarantee of anything at all really. And neck dive with a very light body will probably put more strain on your wrist, forearm and shoulder.

[LukeFRC]

specific enough you will probably need to go custom. If I were you I would get the parts made by USCG and then find a willing luthier to fettle the things together.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384214665' post='2274212']


Honestly, I'm not trolling, but those specs are no guarantee of anything at all really. And neck dive with a very light body will probably put more strain on your wrist, forearm and shoulder.
[/quote]

No, you're quite right- some basses just have magic in them, some don't. No rhyme or reason for it I guess.

I have got the GBR640 tuners on the list to counteract neck dive though, which they do.

[Legion]

Like Nige, this comment is meant to be constructive, although it may present challenges. Much like a band (IMO) it is about the sum of the parts and not the individual. Making a band out of "dream" musicians might create something amazing. Or it might create the most unmusical pile of bollox ever.
It's a tough decision because there will always be a small amount of risk that a custom instrument ticks all your theoretical boxes but turns out not to be "the one".
Ultimately this is why I feel trying first (ie buying second hand or hanging up on the wall of a shop) means you get to de-risk the process.
I've bought plenty of basses unseen, but never custom ordered.
I'd recommend trying a few Mike Lulls

[xilddx]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384241325' post='2274251']
No, you're quite right- some basses just have magic in them, some don't. No rhyme or reason for it I guess.

I have got the GBR640 tuners on the list to counteract neck dive though, which they do.
[/quote]

Cool on the tuners.

But the magic will be coming from you mate, not the bass

[6v6]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1384213854' post='2274206']
On paper (to make it easier), my design would look something like this:

Extremely Lightweight body, with slim profile- (like my roadworn). Possibly ash.
SD SPB1 pickup
Vintage Bridge with threaded saddles.
Gotoh GBR640's
1.625, possibly even smaller nut width. (1.615, similar to my Jazz bass)
Soft V profile, from 1st-7th/9th fret, rounding out to slim C shape.
Vintage fret wire, dressed down to flat top profile
7.25" fretboard radius
Maple neck
Nitro paint
Colour not really important, but the AV '57 in White blond transparent has always floated my boat.
Mild relic'ing on body, slightly heavier on neck- not really for looks, but so it feels more played in and comfortable, and so I'm not afraid to take it out and use it.
[/quote]

If you haven't already, try a Fender Nate Mendel sig precision - it has most of what you're specifying other than the V profile (it is narrower than a US standard precision). I tried one recently and they are excellent. I ended up preferring the more vintage sound of the US standard in the end, but the NM was very good.

[Dingus]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384214665' post='2274212']
And neck dive with a very light body will probably put more strain on your wrist, forearm and shoulder.
[/quote]

This is something I hear a lot lately , and it's a bit of a misconception . All Fender-style basses, neck dive when seated and playing the guitar on your lap without a strap on. It is inherent to that design. That ,however, is absolutely no indication of whether the bass will neck-dive when balanced on a strap. Some Fender-stryle basses neck dive, some don't , but the body weight has very little to do with that . Plenty of 12-14 pound boat anchor '70's Jazz Basses neck dive , but it's more to do with the weight of the neck in relation to the balance points of where the strap pins are than it is to do with the weight of the body. in relation to the neck .

The upshot of all this is that if you have a Fender-style bass made with a lightweight body - as is increasingly common nowadays- providing you specify lightweight tuners, it will probably balance , unless the builder has selected some extraordinarily heavy maple for the neck . It's worth mentioning in relation to body weight though, that very lightweight swamp ash - highly desirable for its' lightweight and resonance - and especially lightweight alder , is in increasingly short supply , and so more and more builders are going the route of using heavier wood and chambering it . That gives a slightly different tone, to a solid piece of lighter wood but not in a negative or adverse way.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Dingus

[merello]

[quote name='police squad' timestamp='1383819176' post='2269427']
It's lovely to play. Feels perfect.
Pics of mine

A shot of it in action
[/quote]
Is that Daniel Craig singing 'roxanne.'......

[police squad]

[xilddx]

[quote name='merello' timestamp='1384260099' post='2274506']

Is that Daniel Craig singing 'roxanne.'......
[/quote] that's what I thought too

[BassBod]

Your Spec sounds a lot like the Bravewood that me and Happy Jack owned…a very nice bass indeed.

[attachment=148284:DSCN1155.JPG]

[cameltoe]

[quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1384272724' post='2274700']
Your Spec sounds a lot like the Bravewood that me and Happy Jack owned…a very nice bass indeed.

[attachment=148284:DSCN1155.JPG]
[/quote]

Can I have it?

[BassBod]

Unfortunately no idea where it is these days….but if I had the cash to hand I'd track it down. Best "fender" neck I've ever played.

[EddieG]

I previously owned a Bravewood "Jaco" fretless, it was the first that John ever built. I've never owned or played a Fender CS relic, but based on pictures I've seen John's work smokes the Custom Shop in my opinion. For instance, the Jaco Pastorius relic was about £3.5k when I ordered my Bravewood, and the wear patterns looked like they'd been masked off with a stencil and sprayed around! They might have improved now, but they looked very amateurish back then, and nowhere near worth that much.

My Bravewood was a great sounding bass, the neck was absolutely amazing, the back looked like the neck of an old cello or something, and if it had been a fretted bass I'd still have it.

[thebassist]

[quote name='EddieG' timestamp='1384388057' post='2276238']
I previously owned a Bravewood "Jaco" fretless, it was the first that John ever built. I've never owned or played a Fender CS relic, but based on pictures I've seen John's work smokes the Custom Shop in my opinion. For instance, the Jaco Pastorius relic was about £3.5k when I ordered my Bravewood, and the wear patterns looked like they'd been masked off with a stencil and sprayed around! They might have improved now, but they looked very amateurish back then, and nowhere near worth that much.

My Bravewood was a great sounding bass, the neck was absolutely amazing, the back looked like the neck of an old cello or something, and if it had been a fretted bass I'd still have it.
[/quote]

I had a Bravewood Jaco fretless too - I wish I'd kept it and had it fretted now. Did you ever consider doing that?

[EddieG]

Yeh, I really did and John said a while back that he would strip the epoxy and fret it for me. But when it came down to it I felt that the bass was built to be a fretless, and it should stay that way. The fella who bought it was really impressed too, but because the fretboard followed the shape of the '62 Jazz closely he couldn't get the action down where he wanted, so sold it on but the buyer is over the moon with it, so I think it's found a permanent home.

And if I had the money that John's asking [i]now[/i] I think I'd get a fretted one built. His work is unrivalled in my opinion.

[thebassist]

[quote name='EddieG' timestamp='1384457313' post='2277033']
Yeh, I really did and John said a while back that he would strip the epoxy and fret it for me. But when it came down to it I felt that the bass was built to be a fretless, and it should stay that way. The fella who bought it was really impressed too, but because the fretboard followed the shape of the '62 Jazz closely he couldn't get the action down where he wanted, so sold it on but the buyer is over the moon with it, so I think it's found a permanent home.

And if I had the money that John's asking [i]now[/i] I think I'd get a fretted one built. His work is unrivalled in my opinion.
[/quote]

I agree. I'd probably have a 10/10 condition one though. My genuine beat up '64 Jazz did look different to my beat up Bravewood. I don't think you can fake the tobacco filmed body and the thousands of hours playing time put on the neck.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1384243130' post='2274266']
But the magic will be coming from you mate, not the bass
[/quote] I've just read the rest of this thread, after posting something at the beginning. I think a lot has gone off-track a little, but had to reply to this post. I disagree entirely with this. I'm a very average player, and whatever bass I play, I'm still very average, there's certainly no magic in my playing. I have however felt the magic in many basses. There are basses out there that I've played, and they have felt effortless to play, with dream tones, and simply ooze magic, and make everything, including my playing, sound amazing. I've only experienced this with old, good example, original, vintage Fender basses though, haven't even come close to that emotion and feeling with anything else, and its certainly not coming from me. So no, if you find an instrument that oozes this magic, then its a rare thing, but it happens, and I usually buy it, and rarely part with them (A rare exception happened recently actually, when i sold a very rare, magical original 50's Precision, to a friend of 'chilliwailer' on here, who came with him to check the bass out, this was one of those magical basses, and hopefully chilliwailer will testify to this, as he's a subscriber to this thread, and he will confirm, i'm sure, that magic does come from some instruments). You cant explain it, but if you've experienced it, then you know what I mean, if you haven't, then you haven't, but hopefully you will. You also said in another post " If a bass is decent, one can find oneself through it. The best bass is the bass you don't even notice you're playing". I agree with this, which makes your posts confusing to me, and contradicting. I suggest you play as many pre-cbs Fenders as you can find, and odds are, you will find a magical one, and then you'll know.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1384634764' post='2279060']
I've just read the rest of this thread, after posting something at the beginning. I think a lot has gone off-track a little, but had to reply to this post. I disagree entirely with this. I'm a very average player, and whatever bass I play, I'm still very average, there's certainly no magic in my playing. I have however felt the magic in many basses. There are basses out there that I've played, and they have felt effortless to play, with dream tones, and simply ooze magic, and make everything, including my playing, sound amazing. I've only experienced this with old, good example, original, vintage Fender basses though, haven't even come close to that emotion and feeling with anything else, and its certainly not coming from me. So no, if you find an instrument that oozes this magic, then its a rare thing, but it happens, and I usually buy it, and rarely part with them (A rare exception happened recently actually, when i sold a very rare, magical original 50's Precision, to a friend of 'chilliwailer' on here, who came with him to check the bass out, this was one of those magical basses, and hopefully chilliwailer will testify to this, as he's a subscriber to this thread, and he will confirm, i'm sure, that magic does come from some instruments). You cant explain it, but if you've experienced it, then you know what I mean, if you haven't, then you haven't, but hopefully you will. You also said in another post " If a bass is decent, one can find oneself through it. The best bass is the bass you don't even notice you're playing". I agree with this, which makes your posts confusing to me, and contradicting. I suggest you play as many pre-cbs Fenders as you can find, and odds are, you will find a magical one, and then you'll know.
[/quote]

It's a piece of wood and metal, and a little plastic. They are all different. On their own, they are nothing. If they fall into the hands of the right players, who the wood and metal and plastic fit perfectly with their bodies and minds, then the wood and metal and plastic can facilitate the magical feelings in the bassists who hold them. Everything good about a bass is in the player.

I have the bass that makes me feel like this, it's a 1983 USA Fender Jazz. I have played some '60s Fenders, they were all bad for me. Oddly, a beat up old Ricky 4001 really made me feel magical a few years ago, and I hate Rickys. It's spiritual man, no bass has a spirit despite what vintage sellers tell you. The spirit, and the magic, is in the player.

It's just wood and metal and plastic. It has no soul.