NJE Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 This might be a really dull question so apologies in advance but I will try and explain my thinking. I love EBS gear, I have loved all of my EBS cabs and I loved my Reidmar but I have always been really interested in the HD350 and find myself really tempted to get one. My issue is with the power/volume it can produce. EBS say 350w at 2ohms and that is exactly the same for the new HD360 from what I can tell. Now for the sort of money both amps cost new, it seems they are underpowered compared to nearly every class D amp going, some of which cost half as much. Do the HD350 and 360 kick out more volume than 350w rating would have me believe? It just seems a bit odd to charge over £900 for a 350w amp, but a lot of pro players seem to use them so they must pack a punch live? Can any current or previous owners comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 good question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Ok, I can help, having owned a 350, and also markbass and genz little heads. The 350 is easily as loud, into 4 ohms, if not louder. It's not got the balls of my gbe750 but it's a great great head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Definitely got punch. I used mine mine with a neo 210 ebs 4 ohm cab mostly, and it never struggled, where in similar gigs my lm2 ran out of steam. You cannot beat old school heavy amps for this. And it's not even that heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbandit599 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) I can't claim to have had many heads but I have an HD350 and it's plenty loud enough (when paired with either or both of my Neoline 210 or 212) for anything that I would think most people are likely to need. Really lovely amp, very transparent so you can just have your basses tone, or easy to tweak the EQ for a change. No amp GAS here! Also, I think that there is some formula of the order that in order to double volume you need to increase watts output x10. I'm preparing to be shot down on this as it's just a dusty fact from the dark recesses.... But, the gist is a 700w amp isn't twice as loud as a 350w. The luddite in me also likes that it looks like a 'proper' amp too, sorry mini amp fans but I personally can't get over the 'clock radio' aspect of them. Edited November 7, 2013 by redbandit599 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 Cheers chaps, I thought it must kick out a fair amount of power at 4 ohm as so many of them have been sold and it must be ok for Tal and Marcus Miller live! I would love to try one as there are a couple about used at the moment, I might just have to splash out and take the gamble. I would run it with a EBS Neo 410, although I have been looking into two 1x12 cabs. I have to say I agree about it looking like a 'proper' amp, I have had a few class d amps and there is something that I don't trust about them. It's completely irrational but I do miss that weight of a classic amp. I loved my Reidmar, brilliant amp but I never thought it had the build quality of other amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyf Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Just do it I had a HD350 for the best part of a decade and I've just gone back to using another after three or four years with a couple of class D amps (a TC Classic 450 and a GB Streamliner 900). Whilst I really love the Streamliner, I've just found the HD350 to be more authoritative, focused, transparent and punchy. That said, I've always loved the EBS sound so there's probably a tonal consideration involved but I'm loving the articulation that the EBS head gives me above the GB head. Power isn't everything and TBH, if I'm not loud enough with the 350w of the EBS, there's something really wrong with the onstage volumes. For me, sounds obvious, but the amp works really well with efficient and loud cabs. I've got a Berg CN212 now but had a couple of Proline 410s in the past. Because they're both very sensitive and detailed cabs, there seems to be an "efficiency" effect where the head hardly breaks sweat. I'm keeping the GB Streamliner as it does sound great for the "rock" deps I'm doing but the HD350 does the functions gig SOOOOO much better. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Where is ebs freak? I believe he stopped using a 650 in favour of a 350 with no issues and he needs a lot of head room because he is a tickler, lol. That said he is all in ears and the ebs rig is just a stage dressing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 My experience with the small heads has been that they don't lack volume, but they lack steel. That's why I'm back with the Walkabout. it's small, fairly light and only 300w-ish, but the lump of metal in it gives me all the authority I need without having to fall back on 'loud'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I have a HD350 head on loan at the moment from Bernie Goodfellow, it is new and only been used at one rehearsal and he has offered it to me at a knockdown price too but I am not taking up the offer. I am between Cheltenham and Cirencester so let me know if this sounds of interest to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
508pir Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I have two HD350s , flight cased running through an Ampeg 6x10 . Plenty loud enough and awesome tone. Im thinking about getting rid of one and getting a reidmar ( to ease my 55 year old back). Is this of any interest to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoTetak Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) My experience with EBS was exact opposite from what everybody says here. Call me liar, but they always seemed underpowered considering their rating. I owned Fafner and played HD350 and HD650 on numerous occasions. And, yes I know about cabinet impedance and how they give max power at 2ohms. Edited November 10, 2013 by DiscoTetak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Ive gigged a 650 with 4 2x10 cabs, I cant imagine a situation where the word underpowered could be used! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoTetak Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Well, you have to admit that with 8x10" you really don't need that much power to make it heard. My experience was based on running several different heads through same cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Most ebs fans will tell you that without ebs cabs and their super sharp tweeters you are Fighting a losing battle. Which other two ohm heads did you compare it to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoTetak Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I see that it's a losing battle, but I'll give you my unbiased experience. I have had three heads that share the similar power @ [b]4[/b] ohms (around 500W): TC RH450, Markbass LMII, GK Fusion 550. While, EBS heads give around 350W @ 4ohms, the difference in power should be negligible (1-1.5 dB), but it wasn't. GK was much louder than the rest of them, followed by Markbass and TC, and EBS watts always seemed quiet to me. Taking in consideration that 2ohm action is super rare occasion for majority of bass players, power at 4 and 8 ohm is what matters the most. Again, my opinion, my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 That doesnt sound like a very fair test to me, three amps at 500 watt compared to a head putting out only 350 watt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoTetak Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I know, but it wasn't a fair comparison when my 250W TC BH250 smoked 350W Ampeg SVT III PRO through 4ohm Ampeg 410HLF neither - I couldn't believe how much louder TC was. Sorry, I really don't want to look like a smartass, but my point is that watts don't tell how loud will amp get. There are numerous other factors. It's like how both TC RH450 and RH750 are actually 236W heads, but RH750 sounds louder. I have a ShuttleMax 9.2 now and I love it. Unfortunately, I don't have that 4x10" cabinet anymore, so I can't tell how exactly loud it gets compared to other heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Completely disagree, the BH250 is a really quiet amp and useless in a full band environment. I am currently running a Mark Bass LM3 and an EBS Reidmar and I would say that the Reidmar into a 4ohm cab is louder! [quote name='DiscoTetak' timestamp='1384121550' post='2273079'] I know, but it wasn't a fair comparison when my 250W TC BH250 smoked 350W Ampeg SVT III PRO through 4ohm Ampeg 410HLF neither - I couldn't believe how much louder TC was. Sorry, I really don't want to look like a smartass, but my point is that watts don't tell how loud will amp get. There are numerous other factors. It's like how both TC RH450 and RH750 are actually 236W heads, but RH750 sounds louder. I have a ShuttleMax 9.2 now and I love it. Unfortunately, I don't have that 4x10" cabinet anymore, so I can't tell how exactly loud it gets compared to other heads. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1384123921' post='2273120'] Completely disagree, the BH250 is a really quiet amp and useless in a full band environment. I am currently running a Mark Bass LM3 and an EBS Reidmar and I would say that the Reidmar into a 4ohm cab is louder! [/quote] I had a LM2 and traded it with a Reidmar. The Reidmar was so much cleaner and more powerful than the LM2 into a 4 ohm cab. It's one of the reasons I asked my opening post, I just don't know whether to bother looking at watts anymore. I remember reading that the tonehammer 350 had the same power section as a lot of the 500w amps on the market! All I know is, it's got bucket loads of volume, more so than my old LM2......bizarre! Edited November 10, 2013 by NJE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoTetak Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1384123921' post='2273120'] Completely disagree, the BH250 is a really quiet amp and useless in a full band environment. I am currently running a Mark Bass LM3 and an EBS Reidmar and I would say that the Reidmar into a 4ohm cab is louder! [/quote] Calling me a liar? Just kidding. No I didn't compare BH250 to Reidmar. I compared it to 350W Ampeg SVT3 Pro, in order to back up my theory that watts don't tell how loud the amp is. Here it is on top of Ampeg (provided as a backline) that served as an amp stand for the whole gig. I shared my experience with EBS Fafner, HD350 and HD650. I never tried Redimar, but I've read elsewhere that it is loud, and that agrees with what you said, but it also goes in line with what I said - watts don't tell how loud amp gets. All that said. I'm telling you how I experienced EBS line of amps. If you disagree with me, I'm totally fine with that. But I think it's fair that OP hears a different part of the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 No not a liar - I just don't agree with what you are saying! Getting back to the point of the thread I have also compared my LM3 against a HD350 and would say that they are very evenly matched when running at 4 ohms however run them at 8 and I would agree that for some reason the LM3 seems a lot louder which is weird!! [quote name='DiscoTetak' timestamp='1384124895' post='2273138'] Calling me a liar? Just kidding. No I didn't compare BH250 to Reidmar. I compared it to 350W Ampeg SVT3 Pro, in order to back up my theory that watts don't tell how loud the amp is. Here it is on top of Ampeg (provided as a backline) that served as an amp stand for the whole gig. I shared my experience with EBS Fafner, HD350 and HD650. I never tried Redimar, but I've read elsewhere that it is loud, and that agrees with what you said, but it also goes in line with what I said - watts don't tell how loud amp gets. All that said. I'm telling you how I experienced EBS line of amps. If you disagree with me, I'm totally fine with that. But I think it's fair that OP hears a different part of the story. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I'm not one for comparing loudness of amps, all I can say is that I have tried an EBS 350 and it didn't feel any quieter than any of the other 300watt - 500 watt amps you find sitting on top of an Ampeg 8x10 in rehearsal studios (Ashdown, Aguilar, Hartke, Ampeg etc). With a smaller 8ohm cabs I tend to think the EBS amps sound a bit anaemic. I really don't see the point of comparing 'how loud is amp X?' questions though. I generally use a Walkabout as well and have never really struggled, even at the loudest gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 My shuttle 3.0 can power my 4 ohm 2x12 cab enough for any gig so the 6.0 and 9.2 are purely luxurys really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384201969' post='2274003'] My shuttle 3.0 can power my 4 ohm 2x12 cab enough for any gig so the 6.0 and 9.2 are purely luxurys really. [/quote] My GK MB200 can power a 4 ohm cab enough for any gig really (bar a huge stage and no PA) so I concur sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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