Double Bass Amp/Cab Thread

[mtroun]

Apologies if this has been done before, but as far as I can remember there's been plenty of threads on individual amps and cabs but no big amplification thread.

I'm interested in finding out how people amplify their double bass, including pickup/mic, but particularly amps and cabs that they use and their experiences.

My own experiences:

The first amp I used with my double bass was the SWR Workingman's 12, this an amp of the old school, very heavy by today's standards and not really loud enough for all but small gigs. I did find it okay at the time.

My current amp is the Markbass CMD 121P. It's not too hard to get a decent sound with my pickup (a realist) at reasonable volume levels. I'd describe it as warm sounding - I tend to completely roll off the low mid which seems voiced well for piezo honk, then take off the bass to about 9 o clock, adjusting the treble and high mids to suit the room.

I've used the Gallien Kreuger MB112 (both types I think) at various times in practice rooms and at Jam sessions. I'd describe it as a classic for several good reasons - it's light and easy to carry and it's voiced well for double bass. It sometimes gets a bad reputation but the EQ seems well suited for getting a good DB sound and the lack of depth to the cab stops it from being boomy. For that reason it's not a very good electric bass amp.

Today I tried out a Gallien Kreuger Microbass (one of the new ones, not sure which model) with a GK cab (the old extension cab for the MB112) and I thought it sounded pretty good. It's got quite a deep sound and I had to cut some bass but it has quite a lot of presence and blends well with drums.

Anyway, give us the lowdown on amps you have experiences with. I'm particularly interested in finding out about Euphonic Audio and Phil Jones.

[Mr Bassman]

I've experienced too many amps to write about but I'd be happy to chat on the phone.

Acoustic, Ampeg, Polytone, E.A., Acoustic Image, Genz Benz, Phil Jones, Markbass, G.K., Walter Woods, Bose to name but a few

[Clarky]

I have a MIni CMD121P as well. Its a good quality, very easily transportable amp with decent EQ and gives a nice warm sound with a Full Circle but is slightly coloured. At the volumes my band plays this does not bother me, given the advantages. At lower volumes, Acoustic Image gives the most uncoloured 'true' representation of a DB in my opinion (I have the Ten2 combo) but I find it struggles and loses that clarity as the volume level rises (and its not that loud in any case). I had an EA Micro amp which also worked well and reminded me a lot of Acoustic Image.

I think there will always be compromise with amplifying a DB, its just a question of finding the best compromise that works for you and your band. For me, thats the CMD121P and for lower volume gigs I have the MarkBass 2x8 combo, the new 802 model (which has no EQ section, just filters). TBH, the latter is a luxury as the 121P covers it all and is not that much bigger/heavier

[Cat Burrito]

Great idea for a thread; I've often wondered about tips and recommendations. When I've played bluegrass / roots / country / folk stuff I have always used a Shadow pickup in the bridge. It seems to give me the tone of the bass & not colour the sound so I have stuck with that. I always just used to go through the PA with upright but I'm currently playing rockabilly / old rock 'n' roll / jump blues stuff and using my Orange Terror bass rig. It sounds good but I do wonder if an Ampeg Portaflex would be a better set up. I like the aesthetic side of things to look right too but must confess that portability and tone are my main motivations. Certainly the Orange stuff is delivering on those fronts which is why I haven't done anything to change thus far.

[Mr Bassman]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1384124238' post='2273126']
I have a MIni CMD121P as well. Its a good quality, very easily transportable amp with decent EQ and gives a nice warm sound with a Full Circle but is slightly coloured. At the volumes my band plays this does not bother me, given the advantages. At lower volumes, Acoustic Image gives the most uncoloured 'true' representation of a DB in my opinion (I have the Ten2 combo) but I find it struggles and loses that clarity as the volume level rises (and its not that loud in any case). I had an EA Micro amp which also worked well and reminded me a lot of Acoustic Image.

I think there will always be compromise with amplifying a DB, its just a question of finding the best compromise that works for you and your band. For me, thats the CMD121P and for lower volume gigs I have the MarkBass 2x8 combo, the new 802 model (which has no EQ section, just filters). TBH, the latter is a luxury as the 121P covers it all and is not that much bigger/heavier
[/quote]
I've been considering the CMD121P for sometime as a replacement for all my other amps. The one thing that puts me off is the yellow speaker, but someone on here has modified their's with a vintage speaker cloth, great idea!
If you're getting a happy sound with it, save yourself some time, pain and money. Just keep on using it.
Even if you have one of everything out there you'll never be able to pick the right one for every occasion or venue.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Mr Bassman

[Beedster]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1384124238' post='2273126']
I think there will always be compromise with amplifying a DB, its just a question of finding the best compromise that works for you and your band.
[/quote]

[quote name='Mr Bassman' timestamp='1384130485' post='2273171']
Even if you have one of everything out there you'll never be able to pick the right one for every occasion or venue.
[/quote]

That's probably all that needs to be said about amplifying DBs.

[Subfeeder]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1384155135' post='2273209']
That's probably all that needs to be said about amplifying DBs.
[/quote]
Surely not - where would the fun be in that!

I think this thread is a great idea as it's difficult to demo gear and any experience that other people have can help.

I'm a longtime GK MB150 user (over 20 years) but have been looking for something else for a few years. Mainly because the GK combo, whilst having a great sound is somewhat lacking in bass response, plus mine is really old and a bit past it really. I got a good sound with a Barefaced Compact as an add-on speaker, less good with a Barefaced Midget add-on (may be a phase issue). I've recently been trying to use a GK MB200 with the Barefaced Midget but have given up. Very difficult to EQ as it's a voiced amp (I know you can set it flat according to [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f4/gk-mb200-flat-settings-769404/"]FDeck[/url] but still seems a bit peaky) plus I've recently identified that there is some pretty heavy limiting/compression going on which is disastrous for jazz playing (including on Electric Bass in my experience). Should say I'm using a Realist pickup and PlatPro EQ.
Currently gone back to PlatPro into the FX return on the front of the GK MB150 out to the Barefaced Midget. A lot to carry around but it works OK. I would prefer to replace the GK MB150 with a power amp (as that's all the combo is doing) but it would still be a lot to lug around a 19" amp plus the preamp and speaker. If money were no object I would go for a EA Micro Amp and just go with that and the Midget, which would hopefully work and be a compact setup. Or maybe sell the whole let and get a combo - looks like many are happy with the Markbass CMD 121P
So that's my experience. IMHO and YMMV, of course.
I look forward to hearing others' experiences.

[fatback]

I've no experience with upright other than my EA Doubler and 1X12 Midget with a Full Circle.

I find the EA flawless. I don't need to mess about with a preamp, and the notch filter + phase shift sorted feedback problems. And the thing is the size of a paperback. I do carry a DHA DI in case of problems, but I've never been forced to use it. Ditto with a Kent Armstrong mag pickup fitted. Never had to use that either, but belt and braces is a good feeling.

The Midget is amazing. Light, compact, seriously loud and uncoloured. Raising it up more than a couple of feet loses some loudness (boundary reinforcement stuff), but even that's still OK when using it only as a stage monitor. This cab can easily keep up with a loud drummer.

Overall, the bass sounds like itself through this rig, (a lot to do with the Full Circle, I think). I just plug and play, maybe tweaking the mids a little.

The only improvement i can think of is adding another Midget or maybe a compact, but that's pure GAS.

Edited November 11, 2013 by fatback

[TPJ]

I've used AI Focus into a GS112 for a while but have mostly used a Walkabout 12 combo. Not really "my bass but louder" but it's acceptable.

[tinyd]

I'm using a Bass Max pickup directly into a GK MB150 combo. I'm sure that there are better pickups and amps out there, but I don't need much volume for gigs and I can always get a sound that's usable. I used to use a Fishman Plat Pro as well, but since I got the GK I find that I don't need it - the EQ on the amp is pretty good and allows me to 'dial out' the nasty mid range pickup growl mentioned by @mtroun. I think my next investment will be a new pickup but the Bass Max, while a bit unsubtle, works pretty well for me.

Edited November 11, 2013 by tinyd

[marvin spangles]

Used various amps and speakers but settled on AI Focus into Ten2 ex as my preferred set up. Back up is EA doubler into wizzy 10 or EACXL 112 if its a very loud gig. The Ten 2 copes with most everything though. Where possible I'll avoid heavy lifting.
Had a GK 112 . Great amp but a little coloured IMO

[artisan]

I run the K&K Rockabilly Plus,which is a Bassmax with clicky into a small 2 channel preamp/mixer then to a Pro Plat,into my Genz rig. (Shuttle 6.2 & NX2-212T).
Very good sounding setup & plenty of power for my rockabilly band.
The Shuttle has a very useful e.q. so i am sure i don't really need the Fishman but its nice to have its features to hand.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Subfeeder' timestamp='1384163643' post='2273288']
Surely not - where would the fun be in that!
[/quote]

I agree in sentiment.

In reality however, and putting aside the environmental vagaries of genre, room, volume etc, the variation between individual double basses means that the amplification that's perfect for one instrument is rarely perfect or good or sometimes even adequate for another. My old Rumanian sounded crap acoustically, great through my AI rig but crap through a Walkabout. My German sounded great acoustically but crap through both the AI and the Walkabout. I changed the strings on the latter from Evahs to Silver Slaps, from which point it sounded great through the AI, still sounded awful through the Walkabout, and now sounded crap acoustically.

The point of sanity - unless you're a pro or an obsessive - is that you take your bass and whatever amp you have, and you work out the best way of making the two sound good together in whatever genre you play. This may involve the hell of trying new strings (which has become a lot easier since BC started the DB forum), but hopefully won't involve the worse hell of trying new PUPs and amplifiers. Yes, some amps are probably better than others, but given that some of the best DB I've ever heard was coming out of a small guitar combo, I doubt even that's a great starting place.

My approach to DB amplification has been to use an amp that I also use for electric bass, for acoustic guitar and for mandolin. At least that way I don't get angry and want to sell it the moment I change DB strings and have to start again with gain, EQ etc Acoustic Image gear was very good from that point of view, and I'm currently looking at AER

C

[keeponehandloose]

IMO using a Fishman Pro Platinum preamp will alow you to get a more than decent sound from almost any amp , my search stopped when I realised this..

[Rabbie]

[quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1384175137' post='2273504']
IMO using a Fishman Pro Platinum preamp will alow you to get a more than decent sound from almost any amp , my search stopped when I realised this..
[/quote]
True. A preamp such as this is the first thing you should put in your gig bag, especially if you play in big places where your amp, no matter how big, is not enough. To Arisan above I'd say you don't really need one when using a GB shuttle, but if you prefer it, it's up to you.
Like many here, I have tried a lot of amps in a lot of situations and basically it's so variable that I don't think a holy graal exists. For me, Genz Benz shuttle plus one or 2 cabs allow me to get loud and still sound like a DB, whilst being light to carry.

[Subfeeder]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1384174670' post='2273493']
I agree in sentiment.
In reality however, and putting aside the environmental vagaries of genre, room, volume etc, the variation between individual double basses means that the amplification that's perfect for one instrument is rarely perfect or good or sometimes even adequate for another.
[/quote]

Very good point. That is a massive variable (the elephant in the room) and why any recommendations here should be treated with caution.

I see that Acoustic Image gear is coming up here a few times - who sells this in the UK?

[alistair Sutcliffe]

I own a pair of home-made fearful 12s and a little ibanez (detachable amp) combo. The cabs go super low so I either use them as subs for the pa and plug into the desk, or i can stack them as a regular bass rig. The Ibanez amp is good but definitely needs a pre in front. Pickup wise I use a bassmax and home-made clicky into a little 2 channel preamp.

[Beedster]

[quote name='alistair Sutcliffe' timestamp='1384184199' post='2273667']
I own a pair of home-made fearful 12s and a little ibanez (detachable amp) combo. The cabs go super low so I either use them as subs for the pa and plug into the desk, or i can stack them as a regular bass rig. The Ibanez amp is good but definitely needs a pre in front. Pickup wise I use a bassmax and home-made clicky into a little 2 channel preamp.
[/quote]

I've two wedge monitors that I stack vertically and with a good pre-amp they can do a decent job of amplifying DB, plus you get the sound off the floor. Downside is a relatively heavy and unstable rig situated next to a relatively breakable instrument. Throw in the inevitable blend of beer, punters, other musicians and a drummer.....

[Beedster]

[quote name='Subfeeder' timestamp='1384179593' post='2273577']
I see that Acoustic Image gear is coming up here a few times - who sells this in the UK?
[/quote]

Seems to pop up all over the place, and not cheaply. Problem I found - as did Clarky above - is that AI doesn't have the grunt for nice clean DB tone in a noisy room (and I had a combo and extension cab also). I found exactly the same problem with PJB rigs.

[Rabbie]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1384184960' post='2273678']


Seems to pop up all over the place, and not cheaply. Problem I found - as did Clarky above - is that AI doesn't have the grunt for nice clean DB tone in a noisy room (and I had a combo and extension cab also). I found exactly the same problem with PJB rigs.
[/quote]
They have excellent wattage but lack the bigger size speakers to move air and produce bass IMO.

[blinddrew]

Hmmm, I'm right at the other end of the scale to you guys I think. DB being very much my second instrument, and being as most of my public playing is unplugged, my set up is very much bottom end. Cheap gear4music bass, piezo pick-up I stole out of my mandolin, into an [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb05/articles/arttubemp.htm"]Art tube pre-amp[/url] (bought as a mic power supply), into a [url="http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical-instruments/guitars-basses/amps/thr/thr10/"]Yamaha THR 10[/url] (bought because my proper guitar valve amp is just too loud for home use). It's actually worked surprisingly well on the couple of occasions I've needed it but obviously it's only providing a little bit of extra gas and isn't any use for a major gig.

[marvin spangles]

[quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1384189889' post='2273747']
They have excellent wattage but lack the bigger size speakers to move air and produce bass IMO.
[/quote]
The smaller Ai contra and coda have pretty limited volume indeed but the Ten2 or Ten 2 ex with an amp has loads of volume.

[TheRev]

I had an AI Ten2 combo for about a year and found that it struggled on anything bigger than a small jazz type gig. It sounded great at low volumes but it didn't work for me when I pushed it.
My rig is now PlatPro into a LMII and a BigE MAS45 cab (country/rockabilly band) or an EA Doubler into the BigE for the jazz/soul trio. The BigE cab is fantastic IMHO, amazing clarity and spread in pubs or on festival stages.

[fatgoogle]

Revolution solo into a g-k mb500 and neo 1x12. Sounds pretty decent. Never had a problem with feedback or running out of volume.

You can hear the g-k though.