"Bass is tough because a lot of the time the bass player is in the band just to make up the numbers"

[Stan_da_man]

Can't think of one song where the bass was lost in the mix when the whole song was based around the bass line.

[AntLockyer]

This thread inspired me to write some bass driven metal

[dincz]

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1384447233' post='2276850']
I shot a band last month who didn't have a bass player[/quote]

Sounds fair to me

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Dandelion' timestamp='1384422787' post='2276427']
Pig destroyer and Insect warefare have no bass player anyway..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ide0fQ_Jbj4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkz3QBaQYy8
[/quote]

I just wasted 19 seconds of my life listening to those.

Edited March 24, 2014 by icastle
Link fixed.

[discreet]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1384445950' post='2276829']
This chap specialises in making records with bands who look like they are the kind of men who grow mushrooms up their arse, so I am not too worried what he thinks about anything.
[/quote]

ARSE FUNGUS. Great band name. Or possibly THE BUM MUSHROOMS. Or ANAL MILDEW. It's all good.

ALIMENTARY MOULD. That's another one. Or THE SPORES OF COLON. Best yet, I reckon.

[oggiesnr]

I've been to too many gigs in the past few years where the only things I could here clearly were the bass and drums

Steve

[12stringbassist]

In a lot of the kind of music he works on, you'll find a bass part actually isn't needed, as the music
is simply not worth releasing, so there's no point in brightening it up woth a bass part.

[Maverick]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1384446610' post='2276841']
Mastodon have some bass involved. I've heard them described as metal.
[/quote]

Yep, Troy Sanders is a good player IMO. Not flashy, but has a good sound and adds a lot of punch to the riffs, and forms a solid backbone when the guitars go off noodling and widdling. And most of their stuff is mixed with audible bass!

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1384458109' post='2277049']
This thread inspired me to write some bass driven metal
[/quote]

Excellent.

[size=4][quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1384444889' post='2276806'][/size]
And especially since so many of those bassists use a lot of distortion/drive that their sound blends in with those 7 & 8 string downtuned distorted/driven guitars.
[/quote]

True, but that's partly out of necessity of getting some sort of presence in the mix, and again I don't think it necessarily comes down to the tuning alone but also simply the issue of guitarists always needing to be so damn loud - both live and on record.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Maverick

[Maverick]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1384420167' post='2276385']
I've often wondered why so much time on a bass website is wasted discussing metal. Talk about "two bald men arguing about a comb".

Now, back to real music ...
[/quote]
[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1384445950' post='2276829']
This chap specialises in making records with bands who look like they are the kind of men who grow mushrooms up their arse, so I am not too worried what he thinks about anything.
[/quote]
[quote name='12stringbassist' timestamp='1384472374' post='2277248']
In a lot of the kind of music he works on, you'll find a bass part actually isn't needed, as the music
is simply not worth releasing, so there's no point in brightening it up woth a bass part.
[/quote]

Yawn. Grow up boys.

[Ian Savage]

I can 'kind of' see where he's coming from, but interesting bass players will always find their place in the mix (much as I dislike his tone and general persona, Fieldy with Korn was/is (?) a prime example of the bass not being in its stereotyped place) - I'm doing some work at the minute with a band tuned down to D standard with me playing a five-string, and yeah, a lot of the time I'm just accenting kick drums with the same note as the guitars are playing in riffs.

But when I drop that low A, bowels loosen. The trick is to not over-use it.

[Maverick]

[quote name='Ian Savage' timestamp='1384474959' post='2277274']
I can 'kind of' see where he's coming from, but interesting bass players will always find their place in the mix (much as I dislike his tone and general persona, Fieldy with Korn was/is (?) a prime example of the bass not being in its stereotyped place) - I'm doing some work at the minute with a band tuned down to D standard with me playing a five-string, and yeah, a lot of the time I'm just accenting kick drums with the same note as the guitars are playing in riffs.

But when I drop that low A, bowels loosen. The trick is to not over-use it.
[/quote]

Agreed. Although if we're going to pick someone out of that kind of scene for inventive playing and shaping the band's sound around him, I think you'd be remiss to not give a mention to Ryan Martinie of Mudvayne.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Maverick

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1384447233' post='2276850']
I shot a band last month who didn't have a bass player, just 2 guitarists, 1 with a baritone, and they were the best sounding band of the night. I still think having a bass makes a difference 99% of the time, even if it's inaudible, it still adds to the depth of the track IMO.

Liam
[/quote]

AC/DC are a good example of how the bass be vital to the overall sound even when its often hard to hear as a separate instrument.

[Prime_BASS]

Too many metal guitarists are sad pale white kids who sat in there bedroom too much.
So inherently use too much low frequency in their own sound.

This producer guy wants 'big' guitar sound and completely misses the point that that is what the bass does.

It's like how the few metal heads I've asked can't discern that the main riff in Calm like a Bomb is done on a bass.

[DiMarco]

Yawn.

The bass playing is what sets metal bands apart (as with any music).
If the bass is off or simply uninspired (played like a guitarplayer would) the band will be boring and crap.

Bass no function in metal? Get informed before spewing out more nonsense.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mesr2siegRg[/media]

Edited November 15, 2013 by DiMarco

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1384459107' post='2277076']
ARSE FUNGUS. Great band name. Or possibly THE BUM MUSHROOMS. Or ANAL MILDEW. It's all good.

ALIMENTARY MOULD. That's another one. Or THE SPORES OF COLON. Best yet, I reckon.
[/quote]
how about [size=5][b]RÄNCID DILBËRRYS[/b][/size]

Edited November 15, 2013 by steve-bbb

[Silvia Bluejay]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1384420167' post='2276385']
I've often wondered why so much time on a bass website is wasted discussing metal. Talk about "two bald men arguing about a comb".

Now, back to real music ...
[/quote]



The following will date me but - in trad metal, when a band has two guitarists and possibly also an ego-driven drummer - think Metallica, Van Halen, classic Guns N Roses and Judas Priest to a certain extent, etc. - there's little space left for the bassist. Simple as that. Metal, or at least the kind I listen to, is guitar-driven, full stop. There are exceptions, such as Black Sabbath (only one guitar) and Maiden (they do have 3 guitarists though, bless 'em!), but they are just that, exceptions.

Edited November 15, 2013 by bluejay

[Musicman20]

I have never played in anything that is purely 'metal', as I always have and always will much prefer anything that is punk/hardcore orientated when it comes to more aggressive music. One of the things that I really dislike about most the metal bands I've heard is the guitar sound.

QOTSA are by no means a metal band, at all, but a good idea of what I think a heavy guitar sound should be...eg not totally overdriven, warm, crunchy, and I guess more traditional.

The poor reception bass players get in metal is probably why I much prefer modern punk, (see Rancid, A Wilhelm Scream, NOFX).

[dlloyd]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1384416537' post='2276322']
anybody listening to dave edmunds being interviewed on radio2 simon mayo show recently ....

... if you can play guitar you can play bass...
[/quote]

I don't think that's too controversial a statement. For most pop/rock situations any half-competent guitarist should be able to hold down a passable bassline.

[discreet]

[quote name='Maverick' timestamp='1384474485' post='2277263']
Grow up boys.
[/quote]

NEVER!!

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1384507874' post='2277413']
I have never played in anything that is purely 'metal', as I always have and always will much prefer anything that is punk/hardcore orientated when it comes to more aggressive music. One of the things that I really dislike about most the metal bands I've heard is the guitar sound.

QOTSA are by no means a metal band, at all, but a good idea of what I think a heavy guitar sound should be...eg not totally overdriven, warm, crunchy, and I guess more traditional.

The poor reception bass players get in metal is probably why I much prefer modern punk, (see Rancid, A Wilhelm Scream, NOFX).
[/quote]

NOFX are mint live

[paul_5]

From a production perspective he's sort of got a point - Bass sound waves are kinda slow and sluggish when played in really fast metal - so bassists often find themselves competing for midrange space with guitarists who are drop tuned. Ultimately it comes down to who shouts loudest at the mixing stage.

[xgsjx]

Not all, but a lot of metal bands do seem to have bassists whom just follow the root note of whatever a rhythm guitar is playing (& that guitar is usually downtuned & bass filled).
If the producer is having problems with his mixing, then it might be wise for him to get some tips from the recording section on here.

[Cameronj279]

As an avid metal listener, it completely relies on that band and their sound. I mean there are bands like Rammstein where for the most part bass is inaudable. Then there are bands like Tesseract, Mudvayne, Protest the Hero, The Faceless and Dillinger Escape Plan where the bass actually plays a pretty big role and sometimes is even the actual focal point of the song at times.

[Left Foot]

Good topic.

My two cents (probably a penny short):

As technology changes the culture and understanding of music has changed with it creating sounds we never expected in previous generations. The problem here is that what was once a rebellious and aggressive art form, metal is now a exponent of 'traditional' instruments. For traditional music the instruments all have their part to play and the music maker, producer and consumer have clearly defined and understood expectations and parameters that these instruments should meet. Hence why Sneap is selling the actual instrument tones, to reinforce the tradition.

But, metal needs to stay sharp, aggressive and relevant today to fill the quota of 'rebellion'. Unfortunately it has does this through numerous 'cut your noise off to spite your own face' type exercises. The music maker, producer and even consumer are all slightly tired of it, its reached a plateau of expression and so after we're saturated with the metal image and tattoo's, long hair and ggrrrrrrr (what?) there's only one chance to re-invent rebellion, that's by mocking the tradition (which shows the lack of ambition in the plateau).

I always thought that metal, punk and grunge where always about fighting against established forms of thought, yet its now compounding them to suit its own aesthetic.

...but whatever right? rant off.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Left Foot' timestamp='1384533112' post='2277871']
Good topic.

My two cents (probably a penny short):

As technology changes the culture and understanding of music has changed with it creating sounds we never expected in previous generations. The problem here is that what was once a rebellious and aggressive art form, metal is now a exponent of 'traditional' instruments. For traditional music the instruments all have their part to play and the music maker, producer and consumer have clearly defined and understood expectations and parameters that these instruments should meet. Hence why Sneap is selling the actual instrument tones, to reinforce the tradition.

But, metal needs to stay sharp, aggressive and relevant today to fill the quota of 'rebellion'. Unfortunately it has does this through numerous 'cut your noise off to spite your own face' type exercises. The music maker, producer and even consumer are all slightly tired of it, its reached a plateau of expression and so after we're saturated with the metal image and tattoo's, long hair and ggrrrrrrr (what?) there's only one chance to re-invent rebellion, that's by mocking the tradition (which shows the lack of ambition in the plateau).

I always thought that metal, punk and grunge where always about fighting against established forms of thought, yet its now compounding them to suit its own aesthetic.

...but whatever right? rant off.
[/quote]

Great post. Left Foot has put his finger on it when he says that metal has become conformist and contrived in its' non-conformity. One uniform has replaced another.

Regarding the role of the bass in metal though, trends in heavy rock music come and go , but you can't get away from just how much [i]all[/i] these bands owe to Black Sabbath , and Geezer Butler contributes hugely to the sound of that band.. In the extremely unlikely eventuality he was ever hired to produce, them I would like to see this record producer tell Sabbath that the bass player was only there to make up the numbers . He would get a frank and forthright response involving sex and travel as well as his P45 , I expect .

Edited November 15, 2013 by Dingus