why are Rickenbacker basses such a touchy subject?

[4000]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1384619228' post='2278824']
To put some context and balance to all of that, the Hall family actually acquired Rickenbacker in 1953, way before Japenese companies started copying Rickenbackers. I remain in the apparent minority who cannot see any problem with a company protecting its own design rights.
[/quote]

+1.

[Woodinblack]

I see nothing wrong with a company protecting its own design rights. So if that company wants to go after manufacturers selling copies of their products that is fine. I have even reported a bass to them that was a copy being sold, as I didn't want someone who thought they were buying a ric buying some cheap copy that was a fake.

However, that sympathy goes away when they use their efforts chasing down private sellers selling things that are clearly not misdescribed, and things that are second hand devices made before they had their copyright on their basses.

--

and yes, I have heard from them twice!

Edited November 16, 2013 by Woodinblack

[gsgbass]

I don't have any problem with my 4003.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2VPR19p.jpg[/IMG]

[LukeFRC]

I tried 2x18's 4004 today.
It really confused me - I couldn't work out what I thought of it. It sounded nice enough I guess but felt very odd design wise.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1384619228' post='2278824']
To put some context and balance to all of that, the Hall family actually acquired Rickenbacker in 1953, way before Japenese companies started copying Rickenbackers. I remain in the apparent minority who cannot see any problem with a company protecting its own design rights.
[/quote]

No, Simon, nothing wrong with protecting rights, so I'll have to join you in that minority - but I'll keep a toe-hold in the majority camp, who wonder if it was worth the brand damage to do so in such a fashion

What is your jet-black one, anyway, Simon? Stunning example!

[gsgbass]

I don't believe there's any brand damage by Ric protecting THEIR PRODUCTS. The Ric 4003 basses are still selling at about $1,949. They are holding up the player's end who buys one, keeping the value of it up, being a Ric they purchased. Not a cheap copy that has nothing in common with one of the finer basses made. True, Rics aren't liked by every player, but neither are Fenders, Gibsons, G&L's, etc. If you don't like a Ric, buy something else. Used 4003's in mint condition, sell for about $1,700. And they do sell.

Edited November 16, 2013 by gsgbass

[Gust0o]

Of course, duck egg

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1384628174' post='2278960']
No, Simon, nothing wrong with protecting rights, so I'll have to join you in that minority - but I'll keep a toe-hold in the majority camp, who wonder if it was worth the brand damage to do so in such a fashion
[/quote]
Exactly this - I support RIC's right to protect their intellectual property, and appreciate that as a small business (certainly in comparison to their competition) it's particularly important to stay on top of potential infringements.

However it's specifically Mr Hall and his behaviour which create & exacerbate the problem. This is nothing new - those who have been on BC for a while (and who have an interest in Ricks & vintage Rick copies) may well remember that I've had personal run-ins with him, resulting from my making innocent inquiries (from the perspective of a collector & enthusiast of vintage Japanese instruments) which ended up with Hall sending abusive and borderline threatening messages to me at my personal email address.

It's hard to escape the conclusion that he is a thoroughly unpleasant, arrogant man who has nothing more productive to do with his time than trawl the internet looking for an excuse to harrass and alienate his potential customers. Much as I like Rickenbackers, I would never buy a new, or RIC - era one, and even feel quite discouraged from even GASing after an early 70s Fireglo 4001 with checked binding, full width inlays, cast bridge and wavy Grovers.

OK, maybe not that discouraged...

J.

[simon1964]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1384628174' post='2278960']

What is your jet-black one, anyway, Simon? Stunning example!
[/quote]

It's actually a standard jetglo 4003 but with black scratchplate and black name plate. Very stealth!

[Gust0o]

Is the black TRC after-market, then? It is very cool indeed. It's the type I've said I'll aim for when I eventually reach for my wallet.

[simon1964]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1384630365' post='2278987']
Is the black TRC after-market, then? It is very cool indeed. It's the type I've said I'll aim for when I eventually reach for my wallet.
[/quote]

The black TRC was supplied by RIC, but only condition that the old white one was sent back to them. They won't supply a new TRC without the old one being returned -they're worried people will end up sticking them on their fakers otherwise!

Edited November 16, 2013 by simon1964

[Gust0o]

A reasonable concern, given the ground we were beginning to cover!

The only bit I never got my head around was the stereo output. Is it a simply the case that you can run dual out from it, or is there some other wizardry?

[Highfox]

Love the basses, But the CEO seems to be on a mission..

The stereo bit is one pickup per output jack, not sure if the official cable gives you more?

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='Highfox' timestamp='1384631235' post='2279003']
The stereo bit is one pickup per output jack, not sure if the official cable gives you more?
[/quote]

Not quite, The stereo bit is 2 jacks, 1 is a standard jack like any other base, the other is a standard stereo jack which has each pickup (+vol+tone) going to one of the sides of the stereo - but it is just a normal stereo cable.

[BigRedX]

But Rickenbacker "stereo" isn't stereo at all. It's two channel mono.

IMO stereo is 2 connected channels that are arranged in such a way that sound sources are capable of being positioned anywhere between the two. Rickenbacker simply connect each pickup to it's own output with no provision to be able to pan from one out put to the other. THIS IS NOT STEREO.

[Happy Jack]

My dreams shattered ...

[Woodinblack]

No, but it is an ordinary stereo jack socket and stereo jack lead.

I am going to put a dual mono socket on my faker, so you can just plug two mono leads in or one, just easier to connect to things.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1384693044' post='2279487']
No, but it is an ordinary stereo jack socket and stereo jack lead.
[/quote]

But it's not STEREO. It's simply a 3 conductor cable, that carries two signals and a joint earth. It's how those signals are treated at the amp end that makes it stereo or not. AFAIK everyone uses it to run each pickup into a separate amp but there's no provision to place the signal in the soundfield created by those two amps and therefore it is not true stereo, just 2-channel mono.

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1384695198' post='2279520']
But it's not STEREO.
[/quote]

Obviously it isn't stereo, how could it be stereo? thats is why I said no, it is just a stereo lead, calm down!
Even if it was reasonably possible to create a stereo field with a bass, how would you do it with passive electronics?

I can get a good stereo out of my darkfire, but that is a guitar and one output per string. I did think of doing that with a handwired pickup but that was more for individual distortion, which is a nice effect.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1384682252' post='2279336']
But Rickenbacker "stereo" isn't stereo at all. It's two channel mono.

IMO stereo is 2 connected channels that are arranged in such a way that sound sources are capable of being positioned anywhere between the two. Rickenbacker simply connect each pickup to it's own output with no provision to be able to pan from one out put to the other. THIS IS NOT STEREO.
[/quote]
I always knew there was a catch.

[chrismuzz]

I got an amazing sound from a ric using my fingers with an ashdown hyperdrive pedal. If they were less expensive and not so awkward to play fingerstyle I'd have bought one despite all the mumbo jumbo

[chriswareham]

John Hall and his acolytes seem to be slacking, as I've seen several Rick copies run to the completion of their auctions on eBay recently. This has been UK auctions, so maybe someone at eBay has finally wised up to them not being in violation of trading laws for private sellers ...

[Gust0o]

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1384727359' post='2280128']
John Hall and his acolytes seem to be slacking, as I've seen several Rick copies run to the completion of their auctions on eBay recently. This has been UK auctions, so maybe someone at eBay has finally wised up to them not being in violation of trading laws for private sellers ...
[/quote]

So there might be hope for all of us, yet?

Not that I'd be selling any of mine just yet. Loads of fun to be had.

[DiMarco]

If I'd sell my Ric 4003 stating its a copy, while it isn't ... would I be haunted by mr. hall?
That would be like a copy infringement using real rics. Is that illegal?

Ow never mind.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1384619228' post='2278824']


To put some context and balance to all of that, the Hall family actually acquired Rickenbacker in 1953, way before Japenese companies started copying Rickenbackers. I remain in the apparent minority who cannot see any problem with a company protecting its own design rights.
[/quote]

I have no problem with Rick protecting their design rights.

The problem I have is that Rickenbacker aggressively pursue private sellers of old Ricky copies that were made *before* Rickenbackers legal rights to protection were granted and who are not breaking any British laws, and all the while there are loads of shops openly selling modern Ricky copies who apparently just get left to it by John Hall. It's a joke.