Multitrack recording on your own??

[Jamesemt]

I've got a few song ideas that I'd like to get recorded, but have never done it before. So where do you begin?

I am a competent guitarist, and would like to do it all myself (might get a drum program...).

I'm not hoping for something overly professional, as I don't want to spend a lot. Saying that, would like it to sound like a proper demo.

I can't sing and play, so I need multitrack software, but whats decent and cheap/free?

I can initially record an acoustic guitar with my Zoom H2, and am willing to buy a decent soundcard (don't want to spend over £100).

I've never even dabbled before, so I'm guessing I'll record the acoustic first to get an idea of structure.


Any advice? Website links?

[ped]

I used to have a Zoom MRS4 digital multitrack that I adored. I think I still have it.

I used to sit at my computer with my bass and make the drum track on the computer with bass in hand. When I was happy I put that on the multi track and then recorded everything else over it. What was great about it was that I sent the recorder to lots of friends who played other things over the drum/bass track. I didn't point them in any direction at all and when I recieved it back it was great to hear whet they made of it.

Once I recorded a basic drum track, recorded the bass, sent it to the guitar player, he sent it to my brother to record his OWN drums (live) and then it came back to me for some keyboard bits and some more guitar from my other friend. What happened was something I feel was my most 'fun' musical piece ever, totally unplanned and tasteless, showing off from each band member and just really funny. No wonder the band was called 'Crap'

I will upload the track for your amusement ASAP!!

Good luck, and I whole heartedly recommend the MRS-4, cheap and fantastic quality (you get what you put in, essentially). Do budget fro a larger capacity compactflash card though.

Cheers
ped

[cheddatom]

There are some free DAWs available. I would get one of those for your PC. Then record everything onto your Zoom H2 and transfer it over!

So, open your free DAW and make a simple MIDI drum beat, or just a click track, and play it through some headphones. Set up your acoustic/amp/singer and record with the Zoom H2. Use the USB port to transfer the files over to your PC, and import these into your project with the click. Move them into time with the click and each other. Mix! No money spent. It should be fine like that until you start getting into it and using a lot of tracks and VSTs and automation, in which case you will require a better soundcard.

[Jamesemt]

Thanks for the replies. Is the Tascam 788 a bit long in the tooth now? There's one for sale for £80 second hand...

I like the idea of being able to plug in directly as it has a guitar input.

I'm also thinking that I could potentially 'track' band rehearsals, or maybe everything but the drums or something? I realise it works on how many tracks you can use at the same time.

[cheddatom]

The 788 looks good to me for £80. I can't find out how many tracks you can record at once. Does the H2 not have a line input? You could plug your guitar into a line input through a pre-amp of some sort (like a pedal, or an active bass would be ok).

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='226528' date='Jun 25 2008, 10:46 AM']The 788 looks good to me for £80. I can't find out how many tracks you can record at once. Does the H2 not have a line input? You could plug your guitar into a line input through a pre-amp of some sort (like a pedal, or an active bass would be ok).[/quote]

Would that not be a serious faff with other tracks? How easy would it be to line the tracks up in software? The H2 doesn't have multi track capabilities like I think the H4 does (even though the H2 can record four tracks from the four microphones to balance the sound...)

[Dubs]

if you've got a half decent computer then get an Mbox Mini with ProTools LE 7.4 for about £160 from ebay. Amazing value for money for the industry standard in digital recording.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Jamesemt' post='226532' date='Jun 25 2008, 10:51 AM']Would that not be a serious faff with other tracks? How easy would it be to line the tracks up in software? The H2 doesn't have multi track capabilities like I think the H4 does (even though the H2 can record four tracks from the four microphones to balance the sound...)[/quote]

Fair enough, it could be a bit of a bitch, and if you want to multi-track at band practice then the H2 is a bit useless. Like I say, the 788 looks good value, but I can't find that much info on the net regarding how many tracks it will record at once, if you can export data to a PC etc etc.

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='benwhiteuk' post='226533' date='Jun 25 2008, 10:53 AM']if you've got a half decent computer then get an Mbox Mini with ProTools LE 7.4 for about £160 from ebay. Amazing value for money for the industry standard in digital recording.[/quote]

Only thing that puts me off is how easy will pro tools be? I'd like to spend my time perfecting my ideas, not getting frustrated with the software! My PC is well up to the job - Dual core/2GB RAM currently not doing anything as it's the fourth PC in the house and hasn't been switched on for 3 months.

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='226536' date='Jun 25 2008, 10:53 AM']Fair enough, it could be a bit of a bitch, and if you want to multi-track at band practice then the H2 is a bit useless. Like I say, the 788 looks good value, but I can't find that much info on the net regarding how many tracks it will record at once, if you can export data to a PC etc etc.[/quote]


TBH I'm still drawn between software and a seperate recorder. I've got a spare PC, and I suppose I could try a few different programs.

I like the idea of being able to switch on and start recording (but I aren't a technophobe, got a HND in Computer Programming...for all the good it did me )

[Jamesemt]

...would 4 tracks be enough? How is digital bouncing these days? I can see myself getting carried away with guitar tracks (got about 4 rhythm part ideas just for an acoustic...)

[Dubs]

[quote name='Jamesemt' post='226538' date='Jun 25 2008, 10:56 AM']Only thing that puts me off is how easy will pro tools be? I'd like to spend my time perfecting my ideas, not getting frustrated with the software! My PC is well up to the job - Dual core/2GB RAM currently not doing anything as it's the fourth PC in the house and hasn't been switched on for 3 months.[/quote]

Yeah I can see that being an issue if you’re a newbie to recording. It’s simple software though when you get used to it and it’s incredibly powerful. The Mbox packages come with a tutorial DVD so it shouldn’t take you long to get used to it. When it comes to the best, ProTools is the standard and it’s so cheap when you think it’s thrown in with an audio interface for £160.

[cheddatom]

Arrgh, it gets a bit confusing if you're not sure what you want to acheive! If you probably wont need more than 2 mics at the same time, combined with some line inputs (and you could combine the H2 if you drag things into time, which is quite easy), there are sh*t loads of cheap interfaces out there with 2 built in pre-amps. EG M-Audio Delta 1010Lt, Mbox (I think it has 2 preamps?) tascam us122 etc

[ped]

I use Ableton Live Lite 7 nowadays, it has been expanded from 6 in that you now get 8 tracks of audio and 8 midi for free, and it is pretty easy to use. However for quick and easy recording I still think the MRS4 is way better than getting annoyed with software and so on. I only find Ableton easy because I plug a bass pod into it which takes care of everything sound card wise but wouldn't know where to begin otherwise.

For recording on computers like that I prefer to leave it to an expert and go to a studio! At home for whacking down a few samples with drum beats however it is now a well rehearsed routine.

If lack of inputs/being able to record lots at once is a problem you can put a mixer into an input and expand it that way, however unless the output/input is stereo you will be limited that way.

Cheers
ped

[Ou7shined]

If your song ideas are pretty much down then a good hassle free option would be to get in touch with your local practice rooms. Most have basic recording facilities. Haggle a deal (from what I've seen these guys are really flexible with their prices) then go down and knock out some kick-ass tunes. You could take your pre-recorded drum tracks with you.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Ou7shined

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='226548' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:06 AM']Arrgh, it gets a bit confusing if you're not sure what you want to acheive! If you probably wont need more than 2 mics at the same time, combined with some line inputs (and you could combine the H2 if you drag things into time, which is quite easy), there are sh*t loads of cheap interfaces out there with 2 built in pre-amps. EG M-Audio Delta 1010Lt, Mbox (I think it has 2 preamps?) tascam us122 etc[/quote]

I agree! To make things easy, will just look at recording myself at the moment. IE only one track needed at a time. Willing to consider the H2, but would need really really easy software to drag the tracks into the correct (start) timing. Is there software that will allign based on a starting click or something? Like a timecode in video editing?

[cheddatom]

[quote name='benwhiteuk' post='226545' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:04 AM']When it comes to the best, ProTools is the standard[/quote]

I think that's not necessarily the case, and even if it was, it would be unjustified considering the competition out there.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Jamesemt' post='226552' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:09 AM']I agree! To make things easy, will just look at recording myself at the moment. IE only one track needed at a time. Willing to consider the H2, but would need really really easy software to drag the tracks into the correct (start) timing. Is there software that will allign based on a starting click or something? Like a timecode in video editing?[/quote]

And easy way to do it, would be to get the click going through your headphones, and hold them next to the H2 while it records for 10 seconds, then put the headphones back on and play. That way you have 10 seconds of click track to line up to the click/beat in the DAW. You can do it visually if you can see where the drum beats are. I do it all the time when i'm using my crap soundcard.

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='226551' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:09 AM']If your song ideas are pretty much down ...[/quote]

No, not at all. Being completely honest I picked the acoustic up for fifteen minutes yesterday, and in that time had two verses, pre chorus, chorus, melody and chord structure down. I've NEVER done anything that thorough, that quick. I'd only picked the acoustic up to bash out the regular GNR Civil War riff, and things just started happening. Some things are meant, and that was one of those things...

Woke up this morning thinking about guitar parts?? All from someone that hasn't done any writing (at all) in ten years (even then it was mainly lyrics).

Edited June 25, 2008 by Jamesemt

[Jamesemt]

I'm familiar with audacity (from messing with the H2's files). Would audacity work well with multitracks?

[Dubs]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='226555' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:11 AM']I think that's not necessarily the case, and even if it was, it would be unjustified considering the competition out there.[/quote]

not had much experience with professional studios or ProTools then? Just the lack of dedicated interfaces for any other software makes ProTools a favourite for pro’s, let alone the quality of the product.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='benwhiteuk' post='226567' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:28 AM']not had much experience with professional studios or ProTools then? Just the lack of dedicated interfaces for any other software makes ProTools a favourite for pro’s, let alone the quality of the product.[/quote]

I have plenty of experience of pro tools, and a little experience of serious top-end proffessional studios (who were incidentally using pro tools). Why you would need an interface dedicated to a specific DAW I haven't got a clue! Possibly to run the TDM plug-ins? I suppose that would make sense. The more important fact is that there are lots of DAWs out there to choose from, all with comparable features, and just because a lot of proffessional engineers express a public affection for the product, doesn't mean that is' the best product.

Having said all of that b*llocks, have you ever used pro tools HD24 with a control 24 interface? That's a pretty sweet setup! So easy to use, and the pre-amps are amazing!

[Dubs]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='226582' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:40 AM']Having said all of that b*llocks, have you ever used pro tools HD24 with a control 24 interface? That's a pretty sweet setup! So easy to use, and the pre-amps are amazing![/quote]

Yeah man, ProTools HD is what I’ve used for almost all the recording I’ve done over the last 4 years. The control 24 is getting on a bit now, but that’s what I mean about the dedicated interfaces. The new DigiDesign interfaces are incredible. This is getting a bit off topic now though.

[ianrunci]

You could get yourself a Line 6 UX1 Toneport for half your £100 ( £64 in fact is about average for one) and download a cracked version of Sonar 6 or 7 from a blog site. ([i]Although no way am I condoning the use of illegal software I hasten to add[/i])

With Sonar you would get session drummer, so you can download free drum samples and make your own kits up, and loads of plug ins and soft synths. I pesonally have a mac with pro tools and a Digidesign 002 but I have used sonar regularly and you can produce stuff as good as anything on CD with virtually no experience.

The UX1 has an instrument input, a balanced Mic input + headphone out, 2 anoalogue outs 2 line inputs and a stereo monitor in input. For the money I don't really think there is anything else that even comes close

Edited June 25, 2008 by ianrunci

[cheddatom]

[quote name='benwhiteuk' post='226607' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:09 PM']Yeah man, ProTools HD is what I’ve used for almost all the recording I’ve done over the last 4 years. The control 24 is getting on a bit now, but that’s what I mean about the dedicated interfaces. The new DigiDesign interfaces are incredible. This is getting a bit off topic now though.[/quote]

I think that if you have a good pre-amp rack or two, connected to a computer with a good interface, and a good controller for your DAW, then you can do at least as good for less money. If you have the money though, the dedicated hardware will save you time and effort etc. It is off topic yeh, sorry to OP.

The UX1 sounds good, I haven't looked at that!