Jazz Bass ID Query

[SPHDS]

I was at a gig last night (went to watch, not to play, for once.....although did end up on stage for the encore......!) and the bass player was playing a Fender Jazz with a single piece 'guard/control plate (one single sheet of white plastic, akin to a Strat, if that makes sense) rather than the usual pickguard and metal control plate combo. It also had white Strat knobs.

Anyone got any info?

[RhysP]

I think our very own Xilddx plays one of these models.

[wateroftyne]

Early 80s models, around the time of the management buy-out.

Like this...

[SPHDS]

That's the Jobbie....! (except it was red (possibly Fiesta.....) and had black pickups)

[Moos3h]

Probably no great shock but some of those were the worst basses Fender made but by god some of them were awesome!

Classic and cool guitars seem to have a few of these pass through their hands, although id have to play it first to check which camp it fell into ;-)

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Moos3h' timestamp='1385307672' post='2286650']
Probably no great shock but some of those were the worst basses Fender made but by god some of them were awesome!
[/quote]

Weight aside, they're not famed for being hitty-missy...?

The previous models (S7 & S8's) were a different story...

[Dingus]

[quote name='Moos3h' timestamp='1385307672' post='2286650']
Probably no great shock but some of those were the worst basses Fender made but by god some of them were awesome!

Classic and cool guitars seem to have a few of these pass through their hands, although id have to play it first to check which camp it fell into ;-)
[/quote]
[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1385309434' post='2286678']
Weight aside, they're not famed for being hitty-missy...?

The previous models (S7 & S8's) were a different story...
[/quote]

At the time, one of the ( many) problems that Fender were facing as a company was that their retailers were in a state of revolt because of the amount of unsaleable utterly crap products Fender were giving them to try and pass off to the general public . Fender dealers literally couldn't give these basses away in the early '80's , and Fender had to start offering special promotions and discounts to the dealers to get them to stock these and several other of their guitars at the time. They even ceased production for a while .

If these have become sought after as being "vintage" then anything is possible. It's as if in thirty years from now Susan Boyle becomes seen to be a sex symbol. Not least of all from an aesthetic point of view, they have managed to take something as inherently beautiful as a Fender Jazz Bass and make it look ungainly by virtue of the bizzare "restyling" . Why tamper with perfection, and why tamper with it like that? Fender managed to make themselves look not just desperate but lazy and stupid, too.

I remember when these basses were current , and they were the worst possible use of your money at that time.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Dingus

[gjones]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1385314936' post='2286778']
At the time, one of the ( many) problems that Fender were facing as a company was that their retailers were in a state of revolt because of the amount of unsaleable utterly crap products Fender were giving them to try and pass off to the general public . Fender dealers literally couldn't give these basses away in the early '80's , and Fender had to start offering special promotions and discounts to the dealers to get them to stock these and several other of their guitars at the time. They even ceased production for a while .

If these have become sought after as being "vintage" then anything is possible. It's as if in thirty years from now Susan Boyle becomes seen to be a sex symbol. Not least of all from an aesthetic point of view, they have managed to take something as inherently beautiful as a Fender Jazz Bass and make it look ungainly by virtue of the bizzare "restyling" . Why tamper with perfection, and why tamper with it like that? Fender managed to make themselves look not just desperate but lazy and stupid, too.

I remember when these basses were current , and they were the worst possible use of your money at that time.
[/quote]

I've always wondered why I never bought a Fender in the 80s when I started playing bass. I owned a Westone a Yamaha and a Charvel between 1984 and 1994. It never occured to me to buy a Fender. I assume it must have been because of the negative press they were getting at the time.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1385314936' post='2286778']
At the time, one of the ( many) problems that Fender were facing as a company was that their retailers were in a state of revolt because of the amount of unsaleable utterly crap products Fender were giving them to try and pass off to the general public . Fender dealers literally couldn't give these basses away in the early '80's , and Fender had to start offering special promotions and discounts to the dealers to get them to stock these and several other of their guitars at the time. They even ceased production for a while .

If these have become sought after as being "vintage" then anything is possible. It's as if in thirty years from now Susan Boyle becomes seen to be a sex symbol. Not least of all from an aesthetic point of view, they have managed to take something as inherently beautiful as a Fender Jazz Bass and make it look ungainly by virtue of the bizzare "restyling" . Why tamper with perfection, and why tamper with it like that? Fender managed to make themselves look not just desperate but lazy and stupid, too.

I remember when these basses were current , and they were the worst possible use of your money at that time.
[/quote]

They ceased production prior to these, while they downsized and revised their processes.

The handful of Dan Smith-era standards I've played reflected the much-improved QC of the time.

Aesthetics are subjective, and every year has its dogs and diamonds...

[Dingus]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1385316212' post='2286805']
They ceased production prior to these, while they downsized and revised their processes.

The handful of Dan Smith-era standards I've played reflected the much-improved QC of the time.

Aesthetics are subjective, and every year has its dogs and diamonds...
[/quote]

I remember these basses vividly, and they were poor, at best.

They ceased production again in 1983/4 , and for a while Fender didn't offer a Standard series Jazz Bass. It didn't really make a lot of difference anyway, because no one was buying them .

I remember all this well, because , luckily for me, back in those days my Dad's shop was opposite a Fender dealer and we were very friendly with the owners and staff. The general impression was that Fender were just trying to keep going any way they could to buy enough time to regroup , and the quality of the products was an afterthought. The first sign of better things from Fender was the Elite series , but the didn't turn up in the U.K in any numbers until 1984/85, partially because Fender U.K were trying to clear existing stock . I got one of my mates from school a good deal on a beautiful Elite 2 Precision Bass from the aforementioned shop , and that was the first one they got , and that must have been early 1985.

Fender basses were well out of fashion at the time anyway, and there were far fewer available in retail stores both in the U.K and USA due to lack of demand and the relative success of their competitors . How times have changed! When it comes to this era of basses , Fender might have lost that battle, but they won the war in the long-term.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Dingus

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1385318060' post='2286841']
The first sign of better things from Fender was the Elite series , but the didn't turn up in the U.K in any numbers until 1984/85, partially because Fender U.K were trying to clear existing stock . I got one of my mates from school a good deal on a beautiful Elite 2 Precision Bass from the aforementioned shop , and that was the first one they got , and that must have been early 1985.
[/quote]

I disagree. Before the Elites there were the Precision Specials in '81, which were extremely well built by a small team, with great hardware and electronics. And then there were the American Vintage reissues in '82, which are regarded as classics and fetch a premium.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1385318060' post='2286841']
Fender basses were well out of fashion at the time anyway, and there were far fewer available in retail stores both in the U.K and USA due to lack of demand and the relative success of their competitors . How times have changed! When it comes to this era of basses , Fender might have lost that battle, but they won the war in the long-term.
[/quote]

I agree.

[jezzaboy]

Didn`t they make some Mex Standards in the 90`s with the one piece plate and strat knobs? I`m sure I remember one of them for sale on Gumtree up here a couple of years ago.

[Dingus]

If people own these basses now and enjoy them for whatever reason then good luck to them , but the appreciation of their worth as instruments has certainly changed over the intervening decades.

The Precision Special might have been better built- I remember them in the shop window in Metallic Blue and Candy Apple Red but I never played one and had only just started playing at that time and can't say too much either way - but they were not well-received at the time , that is for sure . It just made Fender look desperate to be modern by putting active electronics on something .

What I[i] do [/i]remember vividly is how those Fullerton reissues were absolutely slated at the time as being overpriced and dissappointing , especially compared to the JV Squiers that were released at exactly the same time. The reviews in the music press at the time were dismissive and critical of the expensive USA basses, but effusive with praise for the cheaper Japanese guitars and basses. For anyone who doubts this , try finding old copies of Sounds magazine and International Musician and Recording World from 1982 ( but only if you really do have nothing better to do) . They were the magazines all the musos read for information about gear at that time ( goodness, this makes me feel old) and that was their verdict. I could have had a Fullerton reissue , but opted for a Squier instead based on those reviews , so it sticks in my mind.

Of course, journalists can be wrong , and opinions are subjective, but when it comes to old guitars , spectacles do always seem to be rose-tinted . Every bass is an individual case, of course, but it just really facinates me how the perception of these things changes over time.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Dingus

[Dingus]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1385318445' post='2286846']

I agree.
[/quote]

Fender beat opposition into submission , and now thoe opposition have given up and said "if you can't beat 'em , join em !" Even companies like Spector , Modulus and Dingwall have to offer what is effectively a Fender bass just to survive( or not, in the case of Modulus ).

[wateroftyne]

The Precision Specials are custom-shop quality. Top-notch.

...as are the AV reissues. I'd be interested to hear what people didn't like about them? Great woods, well-built with a keen eye for detail. Maybe they were 'disappointing' because reissues weren't what people wanted to see in the early 80s.

Of course the MIJ stuff was also great at the time, and cheaper, but that's not what this discussion is about.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1385319840' post='2286881']
Of course, journalists can be wrong , and opinions are subjective, but when it comes to old guitars , spectacles do always seem to be rose-tinted . Every bass is an individual case, of course, but it just really facinates me how the perception of these things changes over time.
[/quote]

This can be turned around...

In the cold light of day, people who own 'em know they're great basses. Problem was, people were looking for something else at the time.

[yorks5stringer]

I had one of these in the 80's, bought "new" for less than £200 from Promenade who were knocking them out cheap after a trade show. Of course I had to tinker, and bought a chrome control knob and jack socket cover, and cut down the original scratch plate to fit. Can't remember if it was a Mexican mind.....

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1385320771' post='2286911']
Can't remember if it was a Mexican mind.....
[/quote]

MIMs weren't introduced until 1990....

[wateroftyne]

...and just remembered there are some Indonesian Squiers with the one-piece guard as well.