Singer's comments about my bass tone...

[Lozz196]

This sounds like an eq thing to me - taking to the extreme, she wants James Jamerson sounds, and at present she`s getting a clean JJ Burnell sound. To my way of thinking from the description given, she has an ear for the bass being a warm old-school sound. That sound sometimes seems to groove/swing better as it`s less clean/precise giving an impression of not being so clinical. Back off on the treble on the amp or on the tone control on the Precision, play exactly the same and I`ll bet she`s happy.

[Dingus]

Next time she tries to take you to task about your bass tone , try and steer the conversation round to shoes.

Compliment her on her choice of footwear, and then enquire politely in an interested manner about what she looks for when she is shopping for some stylish footwear. Then be prepared to withdraw into your own mind for the next two hours while she outlines in detail the complex criteria and aesthetic guidelines she has for choosing a new pair of high heels and describes in detail every single pair of shoes and boots currently on display at her local Kurt Geiger retail outlet. She will soon have forgotten all about your bass, and ,indeed, probably all about you.

[jonsmith]

Firstly, having not heard the recording, it's difficult to comment on the specifics and it may well be that everything with the bassline is perfect, except for the recording quality.

Speaking more generally, in my experience not every band member has the vocabulary to articulate the exact reason why they might think something isn't quite right. That doesn't mean that everything is perfect or that they have no right to mention that something isn't quite how they think it should be. I've often found that if other band members don't get any feedback they will quite happily carry on doing things that don't sound quite right and have no idea that they are even making things sound a bit odd. It follows that I am probably guilty of the same thing (and that most of us probably are at some point). I don't think how the bass fits into the band is just the bass player's domain and would expect some comments if the other guys in the band felt they were needed. I would take these on board in the same way that I expect my bandmates to take my feedback into account.

For the situation as you have described it, I would have thought that the problem is less likely to be solved by effects (especially reverb, unless it's a slight bit of 'room' as suggested above) and more by some EQ tweaking. However if it's really a question of groove, I would spend a bit of time maybe just playing those tracks along with the drummer until the right groove is achieved (it might already be there), then getting the guitarist to join in and see what happens. If the groove disappears, then go through the same exercise again including the guitarist. I'd actually record this session too, so that everyone can listen back afterwards and hear exactly what's happening. Then discuss further if need be...

[seashell]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1385397175' post='2287730']
Next time she tries to take you to task about your bass tone , try and steer the conversation round to shoes.

Compliment her on her choice of footwear, and then enquire politely in an interested manner about what she looks for when she is shopping for some stylish footwear. Then be prepared to withdraw into your own mind for the next two hours while she outlines in detail the complex criteria and aesthetic guidelines she has for choosing a new pair of high heels and describes in detail every single pair of shoes and boots currently on display at her local Kurt Geiger retail outlet. She will soon have forgotten all about your bass, and ,indeed, probably all about you.
[/quote]

Dingus, haven't you got some shelves to put up or something ?

(pokes tongue out)

[gjones]

I like working with musicians that play for the song and can take constructive criticism. When I offer constructive criticism, I always have an idea how the song can be made better. There's no point just saying it sounds crap unless you can point out where the failures are and offer suggestions on how the arrangement can be improved.
Once you're in the rehearsal room, bring up what the singer has said and get the rest of the band to offer up ideas to improve the 'groove'. Deconstruct the songs - start with the drums, then add bass, then rhythm guitar, then vocals. Along the way make sure you're happy with what each musician is doing before you go on to the next.

Don't see criticism as an attack on your ability, see it as an opportunity to improve.

[mikebass84]

Buy a Fuzz pedal, find the nastiest, filthy tone you can handle. Take it to practice and see if she notices the "extra groove"

[Dingus]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1385400361' post='2287788']
Dingus, haven't you got some shelves to put up or something ?

(pokes tongue out)
[/quote]

I do indeed need to put some more shelves up ,Shelly, in order for Mrs Dingus to display her impressive and painfully expensive shoe collection . I don't know who this Jimmy Choo guy is , but I wish he would bugger off and make something else for a living before I go bankrupt !

Edited November 25, 2013 by Dingus

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1385411142' post='2288021']


I do indeed need to put some more shelves up ,Shelly, in order for Mrs Dingus to display her impressive and painfully expensive shoe collection . I don't know who this Jimmy Choo guy is , but I wish he would bugger off and make something else for a living before I go bankrupt !
[/quote]

I feel your pain Dingus. Mrs Cameltoe had a lovely pair of 'Christian Louboutin' shoes for her 30th birthday present. The price? Roughly what I'd expect to pay for a nice example of an MIJ/CIJ Precision.

[JTUK]

Ignore them until they start to make any sort of sense...

Vox can easiliy get ideas above their station...and because they are a focal point
they think all of a sudden, they can impart this sort of 'wisdom'

File under 'idiot'

[Dingus]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1385412957' post='2288049']
I feel your pain Dingus. Mrs Cameltoe had a lovely pair of 'Christian Louboutin' shoes for her 30th birthday present. The price? Roughly what I'd expect to pay for a nice example of an MIJ/CIJ Precision.
[/quote]

Have these women never heard of Millets?

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1385373396' post='2287392']
OK. I asked to singer to tell me more. She sent this email:

"To me the bass sounded a bit clinical and too clean. It's prominent, and in time on the recordings and in rehearsal, but on songs like We are Family and Kiss for example we really need to funk it up; I think the bassline needs to have more 'swing and sway' that's what I mean by groove. It seems that you're so focused on getting it right that I worry you're not relaxed and enjoying yourself when you play!"

So, the reverb thing may be a bit of a red herring. She says I play in time, but I need more "swing and sway",
[/quote] Right - when you're recording dump the snare drum out of the mix and if the guitar distracts you dump that too. Now see what difference it makes. Then play the full mix to the singer and invite her comments. Take her comments on board - as you would expect your comments on her performance to be regarded - but make your own decision based on the results of your experiment. If she still moans - and this is most important - try telling her to go boil her head in a bucket of p***.

[51m0n]

Post the recording, we'll tell you gently if its the bass or guitaror drums not getting the groove on right.

My bet is its the rhythm guitar, why? Because in twenty years I've only met two really superb funk/disco rhythm guitarists, and about a hundred who think they can do either but cant.

Met a lot of bassists who do a better job of grooving than guitarists....

No amount of reverb on bass will make it work better, like no amount of reverb on a crap vocal makes it less apalling to anyone who can listen, yet crap vocalists do tend to like a lot of reverb to try and hide their inadequacies. She may not be aware of the correct technical solution, but she seems fairly aware that there is a problem to address...

[solo4652]

Rehearsal tomorrow night. I'm going to take the P bass and roll off the top end a bit. I've also simplified how I play the bassline of Kiss and We are family so I can really concentrate hard on locking in with the drummer, who I find easy to play alongside. We have our first gig the following night. Maybe some of all this is pre-gig anxiety. I'll report back in a few days. Wish me luck, Folks.

Edited November 26, 2013 by solo4652

[Pinball]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1385466362' post='2288520']
Rehearsal tomorrow night. I'm going to take the P bass and roll of the top end a bit. I've also simplified how I play the bassline of Kiss and We are family so I can really concentrate hard on locking in with the drummer, who I find easy to play alongside. We have our first gig the following night. Maybe some of all this is pre-gig anxiety. I'll report back in a few days. Wish me luck, Folks.
[/quote]

Sounds like a good plan. Having read the post from the start it sounds like the type of discussion we have a lot. I'm all for trying to refine, improve things. If you get in that mind set its good fun.
Where it gets out of hand is where you start getting personal and start people start telling people how to play. Thats not the case here.

ooh and good luck at your gig.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Pinball

[AntLockyer]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1385466362' post='2288520']so I can really concentrate hard
[/quote]

Isn't that what she thought the issue was really though? Try one time really hard and another time just not trying to do anything other than relax and groove.

Edited November 26, 2013 by AntLockyer

[Graham]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1385466362' post='2288520']
Rehearsal tomorrow night. I'm going to take the P bass and roll of the top end a bit. I've also simplified how I play the bassline of Kiss and We are family so I can really concentrate hard on locking in with the drummer, who I find easy to play alongside. We have our first gig the following night. Maybe some of all this is pre-gig anxiety. I'll report back in a few days. Wish me luck, Folks.
[/quote]
If you prefer the feel of the L2000, just solo the neck pickup in passive mode and adjust the tone to taste

[Damonjames]

Prime_BASS, on 25 November 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:
hook with the drums instead.

This.

The guitar should be locking in with the rhythm section not the other way around.

This. I know we are a little biased, but in my opinion in terms of layers you start with drums, bass goes next locked in with them, and then the guitar locks in with the rythm section. Reading her comments subjectively, it sound as though there are timing issues, without hearing the recording I can't say if they are yours or the guitarists, but nothing that can't be sorted out. It was a great call the simplify the bass lines to try and tighten it up though.

An important thing to consider here is your singer has the recording of we are family in mind when she hears you play, in other words you are being compared to Bernard Edwards.... They are some big funky shoes to fill my friend, and as I am learning at the moment with his tunes, learning the notes is only half of nailing the sound! Try eq'ing, try changing to picking/fingering technique, try moving your right hand etc. I'm sure with some tweaking you can get it close enough to appease your singer, cos you will struggle to get it exactly the same.

[solo4652]

[quote name='Graham' timestamp='1385471141' post='2288578']
If you prefer the feel of the L2000, just solo the neck pickup in passive mode and adjust the tone to taste
[/quote]

Yes - I do prefer the G&L. It took a while to get used to the wide/thin neck but, now I have, just about every other neck feels cramped to me. I only ever play it in passive mode, otherwise the plaster comes off the ceiling. I can try neck-only pickup, but I don't like the tone at all - it sounds too dull and "shallow" to me. I normally play on both pickups, passive, with bass and treble cranked up to near max. I'm going to try rolling off the treble and adjusting the EQ on the amp, cutting some mids and boosting the bass. To be honest, I don't think tone-hunting is the answer, though.

[Dingus]

I used to play a G&L and they are one of the best sounding basses out there , and easy to get a great sound in just about any musical situation I can think of . Whatever the problem is, if indeed there is in fact any real problem , there is certainly nothing wrong with the sound of the O.Ps bass, because the L2000 is a tone machine[i] par excellence[/i].

[Damonjames]

I'm not disputing the tonal variety or quality of the instrument in question 😄, all I was trying to suggest is a slight tweak of the onboard eq may remove some of the "clean" sound the singer is referring to. That's the trouble with songs where an instrument is really prominent in te mix like bass in most chic tracks. People know how it sounds on the record and use that as a benchmark. I'd fancy there is NOTHING wrong with the OP's playing at all, he/she sounds far too aware of what they are trying to do to be too far off the mark. The likely culprit is the guitarist not being in time with the rythm section.
I hope the rehearsal/gig goes well!

[Guest]

Good luck with the gig and any chance we could listen to the recording ??

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1385464144' post='2288486']
My bet is its the rhythm guitar, why? Because in twenty years I've only met two really superb funk/disco rhythm guitarists, and about a hundred who think they can do either but cant.

[/quote]

I think I've only ever met one superb funk-disco guitarist. Having said that, he's not too shabby at all. Goes by the name of Nile Rodgers.











....sorry, I just had to do that. I still break into a huge grin when I remember that I have shaken his hand

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1385543742' post='2289399']
I think I've only ever met one superb funk-disco guitarist. Having said that, he's not too shabby at all. Goes by the name of Nile Rodgers.











....sorry, I just had to do that. I still break into a huge grin when I remember that I have shaken his hand
[/quote]

sounds like you need to familiarise yourself with Paul Jackson Jnr

but i agree with 51m0n .... at an amateur/semipro level i have only seen one guitarist locally who i would rate as an excellent rhythm guitarist

Edited November 27, 2013 by steve-bbb

[lowdown]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1385544237' post='2289411']
Paul Jackson Jnr
[/quote]

Along with John Robinson, they kinda made things work. [size=4] [/size]

[51m0n]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1385543742' post='2289399']
I think I've only ever met one superb funk-disco guitarist. Having said that, he's not too shabby at all. Goes by the name of Nile Rodgers.


....sorry, I just had to do that. I still break into a huge grin when I remember that I have shaken his hand
[/quote]

Interestesingly my current guitarist's long time guitar hero is Nile, and he does [i]that[/i] feel particularly well. He's never been too bothered by playing lead, and has spent years really getting into rhythm guitar. It certainly shows!