This could kick off an "interesting" debate

[Myke]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1385480027' post='2288735']
Is it our own fault in some way? For all the jokes we share on here about being the one who gets ignored, or the being the geek of the band, have we developed a collective sense of apathy? Have too many of us "learnt our place" and resigned to playing conservatively? How many of us would aspire to appear on such a list?
[/quote]

I definitely don't. I enjoy the fact that I'm not the centre of focus

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1385471842' post='2288591']
Of course there were some great songs but if you listened to the mainstream radio you wouldn't have heard much of these, No Radio One in those days so you'd have to wait till Sunday to hear most of these songs. This is the charts from my birthday week in 1965. A few great songs but an awful lot of potboilers too. I suspect if you look back at the 00's in fifty years time it'll look like a golden age too. My point is not that it was anything but a privilege to be listening to music in the sixties but that it is a privilege to listen to great music now.


[b] THE LAST TIME[/b]

[b] ROLLING STONES[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 2 1

[b] IT'S NOT UNUSUAL[/b]

[b] TOM JONES[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 3 3

[b] SILHOUETTES[/b]

[b] HERMAN'S HERMITS[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 4 2

[b] I'LL NEVER FIND ANOTHER YOU[/b]

[b] SEEKERS[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 5 7

[b] COME AND STAY WITH ME[/b]

[b] MARIANNE FAITHFULL[/b]
6 13

[b] GOODBYE MY LOVE[/b]

[b] SEARCHERS[/b]
7 9

[b] I MUST BE SEEING THINGS[/b]

[b] GENE PITNEY[/b]
8 4

[b] I'LL STOP AT NOTHING[/b]

[b] SANDIE SHAW[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 9 10

[b] YES I WILL[/b]

[b] HOLLIES[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 10 5

[b] THE GAME OF LOVE[/b]

[b] WAYNE FONTANA AND THE MINDBENDERS[/b]
11 16

[b] I APOLOGISE[/b]

[b] P J PROBY[/b]
12 8

[b] DON'T LET ME BE MISUNDERSTOOD[/b]

[b] ANIMALS[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 13 19

[b] HONEY I NEED[/b]

[b] PRETTY THINGS[/b]
14 14

[b] GOODNIGHT[/b]

[b] ROY ORBISON[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 15 12

[b] THE SPECIAL YEARS[/b]

[b] VAL DOONICAN[/b]
16 17

[b] IT HURTS SO MUCH (TO SEE YOU GO)[/b]

[b] JIM REEVES[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 17 11

[b] FUNNY HOW LOVE CAN BE[/b]

[b] IVY LEAGUE[/b]
18 27

[b] CONCRETE AND CLAY[/b]

[b] UNIT FOUR PLUS TWO[/b]
19 32

[b] DO THE CLAM[/b]

[b] ELVIS PRESLEY[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 20 18

[b] MARY ANNE[/b]

[b] SHADOWS[/b]
21 30

[b] I KNOW A PLACE[/b]

[b] PETULA CLARK[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 22 24

[b] IN THE MEANTIME[/b]

[b] GEORGIE FAME AND THE BLUE FLAMES[/b]
23 26

[b] I CAN'T EXPLAIN[/b]

[b] WHO[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 24 23

[b] A WINDMILL IN OLD AMSTERDAM[/b]

[b] RONNIE HILTON[/b]
25 15

[b] TIRED OF WAITING FOR YOU[/b]

[b] KINKS[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 26 38

[b] THE MINUTE YOU'RE GONE[/b]

[b] CLIFF RICHARD[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 27 25

[b] THE ''IN'' CROWD[/b]

[b] DOBIE GRAY[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 28 21

[b] GOLDEN LIGHTS[/b]

[b] TWINKLE[/b]
29 20

[b] KEEP SEARCHIN' (WE'LL FOLLOW THE SUN)[/b]

[b] DEL SHANNON[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 30 NEW

[b] REELIN' AND ROCKIN'[/b]

[b] DAVE CLARK FIVE[/b]
31 NEW

[b] YOU'RE BREAKIN' MY HEART[/b]

[b] KEELY SMITH[/b]
32 NEW

[b] FOR YOUR LOVE[/b]

[b] YARDBIRDS[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 33 37

[b] I DON'T WANT TO GO ON WITHOUT YOU[/b]

[b] MOODY BLUES[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 34 31

[b] CAN'T YOU HEAR MY HEARTBEAT[/b]

[b] GOLDIE AND THE GINGERBREADS[/b]
35 NEW

[b] KING OF THE ROAD[/b]

[b] ROGER MILLER[/b]
36 39

[b] I BELONG[/b]

[b] KATHY KIRBY[/b]
37 22

[b] YOU'VE LOST THAT LOVIN' FEELIN'[/b]

[b] RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS[/b]
38 RE

[b] I'M LOST WITHOUT YOU[/b]

[b] BILLY FURY[/b]
[url="http://www.officialcharts.com/archive-chart/_/1/1965-03-20/#"]Buy[/url] 39 NEW

[b] HEY, GOOD LOOKIN'[/b]

[b] BO DIDDLEY[/b]
40 NEW

[b] STRANGER IN TOWN[/b]

[b] DEL SHANNON[/b]
[/quote]
Blimey, that week was better than i thought. Some fantastic songs there. I had my ear glued to my transistor radio in the 60s. Myself and my friends at school always listened to Radio Caroline and Radio London which both started around 1964. We also had Radio Luxemburg in the evenings so there was plenty of opportunities to listen to this music even before Radio One opened in 1967 so i'm not really sure what your point is.

[Dingus]

In terms of chart music , bass used to be better, on the whole . Take a listen to the records that were in the chart this week in 1983 and compare them to now and the bass guitar was featured much more prominently on far more records back then . It was the golden age of the bass guitar, and a great time for music , even thoough we never realised it at the time due to the preponderance of Stock , Aitkin and Waterman records that came to dominate the airwaves by the end of the decade.

What no one has mentioned yet is that so much of the trends in how the bass guitar is played and the manner in which it is used in pop music have always been dictated by trends in black American music, going right back to the inception of the instrument . If you want to know why bass playing has changed and evolved in certtain ways then look at how black music has changed and what the current zeitgeist is . Hip Hop has proliferated since the late 1980's, and that music requires far more simple bass parts than the soul and funk music of the era through the Sixties , Seventies and Eighties that was so fertile for bass players . That trend towards simplicity and synthetic bass lines has permeated pop music as a whole, and you can hear it in a whole host of different genres of contemporary music. .

Edited November 26, 2013 by Dingus

[Grangur]

That's it. Go on, blame the blacks!

You're right though. So many if the old icons on the bass are black. We owe so much to the guys who created the blues and all the variations that grew out of it, including soul, funk and motown.

[tauzero]

[quote name='cytania' timestamp='1385452031' post='2288323']
Oasis's dirty little secret: Most recorded Oasis baselines were laid down by Noel Gallagher no matter who plays them live. Obviously not I'm the same league as David Gilmour doing Pink Floyd's classic baselines, more like Steve Jones rerecording Matlock's lines for the Pistols...
[/quote]

Surely you mean Steve Jones recording Sid Vicious's lines? I thought Glen Matlock's bass lines were kept in.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1385482743' post='2288773']
That's it. Go on, blame the blacks!

You're right though. So many if the old icons on the bass are black. We owe so much to the guys who created the blues and all the variations that grew out of it, including soul, funk and motown.
[/quote]

................ and no gang culture references in those days either! I wonder what they'd say about todays black artists

[xgsjx]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1385484847' post='2288815']
................ and no gang culture references in those days either! I wonder what they'd say about todays black artists
[/quote]

Probably something like "Yo, wannabe mu********** gangsta ******* Bit**, I'll shoot yo scrawny little mu*********** a*** in the face!", but in a more eligible way like "Why do you bother".

[spongebob]

I agree that it's the demise of the bass tone and prominence that has affected things.

Even bands I love with great basswork that have released records in the last 12 months - Rush, Dinosaur Jr., Motorhead - the bass recording just isn't what it used to be. I love Lemmy - but in recent years, his bass sound is just a low-end throb missing any dynamics that used to flourish.

Same with Dino - Lou Barlow's bass on record has been sidelined to a large extent.

Geddy's tone on record I like, but for me the mix is the issue - not enough space for it to breathe.

Maybe it's age, but if I want to hear a good bass tone, it'll be on an older (ie before the 00's) record.

[Phil Starr]

Thought this old f**t would be posting the old stuff but I like this, it has the correct ratio of drums to bass too. Nothing earth shattering but rather nice. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4EWfdEyoLs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4EWfdEyoLs[/url]

[discreet]

[quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1385485669' post='2288836']
Even bands I love with great basswork that have released records in the last 12 months - Rush, Dinosaur Jr., Motorhead - the bass recording just isn't what it used to be. I love Lemmy - but in recent years, his bass sound is just a low-end throb missing any dynamics that used to flourish.
[/quote]

More than likely this is due to the rise of the 'Loudness War'.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war"]http://en.wikipedia....ki/Loudness_war[/url]

In which a lot of subtlety and most dynamics are lost. It's one of the reasons why pre-digital recordings sound better.

Edited November 26, 2013 by discreet

[Dingus]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1385486635' post='2288861']
Thought this old f**t would be posting the old stuff but I like this, it has the correct ratio of drums to bass too. Nothing earth shattering but rather nice. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4EWfdEyoLs[/media]
[/quote]

I like this group , too , so great choice , but how 1980's does this track sound ? Is it a coincidence then ,in light of that aesthetic , that the bass is up front in the overall arrangement?

Edited November 26, 2013 by Dingus

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1385480681' post='2288746']
Blimey, that week was better than i thought. Some fantastic songs there. I had my ear glued to my transistor radio in the 60s. Myself and my friends at school always listened to Radio Caroline and Radio London which both started around 1964. We also had Radio Luxemburg in the evenings so there was plenty of opportunities to listen to this music even before Radio One opened in 1967 so i'm not really sure what your point is.
[/quote]

My point is simply that

a, there is some good stuff there but more cr** than good, unless you like Jim Reeves
b. yes I listened to Caroline too but a casual listener to mainstream stations wouldn't have known of say, John Mayall just as I suspect those bemoaning the current state of music don;t really know what the kids are listening to.

I'm also a little wary of becoming something I despised when I was at school

[b] “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”[/b]

Socrates

[cytania]

Tauzero, if you search out a Pistols CD on Spotify named 'sp**k' you'll hear the Pistols with Matlock playing, generally different from what went on any released record. Can't say what Vicious contributed other than great visuals.

[BigBeatNut]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1385410587' post='2288010']
It's all well and good loads of aspiring young players shredding like Victor Wooten , but who would put that kind of playing on a track ? What kind of music would it serve?

There is a whole new genre of bass playing that has developed that has no real application beyond the self-indulgent , self-serving and pointless twiddling of its' creators. Back in the day, basslines had to serve the song as well as enhance the music overall [...] for the most part there are more very flashy but very average bass players about nowadays, not neccesarilly a whole lot more good ones. than there were back in the olden days.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more.

[operative451]

Weeell, dunno about this 'slapping' malarkey, it all sounds very bad for the thumbs! But being an old goffic metalhead disco diva, one of the things that turned me onto bass after years of guitar was that a lot of the 'guitar' noises on stuff i loved was actually bass..! Rage against the machine is an example, all the 'weewoo wahwoo' noises caught my attention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMjjsjNBS_4

But its the bass that does the majority of the racketeering...

See also Sonic Youth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqUYFf7vthE

And the Jesus and Mary Chain, Sisters Of Mercy, Motorhead... Basically anything where you get the guitarist making widdly noises (or just noises in the case of the JAMC!), pretty much everything else is the bassist!

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1385487545' post='2288882']
My point is simply that

a, there is some good stuff there but more cr** than good, unless you like Jim Reeves
b. yes I listened to Caroline too but a casual listener to mainstream stations wouldn't have known of say, John Mayall just as I suspect those bemoaning the current state of music don;t really know what the kids are listening to.

I'm also a little wary of becoming something I despised when I was at school

[b] “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”[/b]

Socrates
[/quote]

I wonder what the teenage Socrates thought about his parents' generation.

I was 12 by the time that chart came out in 1964. What's interesting about it, I think, is the range of artists represented, there's very clearly a part of that chart that appealed to "teenagers", and a part that appealed more to their parents. There's 50's style balladeers, 60s pop singers, pop groups that went on to define rock, and even Bo Diddley.

That makes it dangerous to pick out things as crap or pot boilers. You'd be safe with Val Doonican probably, but Jim Reeves? I didn't like him either, but he's still respected in country music circles and did what he did well. Out of the 39 artists (Del Shannon appears twice), I think more than half could claim to have contributed something positive to the development of popular music.