Heavy Duty Ethernet Cables & Connectors

[BigRedX]

Having spent a frustrating couple of hours wiring new RJ45 connectors onto Cat5e cables for my Line6 Bass Pod/Floorboard, I'm looking for a more robust solution over the standard cable and connectors.

While single strand conductors aren't ideal for cables that aren't in a semi-permanrent (at least) installation, the biggest problem are the flimsy RJ45 plugs. Once the plastic clip that holds them into the socket breaks they no longer make reliable contact which leads to all sorts of problems - at best the floorboard stops functioning and at worst the intermittent connection eventually causes the Bass Pod to crash and reboot which results in a loss of audio while this happens.

So is there are more robust version of the RJ45 jack which has a clip that is less likely to break after a dozen or so insertions? I've looked on the usual electrical component websites and can't see anything obvious. Using a different connector is not possible since I can't change the sockets on either the Floorboard or the Pod.

Also I find rewiring new connectors onto the cable far from simple and not something I would want to contemplate on a darkened stage which is the time at which the connectors usually break.

Ideally what I want is a heavy duty cable and connectors designed for movable installations. Does such a thing exist?

[gary mac]

Obbm might be worth contacting, I'm sure he would be able to advise/supply.

[EBS_freak]

The industry standard for a hard wearing RJ45 connector is the Ethercon. I use them on my digital desks and they hold up perfectly. Thing is, you are probably looking at a modification to your line 6 gear in order for them to have an Ethercon socket installed. Looking at the back of the bass pod rack unit, it looks like you have enough space to drill out a circle to install an ethercon - you'd need to probably but flying leads on the socket though - I'm guessing that the connector is soldered directly to a PCB inside.

As for the floorboard, I'm not sure - I haven't found a pic of the back of one to comment.

I remember gigging in a band with somebody who had a flextone. Thought that the use of a RJ45 connector was a bad idea way back then. A parallel port connector or something would have been so much better... and certainly, with Line6 products now, it should be a given that they are all installed with ethercon connectors. Clearly not though :-/

[EBS_freak]

Just a thought - I presume you have tried using RJ45s with a plastic boot over the end. That should protect the little plastic clip from breaking off.

The ethercon connector negates the use of that plastic clip - it's actually held down by the connector itself. The mechanism is provided by socket which locks onto the male "jack" when it connects.

[BigRedX]

I agree that in an ideal world EtherCON is definitely the way forward. However Line6 in their wisdom don't appear to have implemented on their foot controllers (although they do on the latest versions of the Variax guitars?)

I had a look at the feasibility of replacing the standard RJ45 socket on the Shortboard with an EtherCON one. However even after removing all 10 screws on the base it still doesn't come apart. And I'm very reluctant to take either my Bass Pods apart. If I was going to get this done it would have to go to a VERY reputable tech who would guarantee the work. There's no point in eliminating one point of unreliability only to replace it with another. Do you know anyone you would trust with this kind of a job?

Finally I've used a booted cable in the past. I don't recall it lasting any longer than the non-booted version.

[woodyratm]

Are they just standard RJ45 cables?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1386075000' post='2295292']
Are they just standard RJ45 cables?
[/quote]

Yes, which is why they are failing because standard ones aren't robust enough to withstand the rigours of the gig environment. So what I need is something that fits in standard RJ45 sockets but the cable and connectors are up being handled a lot more roughly than in your average office.

Edited December 3, 2013 by BigRedX

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1386074652' post='2295278']
I agree that in an ideal world EtherCON is definitely the way forward. However Line6 in their wisdom don't appear to have implemented on their foot controllers (although they do on the latest versions of the Variax guitars?)
[/quote]

Maybe it's their long term goal to get there in the end then! I'm guessing it would take a lot of rework on the tooling front and PCB design for existing products. Next gen probably the thing on the cards...

[quote]
I had a look at the feasibility of replacing the standard RJ45 socket on the Shortboard with an EtherCON one. However even after removing all 10 screws on the base it still doesn't come apart. And I'm very reluctant to take either my Bass Pods apart. If I was going to get this done it would have to go to a VERY reputable tech who would guarantee the work. There's no point in eliminating one point of unreliability only to replace it with another. Do you know anyone you would trust with this kind of a job?
[/quote]

The only guy that I can think of who is both amp tech and electronics tech savvie to that kinda scale is Dick Straker - through GB Guitars. I certainly wouldn't be trusting your average amp tech to something as small and fragile as this kinda stuff.

[quote]
Finally I've used a booted cable in the past. I don't recall it lasting any longer than the non-booted version.
[/quote]

Yup. I think it's well and truely the case that Line6 have chosen perhaps not the best cable connection mechanism in the world here :/

[EBS_freak]

Check these -

[url="http://internetsiao.com/buffalo-rj45-ethernet-lan-cable-comes-with-unbreakable-lan-connector/"]http://internetsiao.com/buffalo-rj45-ethernet-lan-cable-comes-with-unbreakable-lan-connector/[/url]
[url="http://www.westek.com/images/whats-new/Unbreakable%20L%20Plug.pdf"]http://www.westek.com/images/whats-new/Unbreakable%20L%20Plug.pdf[/url]

I think if the actual clip is prone to breaking, you need to start looking at mechanisms that protect that from happening...

[BigRedX]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1386077020' post='2295341']
Maybe it's their long term goal to get there in the end then! I'm guessing it would take a lot of rework on the tooling front and PCB design for existing products. Next gen probably the thing on the cards...
[/quote]

If so they are taking their time. The Pod has gone through two major revisions since mine and Line6 still haven't made the FBV connection an EtherCON although both have one for the Variax. The Shortboard itself is on the Mark 2 version with no change to the connector.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1386077384' post='2295353']
Check these -

[url="http://internetsiao.com/buffalo-rj45-ethernet-lan-cable-comes-with-unbreakable-lan-connector/"]http://internetsiao....-lan-connector/[/url]
[url="http://www.westek.com/images/whats-new/Unbreakable%20L%20Plug.pdf"]http://www.westek.co...%20L%20Plug.pdf[/url]

I think if the actual clip is prone to breaking, you need to start looking at mechanisms that protect that from happening...
[/quote]

They look interesting. However I can't find anyone who's actually selling them...

[woodyratm]

What about something like this?
http://www.lexproducts.com/cs/entertainment_product?id=492&market=Entertainment&productLineId=9

Keep that plugged in to one side and connect from there?

[BigRedX]

That would be great except that it still means that I have standard RJ45 plugs in the system that will eventually fail, and have added two more connections to an already unreliable cable. Doesn't look cheap either.

I think that for the moment my best best will be a decent stranded Cat5e cable like the ones that Van-Damme do with booted RJ45 connectors, and have a look at some industrial standard RJ45s to see if they will take the kind of punished dealt out in a gigging environment.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1385816975' post='2292487']
While single strand conductors aren't ideal for cables that aren't in a semi-permanrent (at least) installation, t. . .
[/quote]

Single strand 'flexible' cables are a failure waiting to happen. Cat5e patch leads should not be made with solid core cable - that's the stuff for the wiring infrastructure. Structured wiring specs are (or used to be) based on a distance of 100m comprised of 90m fixed (solid) wiring and 2x patch leads (stranded) up to 5m each.

You're right about the unsuitable nature of RJ45s in a relatively harsh environment, but proper, stranded, patch leads might help.

[Maude]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but it seems you've researched the ethernet cable a bit.
I'm currently using a Variax bass through a Bass Pod X3 Live, both have the EtherCON connectors and I use a VanDamme cable but I don't like the cable itself, the outer covering rotates on the inner ethernet cable and it doesn't seem very strong.
My question is, does anyone else make a heavier duty cable with EtherCON connectors I could use? It doesn't have to be massively long, a 10' would be plenty. Or does anyone know of a company that would make one up?

[BigRedX]

Which Van-Damme ethernet cable do you have as they make lots of different ones?

I've just had VDC make me up two 10 metre leads with normal shrouded RJ45 connectors and Tourcat STP Flexible cable. It gets it's first proper gig outing tonight, so I'll report back on how robust it is but the cable itself on first inspection and home use set up seems to meet all my requirements with none of the issues with the covering rotating so far.

[icastle]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1386090737' post='2295611']
You're right about the unsuitable nature of RJ45s in a relatively harsh environment, but proper, stranded, patch leads might help.
[/quote]

+1

Solid stranded cables are designed to be fixed, terminated and left, they're absolutely no use in an environment where movement is concerned.

Patch cables with boots are definitely the way to go if changing the connector type isn't an option.

[Maude]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1387629378' post='2313955']
Which Van-Damme ethernet cable do you have as they make lots of different ones?

I've just had VDC make me up two 10 metre leads with normal shrouded RJ45 connectors and Tourcat STP Flexible cable. It gets it's first proper gig outing tonight, so I'll report back on how robust it is but the cable itself on first inspection and home use set up seems to meet all my requirements with none of the issues with the covering rotating so far.
[/quote]

In all honesty I'm not sure without looking, and it's in our rehearsal room. Tourcat does seems to ring a bell, it was one from an ebay seller about a year ago and there only appeared to be one seller doing about three different lengths.
The cable works fine but it is thinner than an average guitar cable and you can sort of see the inner wires twisting slightly through the outer sheath, it's probably nothing to worry about but I do worry because the inner wires are so thin. I am careful with my gear but as we all know there only so much care you can put in under gigging conditions, doing the old 'flicking the cable behind you' dance for half the evening seems to be what's twisting it.

[bertbass]

Have you thought about ethernet to wireless then back again. Might be worth looking into.

http://www.netgear.co.uk/home/products/wireless-adapters/

[BigRedX]

[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1387797843' post='2315687']
Have you thought about ethernet to wireless then back again. Might be worth looking into.

[url="http://www.netgear.co.uk/home/products/wireless-adapters/"]http://www.netgear.c...eless-adapters/[/url]
[/quote]

Unfortunately these devices are for computer-based networks and require USB sockets the installation of drivers on the computers and for the devices to actually be using the ethernet protocol. The Pod and Shortboard simply use an ethernet cable because it is convenient, has the right number of leads to make the devices talk to each other and the cables are easily available, not because the the connection between the two is actually an ethernet one in the networking sense.

Also Line6 use the cable to send power from the Pod to the shortboard to make it work. AFAIK the wireless transmission of electrical power is the "holy grail" of electrical engineering, so I would be very surprised if Netgear have cracked it with making a very big deal about it. (even for low voltages) ;-)

Edited December 27, 2013 by BigRedX