pete.young Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Took my old upright out of its gig bag today for the first time in ages to find that the back is coming away from the body on one side in the middle cut away between the bouts. Its not the first time this has happened, about 10 years ago a local Luther repaired it and it appears the glue has deteriorated. Its not worth spending a lot of money on this bass so I was thinking about getting a couple of sash clamps and repairing it my self. Has anyone else done this sort of thing got any tips? What kind of glue? The guy who fixed it last time is no longer around and the local violin shop charges top prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Some of my best customers do their own repairs...... Funny but actually very true and quite a well known pun amongst string instrument repairers. That said, the worst mistake most people make is using the wrong kind of glue. If it's a laminate then you can use whatever sticks it best - it doesn't really matter. But, (and it's a BIG but), if it's solid wood then you can only use hide glue as any other glue will cause you problems in the future. Other than that, just find, borrow or make a few spool clamps (much lighter than sash clamps) and have a go. The chances are the back's come off because it's shrunk, so it will happen again if you just glue it but if you're careful you shouldn't do any damage having a go. PM me if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Instead of using clamps you could always put a thin bit of card around the bass then wrap tape over the card to hold the bass together while the glue sets so you do not mark the finish with the clamps and everyone has some card and tape kicking about in there bodgers toolbox lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Bungees can be useful, too, as long as the instrument is protected from the hooks... [attachment=149656:Bung.jpg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1385937557' post='2293968'] Bungees can be useful, too, as long as the instrument is protected from the hooks... [/quote] Yes, I've used various stretchy, bungee type materials to clamp up seams when re-gluing them (with hide glue, of course). It's a lot easier with the proper clamps though, which you can either buy from Dictum in Germany or make your own with threaded rod, wingnuts and small circles of wood with a hole through the middle and cork or leather on one side. Anything more critical than a short length of seam I would take to a luthier, but as long as you use hide glue you can't really do much harm gluing seams yourself AFAIK. Edited December 2, 2013 by Beer of the Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 Thanks for the help, it is much appreciated. The bass is plywood, a Czech factory one from the early 1970s. The split is the full length of the cutaway, about 300mm. I think modern central heating has dried everything out unfortunately. Point taken Henry, in my defence I fixed the peg box back on with glue and interference fit dowels when it fell off and that repair is still OK some 15 years later. I also reattached the fingerboard. Thinking I might talk to ME Strings so are just up the road from me and see if they will take it on. If anyone has had dealings with them please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Simple repair like yours should not be expensive - my father (bless him) snapped the neck on my DB. Excellent repair was only £90 or so. Bass was also set up, sound post sorted and bridge for this amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 [quote name='henry norton' timestamp='1385935677' post='2293919'] .....Other than that, just find, borrow or make a few spool clamps (much lighter than sash clamps) and have a go. The chances are the back's come off because it's shrunk, so it will happen again if you just glue it but if you're careful you shouldn't do any damage having a go. PM me if you want. [/quote] Some useful info on here folks I was just wondering what "spool clamps" are though Henry? and why they would be better.... Cheers Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jecklin Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Just to jump in and add to this. Anyone interested in gluing their own opened seams and small repairs can use beef gelatin from the super market instead of hide glued. I say instead of but it is intact the same thing, just up to a food safe standard.the advantage being you can get it anywhere and buy it in small quantities appropriate for infrequent use. A kilo of hide glue will just go off if only used every now and then. All the best, Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jecklin Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I meant in fact not intact, sorry typing on my phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1386067627' post='2295148']...I was just wondering what "spool clamps" are ... [/quote][attachment=149702:Spoo_Clam.jpg] So named, I should think, as being of the same form as cotton spools (...and can be home-made using said spools..!). Edited December 3, 2013 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFry Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Just thought I'd drop this new video in here for anyone now or future seeking info on hide glue [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stpmQfLrQPo[/media] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I used the Titebond liquid hide glue to glue the fingerboard back on my bass, really easy to use straight from the bottle and was only about a tenner for 2 16oz bottles on Amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1386077178' post='2295347'] [attachment=149702:Spoo_Clam.jpg] So named, I should think, as being of the same form as cotton spools (...and can be home-made using said spools..!). [/quote] [quote name='DaveFry' timestamp='1386084969' post='2295506'] Just thought I'd drop this new video in here for anyone now or future seeking info on hide glue [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stpmQfLrQPo[/media] [/quote] [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1386111240' post='2296079'] I used the Titebond liquid hide glue to glue the fingerboard back on my bass, really easy to use straight from the bottle and was only about a tenner for 2 16oz bottles on Amazon. [/quote] All very useful info, for future reference Thanks for posting guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Just as a point - I have a really cheap chinese DB and it has split open more times than my trousers, and then the final straw was the neck snapping off when my boy knocked it over! A mate of mine repaired it for me (he is a keen amateur, not a luthier of any sort) but after we naively tried "no more nails" type stuff to no avail, he spoke to some instrument repair people and was advised to use rabbit glue instead of hide glue. I believe the process (heating etc) is the same as hide glue though. He did it without me present, but I have to say it sets like rock hard plastic - I doubt it will go again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1386023777' post='2294862'] Thanks for the help, it is much appreciated. The bass is plywood, a Czech factory one from the early 1970s. The split is the full length of the cutaway, about 300mm. I think modern central heating has dried everything out unfortunately. Point taken Henry, in my defence I fixed the peg box back on with glue and interference fit dowels when it fell off and that repair is still OK some 15 years later. I also reattached the fingerboard. Thinking I might talk to ME Strings so are just up the road from me and see if they will take it on. If anyone has had dealings with them please let me know. [/quote] Well like I said, if it's ply then you can use just about any glue - if you fixed the peg box in the past you shouldn't have any problem with re-gluing a joint. Have a go!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='henry norton' timestamp='1386229514' post='2297362'] Well like I said, if it's ply then you can use just about any glue - if you fixed the peg box in the past you shouldn't have any problem with re-gluing a joint. Have a go!!! [/quote] My cautionary word on this is: My cheapo originally split down the back seam and I used Evo wood glue as I read up on hide glue and couldn't be bothered with melting in a pan etc I thought it was being inferred that luthiers only used hide glue because it was easier to get off again if future repairs needed to be done and as this was a cheapo, I didn't think it was worth the bother.. This repair worked really well until my boy pushed it over and the neck came off the body. Since then me and my mate have tried No More Nails, Evo glue and various others, but due to the stresses on the bass once the strings are up to tension, the body would just "pop" open down various seams at random times. It has certainly taught me to stick with the recommended hide/rabbit glue. It really does dry hard, and so far, so good! However, I still sit there expecting a "twang!" at any moment as something splits again! Again, I'm no expert on the subject, just experience talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted December 7, 2013 Author Share Posted December 7, 2013 Thanks to everyone for the great response to this thread. An update: Yesterday I took the bass up to ME Strings at Monks Eleigh and handed it over to Peter, who is going to glue the split and drop the action a touch. Peter is a great guy, very friendly and helpful. He mostly does violins and his workshop is a bit bijou for two chaps and a bass, so the kitchen table served as an operating theatre :-) Should have the bass back soon so I will let you know how it worked out. The bonus is that Monks Sleigh is right in the heart of some beautiful countryside and yesterday was one of those clear calm bright Suffolk winter days that makes you glad to be alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 There'll always be dialogue when it comes to glues and gluing. Suffice to say there's usually more to repairing a musical instrument than just blobbing a bit of glue on and clamping it for a few hours. There's certainly no arguments about getting out into the country during halcyon days of winter. Wish I could have come along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted December 21, 2013 Author Share Posted December 21, 2013 Got my bass back today after a slight delay caused by an unraveled A string - fortunately Beerofthebass saved the day. The back has been reattached with the right glue, a new end pin fitted and soundpost repositioned. Peter has also lowered the action by recutting the nut and lowering and thinning the bridge. The result is that the bass plays better than it ever has and I have a big smile on my face! Peter also showed me his latest creation, a violin which is ready for lacquering. It's beautiful work. Cost of the work was extremely reasonable, all in all a great experience and I am glad I didn't try and bodge it. Now all I need is somewhere to play it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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