"Get one with fret lines"

[Bilbo]

'kin lightweights

10,000,000 violin, viola, cello and double bass players can't all be wrong. Stabilisers, sorry, fretlines are only necessary if you need to look at the neck. So you can never do a reading gig ever again? Use your ears, guys. It's not so difficult.

[Happy Jack]

[Bilbo]

Fret Line width 0.05 mm, width of finger 14mm. You still need your ears, guys!! The line just gets you in the ball park with probably little more accuracy than habit. Add in imperceptable movements in string set up, pressure induced bending, changing hand position as you dance around like a loon etc and you are left with only one universal truth: if it is out of tune, you need to move your finger.

[lobematt]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1386759369' post='2304044']
... you are left with only one universal truth: if it is out of tune, you need to move you finger.
[/quote]

Hahaha what a quote

[fatback]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1386713440' post='2303664']
Where can I find out more about this approach?
[/quote]

It's a version of the Rabbath technique for double bass.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54pMdTCmo8g[/media]

[quote]10,000,000 violin, viola, cello and double bass players can't all be wrong.[/quote]

It's a while since I saw one duckwalk though.

Edited December 11, 2013 by fatback

[Hector]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1386713440' post='2303664']
Where can I find out more about this approach?
[/quote]

It's a double bass thing, but if you're interested, you'd want to try to find out as much as you can about Francois Rabbath. The basic idea is, if your fingers 124 cover frets 567, you can also pivot your hand (with the thumb in the same place) to reach for frets 4 and 8. Using this pivoting, he then subdivides the bass' neck into fewer positions (relative to the other dominant school of double bass left hand tehnique, Simandl).

Personally, I think it's dead useful (particularly on upright), although I am primarily a Simandl (124 strictly without pivot) player, and tend to see Rabbath style technique as an exension of Simandl rather than an addition to it.

This series of videos features one of Rabbath's students teaching the basics: http://youtu.be/54pMdTCmo8g

Here's another one of Rabbath's more accomplished students absolutely tearing it up: http://youtu.be/VXt6htVi3C4

[sprocketflup]

Cant see a problem meslef, my current fretless has them, but that's because its a converted scaffolding plank, I try to play with my eyes closed anyways to practice my intonation so it doesn't make a shred of difference.

having spent a bit of time with a tuner ive realised that the lines mostly don't correspond to correct pitching anyway lol

[franzbassist]

Whatever works for the individual, of course, but personally I find an unlined board sexy as hell. It just screams out "play me".

Edited December 11, 2013 by walbassist

[Myke]

I find fretless boards naked, they need something. Them fret side marker things look the boss!

I personally have a lined fretless. Still can't play it mind!

[Skol303]

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1386768550' post='2304212']Them fret side marker things look the boss![/quote]

Aye, the fretless I have features an un-lined neck but with side dots on the 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc, fret positions.

I find this plenty useful for me to find my way around the fingerboard without being too much of a klutz. Although as mentioned, I still have a way to go before my intonation is any where near 'fluent'. But heh, that's what practice is all about, right?

[MB1]

MB1.
Saw that comment just after I'd bought this
Just dots on this, a Matsumoku Product.
Westone Factory Fretless Thunder 1A circa 83

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1386761304' post='2304081']
It's a double bass thing, but if you're interested, you'd want to try to find out as much as you can about Francois Rabbath. The basic idea is, if your fingers 124 cover frets 567, you can also pivot your hand (with the thumb in the same place) to reach for frets 4 and 8. Using this pivoting, he then subdivides the bass' neck into fewer positions (relative to the other dominant school of double bass left hand tehnique, Simandl).

Personally, I think it's dead useful (particularly on upright), although I am primarily a Simandl (124 strictly without pivot) player, and tend to see Rabbath style technique as an exension of Simandl rather than an addition to it.

This series of videos features one of Rabbath's students teaching the basics: [media]http://youtu.be/54pMdTCmo8g[/media]

Here's another one of Rabbath's more accomplished students absolutely tearing it up: [media]http://youtu.be/VXt6htVi3C4[/media]
[/quote]

Thanks, that's very useful. I'm familiar with finger-per-fret position playing, which I brought over from the guitar. I'll check this out further. BTW I am strictly BG not DB or EUB - the right-hand approach is so different, it's almost another instrument! Also I know andyonbass (of this parish), who has made a success of his DB/EUB playing - it doesn't half look like hard work.

/end of thread hijack

[ezbass]

A lot of DB players I've heard are often woefully out of tune, including some of the players that are revered in this very community. I also find the term stabilisers very patronising, I'm surprised and disappointed by it's usage, by a mod no less.

[Bilbo]

Set the dogs on 'im!!

[Hector]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1386783309' post='2304505']
A lot of DB players I've heard are often woefully out of tune, including some of the players that are revered in this very community. I also find the term stabilisers very patronising, I'm surprised and disappointed by it's usage, by a mod no less.
[/quote]

No need to get nasty mate, we're all working really hard on our tuning.

[ezbass]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1386785021' post='2304538']
No need to get nasty mate, we're all working really hard on our tuning.
[/quote]Not getting nasty in the slightest, just responding to comments made previously with some observations I have made of a variety of clips of famous DB players. I can also say the same of some famous fretless electric bass players, their intonation makes me wince. It's something we all strive to improve (lines or no lines) but I found the " [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]'kin lightweights [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]10,000,000 violin, viola, cello and double bass players can't all be wrong." belittling; you made no mention of that being nasty.[/font][/color]

[fatback]

[quote name='MB1' timestamp='1386778237' post='2304408']
MB1.
Saw that comment just after I'd bought this
Just dots on this, a Matsumoku Product.
Westone Factory Fretless Thunder 1A circa 83
[/quote]

Got one exactly like it. Cracking bass, and the side dots are in the right place too.

[fatback]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1386783309' post='2304505']
A lot of DB players I've heard are often woefully out of tune, including some of the players that are revered in this very community. I also find the term stabilisers very patronising, I'm surprised and disappointed by it's usage, by a mod no less.
[/quote]

The harshness of my judgements about any person's intonation are inversely proportional to the degree to which they are at the same time shaking their booty.

But seriously, as Hector says, we're all trying to get better; that's all that matters, and there's a good deal of humour in the positions people take up. I don't think anyone means to be unkind or disparaging.

[ezbass]

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1386788495' post='2304603']
and there's a good deal of humour in the positions people take up. I don't think anyone means to be unkind or disparaging.
[/quote]I'd like to think that too, but I do think there is a fair amount of snobbishness amongst musicians, whether it be lines or no lines, the ability to read or not, one musical genre vs one seen as not as worthy; there are other divides too and if I see what I perceive as a slight I think it's fair to speak up.

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1386759369' post='2304044']
Fret Line width 0.05 mm, width of finger 14mm. You still need your ears, guys!! The line just gets you in the ball park with probably little more accuracy than habit.
[/quote]
Although I have fret lines, once I've been paying a while and I'm 'in the zone', I stop looking - or I look less often. So I agree

[fatback]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1386794057' post='2304747']
Although I have fret lines, once I've been paying a while and I'm 'in the zone', I stop looking - or I look less often. So I agree
[/quote]

Related to this, I find with bass guitar I don't have to look as long as i'm sitting down, when all the angles are constant. Standing up, I look much more often, but then lines aren't much use compared to side dots, cos I can't see them. With upright bass, in practice I don't look at all (cos it's fixed angles) but in a gig I like side dots cos I'm moving about and often can't hear anyway.

I do think the lines are great for starting off on fretless though, because you can train your stretch visually, if you know what I mean.

As for depending on your ears, I'm sure that's correct for practicing, but I'm guessing that folks who say that about gigs play in civilised jazz bands devoid of insane drummers and keyboard players with fidgety left hands.

Edited December 12, 2013 by fatback

[Hector]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1386786503' post='2304561']
Not getting nasty in the slightest, just responding to comments made previously with some observations I have made of a variety of clips of famous DB players. I can also say the same of some famous fretless electric bass players, their intonation makes me wince. It's something we all strive to improve (lines or no lines) but I found the " [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]'kin lightweights [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]10,000,000 violin, viola, cello and double bass players can't all be wrong." belittling; you made no mention of that being nasty.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

It was a joke, putting myself in the category of DB players that are revered in this community!

[ezbass]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1386851810' post='2305306']


It was a joke, putting myself in the category of DB players that are revered in this community!
[/quote]Doh! John Slow here I'm afraid. I would never attack another BC member's playing, it would be terribly outré; let he who hath no sin cast the first stone, etc. No I was referring to professionals that are regarded as icons and whose YouTube clips are often shared. Sorry to anyone who took offence thinking I thought their playing was not good

[spacey]

On a "real fretless" the side dots are where the frets would be, confuses the hell out of most players, hence why many went back to putting them centre fret, but if you can get a real fretless and learn the dots, it becomes very easy indeed.

[spacey]

Sorry another point, I had one of those traben neo basses, it was fretted by the local retard, I am sure of it, so I pulled them, filled the gaps and black ebony varnished the board and it is now the most wonderful frettess, plays and sounds like it should have been from day one.