Distinguishing between bass quality and setup

[Annoying Twit]

I tried a whole lot of basses today. All were played unplugged so that I could concentrate on the feel.

The overall result was that of all the basses I played, my favourite for feel (subjective opinion alert) was a Yamaha RBX374. But, the bass I played which I liked least was .... a second-hand Yamaha RBX374 in another shop.

In-between these were a whole range of Squiers and Fenders from Affinity through to USA Standard. A Korean Tobias, which was a close second to the better of the two RBXs. Cort A4 and Action basses, and a Yamaha PJ RBX270.

The Yamaha was odd, in that the neck felt 'cheaply' finished, but I liked it a lot. It was also a very light bass. But, to inexpert me, it felt really nice to play, better than even the USA Standard P-Bass.

I was impressed with the Squier Affinity basses, which I have tried before, in that they seemed not much worse than the Classic Vibes, and not horrendous in comparison to the USA instruments. I tried those in a shop that sets up all their instruments however, and I have played Affinity basses elswhere which were much worse. But I tried several at that shop, and all seemed entirely usable instruments. To me at least.

I'd read on here that the only difference between the RBX270s and the RBX370s is the active electronics. But the ones that I tried today were very different, with the better of the RBX374s being quite a bit better, and the worse one being just a bit worse.

Which brings me to my point. My clear conclusion today is that it's the setup that is probably the prime factor in influencing whether or not I like to play a bass or not. So, if I'm buying in the future, how do I distinguish the quality of the bass from the quality of the setup? Or, if I was buying again, should I not worry about the details, and just go for the instrument that speaks to me, for whatever reason?

It reminds me of when I filed the nut of my Shine bass. It transformed the feel of the instrument. But if I was buying again, how would I tell the difference between the instrument that's right for me but it needs a good setup, from one that simply isn't right for me.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Annoying Twit

[spongebob]

I know a Luthier who told me that out of the box, the 'budget' basses are often better set up than the more 'boutique' (ie more expensive) ones.

A case of maybe as well detailed above - if it plays well, people are more likely to buy it off the peg. Whereas a more expensive item you maybe have to be in the market for to start with?

[gjones]

Yes it's difficult to tell sometimes. On Sunday I played a P/J Japanese Fender that had a really lovely neck but the action on it was like a bow and arrow. It was actually painful for me to play the action was so high.

[Grangur]

[quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1386091459' post='2295626']
I know a Luthier who told me that out of the box, the 'budget' basses are often better set up than the more 'boutique' (ie more expensive) ones.

A case of maybe as well detailed above - if it plays well, people are more likely to buy it off the peg. Whereas a more expensive item you maybe have to be in the market for to start with?
[/quote]Is it maybe that those buying budget basses don't know about set up. Those buying an expensive bass may insist on tweaking the set up when they try it, so why bother with an exact set up on the top models?

[iconic]

I find that the quality of the bass is dictated by the final quality of the set up...what do i mean?

Well in my experience a poorly built bass just cant be made to play with a good action....price doesnt seem to matter as much as i thought when i first started noodling around....every yamaha ive ever owned or fiddled with has been a very well built bass indeed and could take a lovely low action.

Edited December 3, 2013 by iconic

[Annoying Twit]

Thanks for the comments. When trying all the Fenders and Squiers, I did notice that the more expensive the bass, the lower the action. It could be that they were setting them up within the limitations of their quality, and the better quality instruments allowed a better action. I was surprised that I preferred the good RBX374 to a USA Fender, in terms of feel, though. Perhaps I'm just not a Fender kinda guy. Given the price of the RBX (very good price in that shop), I checked them out on youtube, but I'm not sure the sound is for me.

[geoffbyrne]

You should try the RBX375 with the humbucking pickups.

G.

[Prime_BASS]

As long as the bridge works and the truss rod works any bass can be setup "perfect". Depending in your personal tastes.

By that any bass can be made good, unless it is plain broke.

Quality to me is fit and finish really, how the tuners turn and the components used for the electrics.

Either way I'm sure I'll sound crap on almost anything I put ny hands on.

[6v6]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1386154630' post='2296388']
As long as the bridge works and the truss rod works any bass can be setup "perfect". Depending in your personal tastes.
[/quote]

This just isn't true, it depends on much more, primarily accuracy and integrity of the the neck construction, how level the fingerboard and fretwork is, neck angle and if you can shim it, etc etc.

[Annoying Twit]

When I got home, I adjusted my Shine a bit, trying to get close to the setup of the good RBX and the Korean Tobias. Can't do it just with truss rod and bridge, getting down that low gives me problems, while the RBX and Tobias felt great and could be easily played cleanly at that height. It could be my setup skills of course, but in another thread it was mentioned that I'd probably need to level and crown the frets to really get the action right.

After sleeping on yesterday's experience, I've concluded that even with my self-imposed limits on what I spend, there's the opportunity to obtain a bass that has sufficiently close to no-compromise quality. (I don't know if I can get my Cimar set up to match them, the bridge looks an utter nightmare to adjust). But that to get that, I'm going to have to be playing lots of basses to find the one that both plays right, and sounds right. And that even if I know the model, it's going to be a matter of playing individual instruments. Hence, buying at a distance may not be a good idea. (What's that going to do to my ebay addiction - probably nothing, window shopping is not a problem).

[Geek99]

TBH I always thought expensive was better until recently. The bass doc built me a P out of fairly random Jap parts and spent a lot of time on the set up using my preferred gauge of strings. The result was a world away from even a USA P that I thought was pretty good up to that point. It practically plays itself.

I think the moral is that component quality/build quality can have a nixing factor where its bad but provided its even barely reasonable (ie not a bent neck, fairly even frets) it should be possible to transform any bass into a nice and comfortable experience.

[Scrubnut]

Interesting topic. Whenever I try a bass in a shop, I never plug it in. Partly because when I was first starting I didn't want anyone to hear how crap I was, and partly because I like to focus on how it feels to me. As I got a better player I still take the view that there's no point plugging in because unless it's my own rig it won't tell me much. I soon realised that some basses are easy to play and some aren't and it has little to do with price.

I've come to the view that although shops set up basses, there's not many that really know what they are doing so I'd rather stick to someone one I know to do it.

It's interesting to think that if you give a fantastic, perfectly set up instrument to 10 players, some will like it and some will hate it. Makes me wonder if it's all just b/s!

Edited December 4, 2013 by Scrubnut

[DaytonaRik]

When I bought my Gibson Les Paul a few years ago I tried 10, maybe 12 before rejecting 6-7 of them due to feel, then repeat tested the remaining through the same amp/settings before making the final choice which wasn't my original choice on aesthetics.

It was long-winded but I ended up with a fantastic guitar,

[iconic]

[quote name='geoffbyrne' timestamp='1386152810' post='2296353']
You should try the RBX375 with the humbucking pickups.

G.
[/quote]

rbx374 does have twin humbuckers, the 375 is a 374 bur with 5 strings....appologies if thats already what you meant....just for clarification.

my first bass was a brand new rbx374...looking back it was all the bass i ever needed....active, georgeous neck lovely cast bridge, snoooth as tuners and great build...GAS is a terrible thing...i'll no doubt gi full circle and buy another!

[Musky]

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1386163836' post='2296578']
This just isn't true, it depends on much more, primarily accuracy and integrity of the the neck construction, how level the fingerboard and fretwork is, neck angle and if you can shim it, etc etc.
[/quote]
+1

I had a Fender P with a warped and slightly twisted neck. It was set up as well as it could be under the circumstances but it certainly wasn't perfect.

This has guided every purchase since - if you can't live with it as you find it, don't buy it.

[4000]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1386203453' post='2297297']


This has guided every purchase since - if you can't live with it as you find it, don't buy it.
[/quote]

I've had both experiences. I've had basses bought at a distance that have come to me horribly set up and been transformed once I got them, and ones that I've been unable to correct without major surgery. But then I've had the same with ones in shops; my first Wal and first (and 4th, thinking about it) Status were bought assuming I'd be able to set them up to my liking (low and easy!). Both later - after much struggling - turned out to have neck problems which could have been fixed but at a pretty large cost; I moved them on to people who were quite happy with them as they were. Depends how much you like the rest of the instrument I suppose.

[TheButler]

I don't know what a good setup is. Apparently my P-bass needs 'setup', yet i've played it just fine for 4 years without touching anything. All very subjective.

[Annoying Twit]

Now, this is the kind of instrument that I'm thinking of keeping a long term eye out for over time.

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-BB404-Bass-Guitar-/321268317514?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item4acd157d4a"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4acd157d4a[/url]

It's £90. But he says that the setup can go very low without any buzz. If that's the case, then I'd guess the action would be similar to those I played on Tuesday. However, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the typical active humbucker sound. This here is a passive bass. The listing says Jazz pickups, but the online documentation says humbuckers.

After reviewing my Cimar, my current favourite bass, the action could be better. Perhaps I should suppress my fears and tighten the truss rod a bit. I really, really, like the sound of the Cimar. I'm testing my looper just using pure unchanged DI sound from the bass, and it just sounds great. But, the action isn't perfect. Good, but not perfect.

But if I had a £90 bass like that Yamaha with no apology action, that could give me the best of both worlds. For not much outlay.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Annoying Twit

[4000]

A fretstone is only about £60-£80 quid, if you feel it's really going to make a difference. As I've said before, if your frets aren't right and you like low action (although there's low and there's LOW) you're probably going to struggle.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1386333452' post='2298869']
A fretstone is only about £60-£80 quid, if you feel it's really going to make a difference. As I've said before, if your frets aren't right and you like low action (although there's low and there's LOW) you're probably going to struggle.
[/quote]

I plan to take a fretstone to my Shine bass in the future. Though, I think I need to buy a straight edge to make sure that I'm getting the neck relief right before I do that. And one of those pieces of metal used to check for high frets so that I'm aware what the problems, if any, are.

Edit; I was thinking of doing something like this: [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?168216-How-to-properly-level-and-crown-frets-for-the-DIY-er"]http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?168216-How-to-properly-level-and-crown-frets-for-the-DIY-er[/url] I now think that by 'fretstone', you mean to get someone else to do it. That's an option of course. But I like the idea that [b]eventually[/b] I could become one of those people who can buy a fundamentally sound bass and make it play wonderfully.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Annoying Twit

[Oopsdabassist]

I have 2 Yamaha's, I have 2 Fenders. The Yams are my 'go to' basses every time. that is all.

[bubinga5]

i think you can set up a budget instrument very well. but. the quality of a high end instrument will shine through. a well set up Sei will, without doubt be better than a well set up Encore. im not knocking Encore but there is a reason why you pay so much coin for a Sei

[Musky]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1386247622' post='2297627']
I've had both experiences. I've had basses bought at a distance that have come to me horribly set up and been transformed once I got them, and ones that I've been unable to correct without major surgery. But then I've had the same with ones in shops; my first Wal and first (and 4th, thinking about it) Status were bought assuming I'd be able to set them up to my liking (low and easy!). Both later - after much struggling - turned out to have neck problems which could have been fixed but at a pretty large cost; I moved them on to people who were quite happy with them as they were. Depends how much you like the rest of the instrument I suppose.
[/quote]
Sure. I think most basses can be set up to your liking, but like you I've been bitten before. I've hung on to basses which I felt were OK but not exceptional and been happy with them, and also taken punts on instruments which I haven't had the opportunity to play before buying but which have also panned out for me. But I wouldn't want to buy an instrument which I knew had an action I couldn't live with on the assumption that it could be set up better.