Lowender Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 They say nobody gets great unless they start playing at a very young age. They say you can't be great until you surpass playing for 10,000 hours. Well...if it's the amount of hours put in, then all old people would be better than all younger people and that's just not so. And many artists started a little later, or bloomed later in life. I also believe that whatever you learn between the ages of 10 and 15 can be learned in one year as an adult because your comprehension is so much better. But there is no better example that dismisses all of these beliefs than Scott LaFaro. He was a genius. He re-invented the instrument. He played with a swing and a sense of voice leading that was unparalleled. His tone was ungodly and his intonation was frighteningly precise. He was miles ahead of everyone else and his work still holds up as masterful today. When he died, he'd been playing for just 6 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 While I am certainly not a great (or even particularly good) bass player, when I picked it up again aged 50, I knew within weeks I was better than I'd ever been before. Why? Confidence? So I'd say that apart from raw talent, your circumstances at the time can have a massive effect too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1386207695' post='2297322'] They say nobody gets great unless they start playing at a very young age. They say you can't be great until you surpass playing for 10,000 hours. [/quote] "They" don't say that, though, do they? The 10,000 hours thing comes from a Malcolm Gladwell book and like all of sociology's "rules" there are exceptions. I don't think its ever been stated in black and white that there are no exceptions to the rule. As a general guide its not a bad estimator though. Sure, if you're an absolute genius then you will reach the top quicker. But most of us aren't geniuses. Scott LaFaro is an interesting example to pick. He picked up the bass very, very quickly but he'd been playing other instruments for a long time. He had a bit of a head start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjunkie Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 The 10,000 hours thing is the general rule of thumb for science types that need to create rules for everything. They put forward that this is the time needed to become a master of your trade obviously there will be other factors affecting your mastery of a subject. 10,000 hours is about 8 hours a day for 5 years. Intense learning or spread out over longer time will be the key influence over time spent, quality over quantity too. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I don't believe this 10,000 hours thing. There must be loads of bankers out there who have worked 8 hours a day for 5 years but there don't seem to be many who are masters of their trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I have a mate who had never played golf, but literally within 5 minutes of picking up a golf club he could hit a ball 300 yards as straight as an arrow. Some people have great natural ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1386236955' post='2297454'] I have a mate who had never played golf, but literally within 5 minutes of picking up a golf club he could hit a ball 300 yards as straight as an arrow. Some people have great natural ability. [/quote]Word! I showed my mate a few chords on the piano. Within 6 weeks he was a demon. He could just blaze all over the piano in any key, most styles. Also the confidence thing is true. I was a monster in my twenties in terms of technique and playing. I then give up for a couple of years. When i started playing again i could still remember everything but i didn't have that balls out confidence of youth and i didn't feel i played anywhere near the level i was at. I 'm only just getting it back to the levels they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I dont think it is possible to generalise here. Some people take to certain skills easier than others. Even at a young age there are child prodigies and then there are the "average" ones. I think it is the same in older people also. That's not to say that an older person starting out is not going to make a good go of it. It is just that time is not on his/her side. Being "great" is a matter of opinion. Some who have being playing from a very young age will readily admit to still having a lot to learn. As for the 10,000 hours rule, whether or not it is true, it depends on the type of practice done. Some regard idly noodling, as "practice". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebigyin Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Personally I think someone who is naturally gifted will always be better than someone who isn't, even if you put in the hours ect....naturally gifted people it just comes so easy to them....that's my view anyway....just try to enjoy your instrument and do the best you can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='thebigyin' timestamp='1386246737' post='2297613'] just try to enjoy your instrument and do the best you can! [/quote] That's it really isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Scott LaFaro is probably not the best example. His father studied under the well known violinist and teacher Otakar Sevcik then played in some of the best bands of the day including the Paul Whiteman Orchestra and with the Dorsey Brothers. Scott played the piano and then the bass clarinet before taking up the bass. He also had perfect pitch and of course as has already been said he was a genius! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='thebigyin' timestamp='1386246737' post='2297613'] naturally gifted people it just comes so easy to them....that's my view anyway.... [/quote] Not entirely so IMO. I would regard these naturally gifted people as "diamonds in the rough." To polish up and hone these "diamonds" requires a lot of hard graft in the form of focused practice. For example, John Coltrane used to practice for maybe twelve hours a day and practically slept with his saxophone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1386248626' post='2297650'] Scott LaFaro is probably not the best example. His father studied under the well known violinist and teacher Otakar Sevcik then played in some of the best bands of the day including the Paul Whiteman Orchestra and with the Dorsey Brothers. Scott played the piano and then the bass clarinet before taking up the bass. He also had perfect pitch and of course as has already been said he was a genius! [/quote] But that's the point. Those with more talent will exceed over those who simply put the time in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fretbuzz Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I took up bass at 54, I'm 55 now. I put in as many hours as I can as I feel time is against me and wish I had started 25 years ago. I might be good when I'm collecting my bus pass. Maybe someone will help me onto the bus with my rig :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norvegicusbass Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I am another of those who played in his youth then put down the bass for decades only to rekindle an interest/love in later life. I am forty seven now and play much better than I did in my youth probably because I listen to different music now and not just punk The whole ten thousand hours thing used to dismay me a fair bit but now I just play for the enjoyment and dont worry about how I should be progressing too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) I think that most of us here, who took up the bass at a late stage in life realise that the likelihood of being the next Wooten or Jaco, are slim. In my case it probably would still have been the same even if I'd started young. However, it is better late than never and if we are enjoying ourselves and seeing some progress in our playing, that... for me at least, helps to counter act the regret of not having started earlier. Edited December 5, 2013 by Coilte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1386254433' post='2297770'] But that's the point. Those with more talent will exceed over those who simply put the time in. [/quote] I agree that you have to have the talent but i can only compare it with footballers that i have worked with. I don't know any who have fulfilled the potential (however talented) without putting in the hours on the training pitch. Wasn't it the great golfer Gary Player who once said 'the more i practice, the luckier i get'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seashell Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1386264059' post='2297963'] I think that most of us here, who took up the bass at a late stage in life realise that the likelihood of being the next Wooten or Jaco, are slim. In my case it probably would still have been the same even if I'd started young. However, it is better late than never and if we are enjoying ourselves and seeing some progress in our playing, that... for me at least, helps to counter act the regret of not having started earlier. [/quote] +1 to all that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1386236955' post='2297454'] I have a mate who had never played golf, but literally within 5 minutes of picking up a golf club he could hit a ball 300 yards as straight as an arrow. [/quote] What was his putting like after 5 minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1386265922' post='2298023'] What was his putting like after 5 minutes? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madshadows Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I've started playing Bass again at age 54 and I am enjoying so much and I think I'm better now than I was in teens because i have more patience to learn and figure out stuff !! Loving it John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Well I [i]have [/i]done my 10,000 hours - so I should be a lot better than I am... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 There are undoubtedly people with natural aptitudes in every area, and the lucky ones get to find out what that is, and have the opportunity to develop it. How far they then get is, I think, a matter of the degree of aptitude and also their own drive/desire, and of course the application of lots of hard work. Scott LeFaro came from a musical family, had studied music since he was five, and spent a quarter of his life playing the bass - I stand to be corrected, but I doubt he ever had to hold a mundane job down or do anything that wasn't involved with music in his whole life. In that respect, he was very lucky. He could also have been a blinding talent as a plasterer, but we'll never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='thebigyin' timestamp='1386246737' post='2297613'] Personally I think someone who is naturally gifted will always be better than someone who isn't, even if you put in the hours ect....naturally gifted people it just comes so easy to them....that's my view anyway....just try to enjoy your instrument and do the best you can! [/quote] I've seen it work both ways - impossible to generalise. I've met people who were incredibly naturally gifted who simply couldn't be arsed to play much and threw their talent away. Conversely I've known 'average' people who've worked and worked at their craft and ended up both more competent and, maybe more importantly, happier than the naturals. NB - I don't think Scott Le Faro is an example of someone who just happened to be naturally brilliant. With his background it would have been a bigger surprise if he wasn't musically gifted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1386283390' post='2298402'] (I've met) people who were incredibly naturally gifted who simply couldn't be arsed to play much and threw their talent away. [/quote] George Best? I'll get me coat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.