Barefaced Foam Party

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1386860803' post='2305549']
You know when you get a cut inside your mouth and you just can't stop tonguing it? Well it's like that
[/quote]
I use clove oil followed by ibuprofen. Clove oil tastes nasty, but managing an irritation so it doesn't get worse is important.

[Toasted]

I think I'm falling in love with you.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1386862796' post='2305595']
I use clove oil followed by ibuprofen. Clove oil tastes nasty, but managing an irritation so it doesn't get worse is important.
[/quote]

You know when you describe yourself as "Basschat's Alan Partridge"?

Well ...

[TG Flatline]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1386861080' post='2305555']
I'm afraid it's not that simple. If it were, similar products with the same price would by definition offer the same value. As Oscar Wilde said, A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Not the same at all.
[/quote]

But that value might not be made up of the same elements (component quality, brand prestige etc), so that definition is meaningless and the quote irrelevant. Shall we agree to disagree?

[RandomBass]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1386860803' post='2305549']


You know when you get a cut inside your mouth and you just can't stop tonguing it? Well it's like that
[/quote]
I had to re-read that very carefully ;-)

[Ghost_Bass]

Ok, i've been silent trough lots of this Barefaced debates but i think it's time to leave you with MY opinion.

FEET:

Here's a list of all the gear i had with fallen feet (the ones i can remember from memory):

- Trace Elliot GP12 combo (not cheap!)
- Wharfedale Pro 2x15 PA cab (not very expensive)
- Wharfedale Pro 1x15 PA cab ( " )
- Wharfedale Pro floor monitor ( " )
- Laney Floor monitor ( " )
- Promethean P110C (cheap)
- RCF ART 312 PA top (very expensive)
- DB Technologies SUB12 (not very expensive)
- DB Technologies SUB15 ( " )

I had a Barefaced Midget on wich on of the foot worked out loose from time to time, i ended replacing the screw for a thicker one. My current Super12T is still free from foot problems.

HANDLE:

I have handles splitting on my Trace Elliot Boxer 15 and on the Laney floor monitor. I have friends who had to replace handles on their Marshall guitar amps and none of them complaint about it. Both the Midget i had and my S12T hadn't any problem with theirs but i'm aware that thw S12T's handle will start to plit eventually. When that happens i'll replace them with the new ones and won't complaint either.

FOAM:

Have you ever had a HK PA? Have you seen what happens to the foam they use to cover the front baffle??? In my rehearsall room we had two Turbosoung PA cabs also with a foam covered baffle and after a few rehearsalls we had to send the owner in to teka them out of there, the room was allways dirty with that sh*t. Alex released about 20 cabs with this type of padding before changing to something better, not a real issue with BF QC, is it?

Now, here's my most honest opinion regarding BF cabs:

Pros:

- Light weigt and compact
- Loud but still clear
- Full range sound and good perception of all the notes (people mistake this for sound quality but you can't quantify sound quality, it's subjective to every single one of us. I like a full range sound, great mid presence but others like some scoop on the mids and more sub-bass extention... either you like it or not!)
- Very rigid construction (no signs of weakness on any part of the wooden box)
- Pre and After sales service (Alex never left a single e-mail from me unanswered, it may time a few days but he allways replied. people must understand that a single person can't build cabs and attend to facebook/e-mail/basschat at the same time)

Cons:

- looks (i don't like the looks of my cabs, don't like the painted finish, makes it look too DIY and the metal grill doesn't make it any better. This doesn't put me off from buying one because i give more importance to the sound and portability. When i get tired of looking at my cab i'll pick up the sander and strip the paint, cover the cab in tolex and add some sexy silver cloth and white binding.
- handles (i would prefer something made of metal and recessed, Alex says it's difficult to do it but it's not impossible)
- lack of tilting device for the smaller cabs
- metal corners (they could be a bit prettier and more firm)


I think, in all fairness Barefaced cabs aren't overpriced when compared with other manufacturers, or have worse QC, the drivers are expensive and so are the x-over componontes. Every brand has its issues over one thing or another.


I don't want to start a fight here, this is just an example that i'm going to use inspired by the nickname of one of the BC'ers that are writting against BF (EBS_Freak).
I had two EBS cabs, a Neoline 110 and a Neoline 112:


(edit: i forgot to add that this three cabs are all on the same price bracket)

The handle on them wasn't the best option, even though it was recessed and offered the cab tilt option it would rattle at high volumes.

The corners were made of cheap plastic (one of them came broken inside the box)

The grill is made of some kind of mesh that usually is used on construction sites.

The cab was covered with carpet, the thing all cats love.

The feet... er... they don't have feet! So here's a point for EBS!

Sorry EBS_Freak, this is just an example, please understand, i could have used Stevie or Toasted but i don't know what gear they use. Nothing against you personally, ok?


Summing it up, all gear is great for somebody and a big waste of money for others, everyone has his own personal taste and everyone has the right to his opinion, express it as you like but start thinking before writting, please. This issue is strating to grow a beard...


Cheers

Edited December 12, 2013 by Ghost_Bass

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1386848302' post='2305245']
What don't you get?
[/quote]


Are you Latvian? Cool.

[stevie]

[quote name='TG Flatline' timestamp='1386863529' post='2305616']
But that value might not be made up of the same elements (component quality, brand prestige etc), so that definition is meaningless and the quote irrelevant. Shall we agree to disagree?
[/quote]

Yes, let's agree to disagree. I would be happier if I knew what we were disagreeing about, but still.....

[stevie]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1386866325' post='2305688']
The handle on them wasn't the best option, even though it was recessed and offered the cab tilt option it would rattle at high volumes.
The corners were made of cheap plastic (one of them came broken inside the box)
The grill is made of some kind of mesh that usually is used on construction sites.
The cab was covered with carpet, the thing all cats love.
The feet... er... they don't have feet! So here's a point for EBS!
[/quote]

So what is it with you and feet?

I had an EBS cab once, a 2 x 12". It was very well made out of best quality Finnish birch ply - the really good stuff. The only thing that let it down was that it needed a front-to-back brace running between the drivers and the back panel. Otherwise I couldn't fault it quality-wise. And I'm fussy.
The plastic corners are fairly standard issue. They allow for stacking and function as feet. They work well but wouldn't be my first choice either. Neither would the carpet, but neither of those is an issue for most people and couldn't be described as poor quality - just a matter of choice.

I found the grille really neat. It's actually fencing, which they've chrome plated. It's a really clever, cheap solution that looks good IMO.
Pity about the rattling handle.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1386869266' post='2305748']
So what is it with you and feet?
[/quote]

With ME? Absolutely nothing, i never worried about that, things like this happen when moving gear in and out of venues. Never complainted to any maker. Now leave me out of this discussion and let me get back to reading my Calzedonia catalog...

[Ghost_Bass]

BTW, the rattle never bothered me because i used the handles to tilt those cabs. When the midget arrived i sold both cabs because, AB'ing both i found a brand new midrange world that was missing on the Neos. They were light, loud but i personally found the BF to be clearer. It's just my personal taste.



EDIT: In all fairness, i also didn't liked the look of the BF'ed grill so i ended up doing this to it:


my Neos grill was black

Edited December 12, 2013 by Ghost_Bass

[stevie]

Yes, that looks better. Couldn't you have used Velcro rather than the screws?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1386866325' post='2305688']
Ok, i've been silent trough lots of this Barefaced debates but i think it's time to leave you with MY opinion.

FEET:

Here's a list of all the gear i had with fallen feet (the ones i can remember from memory):

- Trace Elliot GP12 combo (not cheap!)
- Wharfedale Pro 2x15 PA cab (not very expensive)
- Wharfedale Pro 1x15 PA cab ( " )
- Wharfedale Pro floor monitor ( " )
- Laney Floor monitor ( " )
- Promethean P110C (cheap)
- RCF ART 312 PA top (very expensive)
- DB Technologies SUB12 (not very expensive)
- DB Technologies SUB15 ( " )

I had a Barefaced Midget on wich on of the foot worked out loose from time to time, i ended replacing the screw for a thicker one. My current Super12T is still free from foot problems.

HANDLE:

I have handles splitting on my Trace Elliot Boxer 15 and on the Laney floor monitor. I have friends who had to replace handles on their Marshall guitar amps and none of them complaint about it. Both the Midget i had and my S12T hadn't any problem with theirs but i'm aware that thw S12T's handle will start to plit eventually. When that happens i'll replace them with the new ones and won't complaint either.

FOAM:

Have you ever had a HK PA? Have you seen what happens to the foam they use to cover the front baffle??? In my rehearsall room we had two Turbosoung PA cabs also with a foam covered baffle and after a few rehearsalls we had to send the owner in to teka them out of there, the room was allways dirty with that sh*t. Alex released about 20 cabs with this type of padding before changing to something better, not a real issue with BF QC, is it?

Now, here's my most honest opinion regarding BF cabs:

Pros:

- Light weigt and compact
- Loud but still clear
- Full range sound and good perception of all the notes (people mistake this for sound quality but you can't quantify sound quality, it's subjective to every single one of us. I like a full range sound, great mid presence but others like some scoop on the mids and more sub-bass extention... either you like it or not!)
- Very rigid construction (no signs of weakness on any part of the wooden box)
- Pre and After sales service (Alex never left a single e-mail from me unanswered, it may time a few days but he allways replied. people must understand that a single person can't build cabs and attend to facebook/e-mail/basschat at the same time)

Cons:

- looks (i don't like the looks of my cabs, don't like the painted finish, makes it look too DIY and the metal grill doesn't make it any better. This doesn't put me off from buying one because i give more importance to the sound and portability. When i get tired of looking at my cab i'll pick up the sander and strip the paint, cover the cab in tolex and add some sexy silver cloth and white binding.
- handles (i would prefer something made of metal and recessed, Alex says it's difficult to do it but it's not impossible)
- lack of tilting device for the smaller cabs
- metal corners (they could be a bit prettier and more firm)


I think, in all fairness Barefaced cabs aren't overpriced when compared with other manufacturers, or have worse QC, the drivers are expensive and so are the x-over componontes. Every brand has its issues over one thing or another.


I don't want to start a fight here, this is just an example that i'm going to use inspired by the nickname of one of the BC'ers that are writting against BF (EBS_Freak).
I had two EBS cabs, a Neoline 110 and a Neoline 112:


(edit: i forgot to add that this three cabs are all on the same price bracket)

The handle on them wasn't the best option, even though it was recessed and offered the cab tilt option it would rattle at high volumes.

The corners were made of cheap plastic (one of them came broken inside the box)

The grill is made of some kind of mesh that usually is used on construction sites.

The cab was covered with carpet, the thing all cats love.

The feet... er... they don't have feet! So here's a point for EBS!

Sorry EBS_Freak, this is just an example, please understand, i could have used Stevie or Toasted but i don't know what gear they use. Nothing against you personally, ok?


Summing it up, all gear is great for somebody and a big waste of money for others, everyone has his own personal taste and everyone has the right to his opinion, express it as you like but start thinking before writting, please. This issue is strating to grow a beard...


Cheers
[/quote]

I'll leave it to Happy Jack - later in the thead. He's posted my PM.

Edited December 13, 2013 by EBS_freak

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1386870797' post='2305776']
Yes, that looks better. Couldn't you have used Velcro rather than the screws?
[/quote]

Yes but the cloth was attached to a very thin mdf framee, if i stuck it with velcro i was affraid i might break of fold it in two if i tried to remove it. There wasn't much space to fit a thicker frame and keep the cloth flush with the sides.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1386871181' post='2305785']
I wonder if Happy Jack would be so kind to repeat what I said about the EBS 1x10 and 1x12 cabs in our PM...
[/quote]

You're free to do it, like i said, i only used the "EBS" example from your nick and my personal experience with gear. I never said on my post that you prefered the Neos over BF. Hope you're not too upset with my post.

Cheers

[stevie]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1386871227' post='2305787']
Yes but the cloth was attached to a very thin mdf framee, if i stuck it with velcro i was affraid i might break of fold it in two if i tried to remove it. There wasn't much space to fit a thicker frame and keep the cloth flush with the sides.
[/quote]
OK.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1386871353' post='2305790']


You're free to do it, like i said, i only used the "EBS" example from your nick and my personal experience with gear. I never said on my post that you prefered the Neos over BF. Hope you're not too upset with my post.

Cheers
[/quote]

Funnily enough I prefer the prolines to the neoline EBS cabs...

Anyway, you wont upset me about criticising my gear. Ive done enough varied gigs to know what works for me and thats cool. If people dont like my gear Im not bothered but Id always take my own gear after years of refinement than use anything else. Im yet to find anything that I prefer.

Just for interest, heres an extract from my pm...


Similarly, despite my fan boy name, the EBS 1x10 and 1x12 are quite possibly the shittest bass cabinets ever made. I'm big enough to admit that. 

Edited December 12, 2013 by EBS_freak

[The Dark Lord]

I didn't like the look of mine either so did this to it ....... and got some stick from Alex for doing so ..... as he wanted all the cabs out there in the marketplace to have an identity. It's my cab, I'll do what I want with it. Just an extra stenciled cloth over the top of the grill. Now removed.

[SolomonHelsing]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1386878713' post='2305947']
I didn't like the look of mine either so did this to it ....... and got some stick from Alex for doing so ..... as he wanted all the cabs out there in the marketplace to have an identity. It's my cab, I'll do what I want with it. Just an extra stenciled cloth over the top of the grill. Now removed.


[/quote]

Nice one.

[Thunderbird]

I have never owned a BF cab so I am not going to spout on about something I know nothing about I think they look nice and I have heard them live and think they sound pretty good but in my honest opinion I do think they are very expensive but if people are buying them they must be worth the money

[Protium]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1386878713' post='2305947']
I didn't like the look of mine either so did this to it ....... and got some stick from Alex for doing so ..... as he wanted all the cabs out there in the marketplace to have an identity. It's my cab, I'll do what I want with it. Just an extra stenciled cloth over the top of the grill. Now removed.


[/quote]

Looks good, you paid your money - you can do what you like!

[IanA]

[quote name='Thunderbird' timestamp='1386879680' post='2305964']
I have never owned a BF cab so I am not going to spout on about something I know nothing about I think they look nice and I have heard them live and think they sound pretty good but in my honest opinion I do think they are very expensive but if people are buying them they must be worth the money
[/quote]

Look nice?!!! This is a thread about Barefaced cabs

[peteb]

FWIW - I've never really bought into the BF thing. I really don't like the looks, unconvinced about the concept and don't see why a cab needs to be THAT light. However, I had never played thru one or really seen one used in anger, so I have always reserved judgement on them.

Last weekend I saw a band with a really good bass player using a BF cab and it sounded really good. I had a brief chat with him and he said that he was generally pleased with the cab - he had a good 410 before but the BF compared well to it and he appreciated the weight!

I'm still not intending to flog my Berg to get one, but I certainly wouldn't dismiss them entirely based on the looks alone...

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1386871181' post='2305785']
I wonder if Happy Jack would be so kind to repeat what I said about the EBS 1x10 and 1x12 cabs in our PM...
[/quote]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1386871353' post='2305790']
You're free to do it, like i said, i only used the "EBS" example from your nick and my personal experience with gear. I never said on my post that you prefered the Neos over BF. Hope you're not too upset with my post.

[/quote]

Only just got back on-line, happy to oblige:

[color=#b22222][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Similarly, despite my fan boy name, the EBS 1x10 and 1x12 are quite possibly the shittest bass cabinets ever made (well, maybe second... [/font] [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]) I'm big enough to admit that. And yeah, the HD360 and TD660 were certainly not improvements on the originals... And they've moved all their pedal manufacturing to China and use sh*t switches which will fail.[/font][/i][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Excellent, balanced post Ghost_Bass. Regardless of whether you came down pro- or anti- the cabs in question, it's obvious that you have actual experience both of these cabs and of their direct competitors, and that you've thought the thing through before reaching for your keyboard.[/font][/color]

One last thought I'd like to chuck into this conversation before I start doing some actual ... erm ... y'know ... work: Alex has been making his cabs for just six years from a standing start, steadily improving them over that time, and isn't dead yet so I presume that he will continue to improve them for the foreseeable. Genuine Question: How long have Berg or TKS or EBS been making cabs?

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1386876168' post='2305892']
Funnily enough I prefer the prolines to the neoline EBS cabs...

Anyway, you wont upset me about criticising my gear. Ive done enough varied gigs to know what works for me and thats cool. If people dont like my gear Im not bothered but Id always take my own gear after years of refinement than use anything else. Im yet to find anything that I prefer.

Just for interest, heres an extract from my pm...


Similarly, despite my fan boy name, the EBS 1x10 and 1x12 are quite possibly the shittest bass cabinets ever made. I'm big enough to admit that.
[/quote]

This was never about criticising YOUR gear. It was a simple example, using a brand that you happen to know closely, to show that diferent people have diferent tastes and diferent POV about gear.

cheers