Barefaced. Now's your chance!!

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1386959032' post='2306905']
I'm sure a roadie would rather haul a '69er than an Ampeg fridge - but they are similarly priced, no?
[/quote]
Yeah, Ampeg is a bit more money, and I know which one I'd rather lift!
Ampeg =165lbs, BF=55lbs

Edited December 13, 2013 by Roland Rock

[Protium]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1386947975' post='2306721']
I wonder how many people would still use Barefaced if they were in a large, well paid touring band with roadies to do all the lifting...
[/quote]

I wonder how long a BF would last getting thrown in and out of a van twice a day.

[Conan]

[quote name='Protium' timestamp='1386960951' post='2306946']
I wonder how long a BF would last getting thrown in and out of a van twice a day.
[/quote]

From my experience, quite a while! The reputation for flimsiness is undeserved.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1386928663' post='2306445']
I'm starting to see a pattern emerge here. I could be wrong of course, but that doesn't normally stop people on here voicing their opinions!

Trawling back through some (most) of the Barefaced threads, there are some BC members who like to bait and antagonise Alex Claber. Several of these threads would have ended in horrendous arguments if Alex had defended his product as vehemently as those members attacked them. That he doesn't is a credit to him.

[/quote] This is the bit I don't get about it... I get that some folk don't like his stuff - well we all like different things.
I personally can't stand the tone of Mark Bass Little marks but I understand that for some folk they love them - different horses for courses etc....
but I'm not going to go on and on about it and start arguing with er... Mark?? [i]Marco De Virgiliis) [/i]about it.

I don't get the hating - if you don't like something don't buy it....


Mind you what I would like is all these barefaced critics to point me in the direction of something like the big baby 2 that I could build myself -that would be more useful!

[Conan]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1386964864' post='2307030']Mind you what I would like is all these barefaced critics to point me in the direction of something like the big baby 2 that I could build myself -that would be more useful!
[/quote]

You need advice on making babies?

[Merton]

[quote name='Protium' timestamp='1386960951' post='2306946']


I wonder how long a BF would last getting thrown in and out of a van twice a day.
[/quote]

3 years and going strong

[warwickhunt]

There is no option for a simple;

'I have tried a few/many of them and I do not like the sound that they exhibit'.
'I like my cabs with a tonal character/distortion/booty and the BF cabs don't give it'.

... actually it is very difficult to choose the words as they could be twisted/misinterpreted

[Merton]

Surely just a simple "I have tried a few and didn't like their core tone"?

Edit; I guess the closest is "Meh. I'm fine with others liking them, but - having tried them - they are not for me."

Edit edit; of course anyone who thinks that is completely wrong, a total w***er, and must burn in the fires of Mount Doom for eternity

Edited December 13, 2013 by Merton

[Billy Apple]

I was one of a pair of rouges who tried to destroy Alex's new 212 at the recent SE Bass Bash, my partner in crime was 5imon. Si had some unholy 1000watt digital amp, and I had my own Matamp GT200. We blew the windows out the place, and to be honest the whole thing was all kinds of stupid. But the cab stood it's ground, and I doubt any purchaser will give this cab the kind of abuse we did on that day. So they are certainly strong.

From a tonal perspective I've heard people say they are HiFi. I'd disagree and say they are transparent. The cab does not colour the sound in any way. What you hear is the bass and the amp, but you don't hear the cab (well of course you do, but you get my drift). I've always thought tweeters were too HiFi for me, and have never had them on a cab, I'm a meat and potatoes chap. But to dial one in, just to give you that 'cut' put a smile on my face. So it all made sense.

It was lovely to hear my valves cooking.

The bit where I fall down is they do feel so light weight, you think they'll break in your hands, and I can understand why people might equate this with a shoddy build quality. But it's an emotion rather than a control test of chucking it down some stairs. The finish is what it is, Stalinist not Restoration. But, it does the job, and you aint got to worry about the tolex getting ripped. And a nice cab with ripped tolex really does look duff.

You pays a lot of money for a BF, and to have a peripheral break must be hard to bear. But BF do seem to come good in the end with fixing stuff.

Anyway, the best sound I've ever had was playing through an Ampeg 810, but it's the size of a coffin, and without the pallbearers or a hearse it's practical application is somewhat limited. At least with the BF you get into the 80% region with a one hand lift and a back seat.

Never know, might buy one one day. Might buy a 212 Berg, played through a lovely one with a Markbass head.. etc etc..


Let your ears and heart make the choice.

[Conan]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1386971648' post='2307151']
Let your ears and heart make the choice.
[/quote]

Ears, yes. But where does the heart come in? I think that's what causes the problems with some people - their expectations based on past experiences.

Big + heavy = good

Light = cheap and shoddy. Lightweight box = lightweight tone.

Try 'em all, and go with what you like best! In my case, there are many brands and cabs yet to try - but I am yet to play/own a cab that I liked better than my Compact (except maybe my Vintage - but that was just a bit on the large side for what I am currently doing).

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1387006153' post='2307319']
Ears, yes. But where does the heart come in?
[/quote]

I think a lot of expensive purchases are driven by the heart, or desire, or whatever you want to call it.

Certainly logic, sound and practicality is a big part of the equation, but so is the un-quantifiable.

[chris_b]

Forget the heart, that's where all the BS comes from.

It's small so it can't be loud and can't go low, it's light so it can't be strong, it looks home made so it can't be any good.

Alex has a good product line. Any bass gear that can generate this much hot air has a lot going for it.

[Mikey R]

What Ive noticed in the past, is that people often get offended by the high price put on quality stuff they might want to buy but now have to think twice about.

A while ago, I watched a thread over on TB where the OP was really angry at how expensive a new Fodera is. The big problem was the upcharge on a scratchplate, and how criminally out of touch with the working bassist this high end company are. Madness.

Personally, I am very happy that people like Alex, Alan at ACG, Jon Shuker and all the other UK based builders of cool stuff can actually make a living doing what they love, and are willing to share their product with us. If we want one of their products, then paying for those products is how we support them so they can make more cool products. Alex, Alan and Jon invested way more in their small business than any owner invested in one of their products, they had to pay for the R&D for the first few units, set up shop, buy the equipment, and so on, before they were able to sell even their first unit. And I guarantee you, even though they are now established, none of these people are getting rich doing what they love.

Back to Barefaced, if you want one, and you save your pennies, you can have one. If you dont want one, you can spend your pennies on other things. If you want one, but dont want to save your pennies, then thats not a problem with the product.

[fatback]

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1387024927' post='2307514']
What Ive noticed in the past, is that people often get offended by the high price put on quality stuff they might want to buy but now have to think twice about.

A while ago, I watched a thread over on TB where the OP was really angry at how expensive a new Fodera is. The big problem was the upcharge on a scratchplate, and how criminally out of touch with the working bassist this high end company are. Madness.

Personally, I am very happy that people like Alex, Alan at ACG, Jon Shuker and all the other UK based builders of cool stuff can actually make a living doing what they love, and are willing to share their product with us. If we want one of their products, then paying for those products is how we support them so they can make more cool products. Alex, Alan and Jon invested way more in their small business than any owner invested in one of their products, they had to pay for the R&D for the first few units, set up shop, buy the equipment, and so on, before they were able to sell even their first unit. And I guarantee you, even though they are now established, none of these people are getting rich doing what they love.

Back to Barefaced, if you want one, and you save your pennies, you can have one. If you dont want one, you can spend your pennies on other things. If you want one, but dont want to save your pennies, then thats not a problem with the product.
[/quote]

+1000 Good sense.

Folk protesting at the existence of expensive things they can't afford need to take a look at themselves. Anyhow, it's a bass cabinet for goodness sake, not a treatment for cancer - who really cares if it's less than perfection?

Begrudgery is not a pretty sight. Anyone who starts up their own business making innovative products should get a hats off, whatever business they're in.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1386946929' post='2306712']
To be fair though, how many young, one-man companies have their products regularly displayed on big stages? And aren't a lot of those cabs mainly there because of sponsorship/endorsement deals? Or supplied by the venues themselves? And isn't the largest market of [i]all[/i] cab manufacturers the pub/club market? By sales?

So it's not really a fair comparison.

And of course they're not the only cab around - nobody said they were! But as a relatively new, UK-made product that is trying to be something a little bit different - I think the discussion is justified.
[/quote]

I think you can have a discussion but who needs someone posting another thread about an order they have made and then get a load more chime in
and keep the thread live. It wouldn't be so bad that someone is excited about a new cab... but there are just too many.. IMO.

You wont find them on stages as they look poor and the music biz can be as vain as any. Plus... you don't need a big low end cab.
Why do you think the 810 fridge is so well used? It isn't a complcated cab at all..it is pretty basic...but is easy to mix and doesn't flood the stage.
It is a bass monitor.... it can put out decent volume. You have guys moving and rigging bins, they don't need to carry anything..it is all on wheels and
load-ins are ramped... They are probably flight cased to boot...adding MORE lbs but weight considerations aren't the factor.

People may well be paid to use cabs.... who wouldn't use their power of exposure to cut a deal but it also has to work on a certain level.


Pubs may well be a big market.... but where do you see them..??
They seem to do well on here...but I have said before.
I could ask 10 bass players I know about BF cabs and I bet at LEAST 8/10 wouldn't know them from Adam...and where do those guys tend to play..?? yep..pubs.

[Budbear]

"I think you can have a discussion but who needs someone posting another thread about an order they have made and then get a load more chime in and keep the thread live."

- And, yet, here you are keeping the thread alive.


"It wouldn't be so bad that someone is excited about a new cab... but there are just too many.. IMO."


- So, you've taken it upon yourself to piss in their cornflakes because you're not enjoying their breakfast. Kind of sad, no?


"You wont find them on stages as they look poor and the music biz can be as vain as any. Plus... you don't need a big low end cab."


- Says you. I, and my 50 years of playing bass, strongly disagree on both points.


"Why do you think the 810 fridge is so well used?"


- They're mass-produced, highly promoted, easily available, usually do a decent job and many people fear change?


"You have guys moving and rigging bins, they don't need to carry anything..it is all on wheels and
load-ins are ramped... They are probably flight cased to boot...adding MORE lbs but weight considerations aren't the factor."

- Roadies? Really? That's irrelevant to at least 90% of bass players. Most schlep their own gear in and out of gigs.


"Pubs may well be a big market.... but where do you see them..??
They seem to do well on here...but I have said before.
I could ask 10 bass players I know about BF cabs and I bet at LEAST 8/10 wouldn't know them from Adam...and where do those guys tend to play..?? yep..pubs."


- I'll bet I can find 10 working players right here on Staten Island who've never heard of either Schroeder or Bergantino cabs, much less the hundreds who are unaware of Barefaced, Bill Fitzmaurice, Baer, Greenboy, AudioKinesis or any of the other out-of-the-mainstream cabs available. So what? How does that have anything to do with their quality?
I base my gear decisions on my own needs. I don't go through life concerning myself with other people's opinions of what I do. That would be pathetic.

I'd never heard of Barefaced cabs until about 2 years ago. I now own 2 of them and I've wasted a lot more of my money trying others to get what they do for me than they cost me ( and I've played through just about everything available to me for the last 50 years-I'm at NAMM just about every year). I like the way they look as well as the way they sound and I never gush about them. No problems with the handles, feet or finish. Nobody in the audiences I play in front of gives a damn about my gear except for the players out there and they always come to me after the gigs and compliment my tone and want to know more about the gear. I just send 'em to the website to learn like I did.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Budbear

[lojo]

I voted I'm happy with my current (markbass) rig , perhaps might next Gas attacked might see me try a barefaced from the second hand section though.

[Conan]

Welcome to the discussion Mr Budbear! Excellent post my friend!

The whole point of a bass guitarists' forum is that it represents the tip of the iceberg - the players who [b][i]are[/i][/b] interested in discussing their trade/hobby, who are interested in new gear, new techniques, styles, etc. By their very nature, they will be the ones who are open to new developments. Of course, for every bass player who is a member on here (and/or Talkbass) there will be dozens more who are not - who are happy to gig every weekend with their Ampeg, Trace Elliot, Peavey, Ashdown, SWR gear with no idea of and no interest in what else is out there. Goodluck to 'em!

What a dull world it would be if we all just stuck to old dogma

Edited December 15, 2013 by Conan

[Prime_BASS]

I''ve been too busy actually doing gigs and rehearsing to be bothered with all this diatribe.

I like it.
It's light.
It's loud.
I think it sounds good.
They arent that expensive.
They are fairly indestructible.

I would put any player that doesn't go on BC part of joe public, so asking them if theyve heard of Barefaced is like asking a non musician the discerning differences in basses.

[Dave_the_bass]

I don't usually get involved in the Barefaced bun fights, but I've got some time to kill so I thought I'd climb atop this rickety fence in the middle of the battle field and use it as my soapbox.

My experience of Barefaced cabs is limited, but I'll see if I can inject some logic to the argument.

Sound:
Never heard one let alone tried one with my amp. People always seem to argue about something that is so subjective. If you break down there comments they usually agree on what the sound is but one person likes it and the other doesn't. I used to here the same arguments over and over about ashdown, guessing the ashdown haters have moved in to one of the barefaced camps these days as all the ashdown threads are full of love!

Looks:
Never seen one in the flesh. The photos, both on here and on the barefaced website, lead me to the opinion that with the black grille I think they look a bit dull an un inspired, but with the silver cloth I think they look the dogs dangles.

Price:
Cheaper then Bergs. I like bergs and was lucky enough to score mine from this very website at a very good price. If I hadn't then I'd have paid full price. If I had gone down the barefaced route I'd have been of the same opinion. I don't mind paying a bit of a premium for something that I want if no budget brands can come close.

Weight:
Assuming the stated figures are correct, they're light! I'm fairly lucky that my arms don't fall of when I pick up something heavy. My berg 212 is quite a weighty beast but I can carry it for quite long distances. If weight is genuinely an issue for you then barefaced are a very good option.

Longevity:
I've seen the stories about handles and feet. I've also seen the rather rapid work that has been done to rectify the problem. Screams good customer service to me. Do you know what I've never seen? Someone saying "the driver in my bf cab has died". Surely that's the bit of the cab that matters the most.

Communication:
Before I went berg I contemplated barefaced so I emailed for advice. I told them what amps I use, what sort of music I play and what sort of sound I was looking to get. Do you know what happened? I got a reply! It was about two days later, which I think is reasonable, and we proceeded to have an email conversation over the next week. I asked some, with hindsight, stupid questions and I got reasoned responses that were very professional.

All in all, if I decided to get rid of my bergs, I wouldn't rule out barefaced for my next rig on the strength of the haters but I also wouldn't buy them on the strength of the fan boys.

[JTUK]

That is no bad stand point. They are others who are pretty indifferent.
It is just as viable that people don't get why other people don't rate their cabs much...
and when they say why, they get shot down..

People here tend to hear what they want to hear in topics and they seek solace in a clique or group and are forever posting about it.
This perpetuates the whole thing. It may also get a reaction and then you get these amusing bunfights.

I personally don't care what people use... why would it matter to me at all?
It doesn't mean anything either when people bang on about the way they think they sound
I'd only have an opinion about their sound if I saw them playing.... and took any notice.

As for the product itself... I think their presentation is not very good..the website and the look of the cabs themselves
need a professional approach and application as they are trying to inhibit a professional world.
If you try and set yourself up as trying to make a top notch product, make sure you deliver...and better still
let the industry judge you as such.
Having a few users here posting multiple threads about them doesn't add up to that IMO...

It is like anything else... if you pick a path to go down... there may come a point where you are judged by your choices.
As long as you are happy with that then, fine.
But if someone said your sound wasn't working, you'd be foolish to ignore them without good reason.
If that reason was...yeah, I know, but it is all I can carry.. well, that isn't the worst reason in the world, either


But.... I say this... there aren't that many threads to post on if there weren't so many about BF...
so just enjoy the banter. other than that, it really isn't my problem or concern.. :lol:

[KK Jale]

^Laughable horsecrap couched in fake sang-froid.

Just a bit of banter

[flyfisher]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1387126432' post='2308435']
. . . . I personally don't care what people use... why would it matter to me at all?

. . . . I'd only have an opinion about their sound if I saw them playing.... and took any notice.

. . . . other than that, it really isn't my problem or concern.
[/quote]

Long post for someone so indifferent.

[Musicman20]

The 'carry'/'weight' thing gets on my nerves a little. I am a skinny guy. I look after myself and hit the cardio a fair bit, but I am not that strong and I know it!

It's all in the lift, staying healthy and being super careful! Just ask for help!!!

However, I've never once thought 'this is too much to carry' when you have another band member, who will usually need a hand with a heavy 2x12/4x12 guitar cab, or a heavy Fender combo. Then you have the PA and the drums in their cases.

If you are on the tube or metro carrying gear, then you are braver than me! I would just take a bass and a decent DI if that was the case. I would never lug ANY cab no matter what the weight over a long distance.

It's nice to be able to get cabs that are pretty light, but it isn't everything to me. The king of cabs after MANY trials is still the Aguilar DB212, which is just under 70lbs and a big box! I need to A/B it more with the Genz NX2 as the Genz is much easier to move and sounds brilliant, but my all time favourite 'tone' is the DB212.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Musicman20

[LukeFRC]

So from what I read....

some people don't like them cos they think they don't look nice and/or question the quality of the build.
Or as JTUK said think the website isn't that well presented, which I don't think affects me mid gig but fair enough, I decided as a boy to support spurs over west ham based on the colour of the kit.


a lot more folk are possibly just a bit annoyed about all the fanboys (and girls) constantly hyping it up?
I guess that's a problem with internet forums, much more on the other side of the pond - where you get one brand or something which is flavour on the month and everyone raves about them being the best... and then 6 months later something else is the best.

Incidentally while talking about fanboys hyping products - and to put the barefaced stuff on here into perspective.... there's a load of love on the other side at the moment for a set of cabs of a design that claims to rewrite the laws of physics and seem to be selling based on the hype with no info or response charts released. Search for info on pro audio and industry design forums and you'll get a very different response to the claims made.

Even if you don't like the paint Barefaced seem to give the impression that they know what they're doing with their cab/driver designs!