Barefaced. Now's your chance!!

[Paul S]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1387132088' post='2308518']
The 'carry'/'weight' thing gets on my nerves a little. I am a skinny guy. I look after myself and hit the cardio a fair bit, but I am not that strong and I know it!

It's all in the lift, staying healthy and being super careful! Just ask for help!!![/quote]

See now, here's the thing. I am a big fella. For 25 years I used to shift heavy weights down the gym, looked after myself physically. 100kgs of Trace Elliot rig in and out of the car, no problem. Then - bang - lower back problem resulting in a weak sacro-iliac joint. I can assure you it isn't all in the lift, as I am equally sure that a load of other people on here who have issues with their back will tell you. Sorry if it gets on your nerves. I'm not overly impressed myself with having to live the rest of my life wondering when I am next going to have to ask help putting on my socks.

For me, and people like me, weight is of paramount importance when choosing gear. And Barefaced cabs are a Godsend.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Paul S

[discreet]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1387134949' post='2308557']
...lower back problem resulting in a weak sacro-iliac joint...
[/quote]

Same here. My two BFM 1X12s are 18kg each and my rack is about the same - some days that feels like just about enough.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1387134949' post='2308557']
See now, here's the thing. I am a big fella. For 25 years I used to shift heavy weights down the gym, looked after myself physically. 100kgs of Trace Elliot rig in and out of the car, no problem. Then - bang - lower back problem resulting in a weak sacro-iliac joint. I can assure you it isn't all in the lift, as I am equally sure that a load of other people on here who have issues with their back will tell you. Sorry if it gets on your nerves. I'm not overly impressed myself with having to live the rest of my life wondering when I am next going to have to ask help putting on my socks.

For me, and people like me, weight is of paramount importance when choosing gear. And Barefaced cabs are a Godsend.
[/quote]

No I agree, there is no need for excessive weight, and we SHOULD ALL make sure we don't put pressure on our backs. I am lucky to always have assistance with moving gear.

IMO - If its too heavy and wide to move yourself, use a £20 trolley off Amazon and get a friend to help with the lifts.

Thing is, even a light cab can damage your back!

[Paul S]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1387137610' post='2308597']
IMO - If its too heavy and wide to move yourself, use a £20 trolley off Amazon and get a friend to help with the lifts.
[/quote]

I have a trolley, which I found very useful for shifting my heavy rig when I had it. For moving lighter cabs about when you have a bad back it is actually more harmful than simply lifting and carrying one, as you end up being bent over - one of the worst things you can do. And relying on help from other people isn't an option because there are always times when there are no other people.

I know you mean well but it is probably best to avoid giving advice on issues you have evidently not experienced yourself as you clearly don't understand or appreciate what the issues involved and have just ended up sounding patronising. Rest assured that lightweight gear makes *all* the difference. Easily lifted cabs, lightweight basses, even access to my slip-on shoes so I don't have to tie laces!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1387138959' post='2308632']
I know you mean well but it is probably best to avoid giving advice on issues you have evidently not experienced yourself as you clearly don't understand or appreciate what the issues involved and have just ended up sounding patronising. Rest assured that lightweight gear makes *all* the difference. Easily lifted cabs, lightweight basses, even access to my slip-on shoes so I don't have to tie laces!
[/quote]

Not giving advice, just my view! Please do not take offence. I probably don't appreciate it, no, but then again I didn't appreciate moving my old bands Orange 4x12 guitar cabs about. I'm surprised none of the band did any damage considering we lugged them up/down stairs. Extremely awkward cabs.

I'm probably very lucky not to require light gear, but the big difference to me is lightweight heads. The cabs, not so much. It's more about form factor for cabs, with me anyway.

[JTUK]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1387130633' post='2308495']
Long post for someone so indifferent.
[/quote]

lol: well, sometimes you think a post is worth a decent reply...even if 'decent' means long :

[JTUK]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1387133752' post='2308543']
So from what I read....

some people don't like them cos they think they don't look nice and/or question the quality of the build.
Or as JTUK said think the website isn't that well presented, which I don't think affects me mid gig but fair enough, I decided as a boy to support spurs over west ham based on the colour of the kit.

[/quote]

I agree that a quality website can be a quite an expense, but I would be critical of bands using Myspace, for example.
or having a poor hash job, in general, so I think it is pertinent.

It just all goes to ...IMO...if you are going to do something, do it properly, so build is part of that, as is presentation.

If you need to cut costs ..and that may be very critical in these days... then that goes to how you can position yourself in the market...??
I don't see how you can try and proclaim or position yourself to be a top brand when there are flaws in the whole deal.
So, things like build QC, website, etc etc all kick in as far as I am concerned.
If you skimp on one thing, where else might this apply?

That is my thinking on things of this sort...

oh..and you should never support Spurs over West Ham..what on earth were you thinking

[PauBass]

I haven't had any experience with previous generations of Barefaced cabs so I can't speak about those but, generation 3 cabs I have tried three different models and they all were really well built and, by no means looked or felt weak/flimsy.
I come from having owned many cabs previously (Bergantinos, Aguilar, Ampeg, Hartke, Genz Benz...), and yes, maybe the tolex for some will make the cab look better and I understand the finish on Barefaced cabs might not be to everyone taste but, in fact I much prefer the look of the Barefaced cabs and I don't have to worry about ripped/marked tolex any more.

Can things be improved/changed on these cabs?
I'm sure some aspects could, nothing is perfect, and Barefaced seem to have been taken on board comments and work towards improving their product. All the QC issues on past genarations of cabs have been addressed on the Barefaced Generation 3.

In the end I went with a Big Twin 2 and, so far, I couldn't be happier, I love its tone and the versatility of this cab with the added crossover. It's ultra loud and handles all my effects with no problems (octave, distortion, synth, chorus, falnger...)

I have to say I have always been a big/heavy cab kind of guy and I have always had my doubts about lightweight gear, but this has been an eye opener for me and, for now, I'm not looking back.

...and they are not that ugly, are they?...at least to my eyes

[url="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/PauBass/media/photo2_zps73b0b12c.jpg.html"][/url]

Edited December 15, 2013 by PauBass

[Musicman20]

I'm sure that cab performs excellently! For me the finishing touches would be black screws, different badge/repositioned.

However, I can't get over how good the amp would sound,work and look with a pair of DB212s

Edited December 15, 2013 by Musicman20

[PauBass]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1387145567' post='2308787']
I'm sure that cab performs excellently! For me the finishing touches would be black screws, different badge/repositioned.

However, I can't get over how good the amp would sound,work and look with a pair of DB212s
[/quote]

Yes, black screws would be a better choice I agree...I'm sure Alex will listen and add this to his list.

Well, with a pair of DB212 it must sound huge too, never tried them but I have to say with a DB410 I didn't like it as much...and I'm a huge Aguilar fan, have used their amps exclusively for over 4 years!

[JTUK]

Talking about 2xDB210's against a DB212...
I never thought I'd say this... but I much prefer the 212.. and regularly A/B them

Of course, I could run all of them

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1387144039' post='2308768']
I agree that a quality website can be a quite an expense, but I would be critical of bands using Myspace, for example.
or having a poor hash job, in general, so I think it is pertinent.

It just all goes to ...IMO...if you are going to do something, do it properly, so build is part of that, as is presentation.

If you need to cut costs ..and that may be very critical in these days... then that goes to how you can position yourself in the market...??
I don't see how you can try and proclaim or position yourself to be a top brand when there are flaws in the whole deal.
So, things like build QC, website, etc etc all kick in as far as I am concerned.
If you skimp on one thing, where else might this apply?

That is my thinking on things of this sort...

oh..and you should never support Spurs over West Ham..what on earth were you thinking
[/quote] Well.... we've seem to have gone backwards now King has retired, but that Bale hat trick in the champions league... we lost the game but that was worth all the Darren Anderton injuries, the defensive frailties, Rebrovs, Berbatov sulks, the new manager every 3 months...

My background is visual and marketing, I'm a graphic designer. So it's with that hat on I'm talking.
Yes visuals and brand are very important, a good website is vital - I may have bought a East J retro in the past and didn't as their old website was such a pile of poo.... but I don't think in the market we're looking at it matters. Yeah Barefaced's website isn't the best (and new info hasn't been put on in the most logical way) and the logo is.... well it would be a fun rebranding project... but I don't believe it matters. Why? Simply Barefaced aren't and "top brand", they aren't ampeg or Cort or Warwick or FMI corp or someone. They are a small operation who are currently running at manufacturing capacity, but their customers aren't relating to them in the same way we would a big brand.
Say FMI corp - they produce this product called a Fender Jazz bass, they have the history and heritage to play on and it's a good product, they own a factory in america to make some, and a factory in mexico and get Cort to make versions in China and taiwan or wherever - badge them differently at different price points and bob's your uncle.
We buy our Fenders. What separates the fairly generic product made by Cort with Fender on the headstock to the one with one of their own brands is partially down to the brand. Fender need to spend money on their website and marketing and dealer networks and whatever - they need to have "professional" presentation because that professional presentation and brand value is their profit margin on the reasonably generic product.

Barefaced's profit is in their product, not their presentation. Let me put it this way - say I knew a bit about bass speakers, or pickups, or preamps or something.... and I went away and came up with a, say a pickup that was in some way 10% better than anything else on the market (and here's where better is subjective, hence why we can stop all the hating )
Now I would go visit Alpher my local luthiers and show them, I might show a few others word would get out and pretty soon I'm sure I could have a reasonable amount of folk wanting to buy my pup - cos it's 10% better than the rest of the field.
So it goes on, and lots of folk suddenly want my product, maybe it's good value (Wizzard Pickups) or maybe its pricy but amongst the best out there (J Retro) if it's a good product people will want it.
Maybe then I go into R&D, try and improve it, I look to how I could use Facebook and twitter and forums to promote it. Maybe I would write for a magazine and share my knowledge on pickups with others - knowing that it's the fact I'm considered knowledgable enough to write in a magazine about speakers, sorry pickups validates some of the claims I'm putting behind my products.... and it works, my new pickups are even better, people want them cos they work.... and if the product works it doesn't matter that much what the website looks like. Yeah in the future maybe, maybe he'll branch out into PA stuff and the big money in installs and suddenly a £100k marketing budget is worth it...

anyway, If someone swaps me one for an [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/224555-solution-to-your-barefaced-problems-found/"]aubergine[/url] I'll test out scuffing the paint for everyone...

[Conan]

If Barefaced had a slick website, people would accuse them of being all style over substance or "fur coat an' nae knickers".

You can't win!

[Bass Culture]

Whilst I think I may be veering slightly off topic here, I'm tempted to observe that there's many a company who have been dashed on the rocks of their own success, and many a product/manufacturer that has been quietly bought up and buried by conglomerates more interested in safe guarding their own interests and own product than offering the marketplace (whatever marketplace) new, innovative and 'better' goodies. Personally I love Alex's 'not very slick, all the information you could want and then-some'-approach. A triumph of substance over a style, as far as I'm concerned, and something of a novelty to offer a product designed to appeal to customers on the basis of performance rather than aesthetic considerations.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1387132088' post='2308518']
The 'carry'/'weight' thing gets on my nerves a little.
....
It's nice to be able to get cabs that are pretty light, but it isn't everything to me.
[/quote]

I get that its no big deal to you, but why does it annoy you that its a key factor for others ?.

Personally I detest gear that looks like a 1960's "gramophone" but if other people like that sort of thing and are prepared to pay some premium for it then thats fine by me.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1387191932' post='2309077']
I get that its no big deal to you, but why does it annoy you that its a key factor for others ?.

Personally I detest gear that looks like a 1960's "gramophone" but if other people like that sort of thing and are prepared to pay some premium for it then thats fine by me.
[/quote]

'Annoy' was perhaps a strong wordI realise this is a serious matter for anyone with injuries, but there are no doubt many who have no issues, have a full band of willing helpers, good transport, etc, who have developed this obsession with the new technology regarding 'one schelp from car to gig'. If you want to go that route, just use in ears with a high end DI. Then you don't need the cab!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Bass Culture' timestamp='1387189989' post='2309058']
of a novelty to offer a product designed to appeal to customers on the basis of performance rather than aesthetic considerations.
[/quote]

...but you can achieve both, and its not just aesthetics.

[chris_b]

These Barefaced threads are getting very dull and repetitive.

If people don't like something, make your point and move on.

[Beedster]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1387195245' post='2309140']
These Barefaced threads are getting very dull and repetitive.

If people don't like something, make your point and move on.
[/quote]

Ain't that the truth, I know that bass forums exist to allow folks to talk bass, and I know that most discussions go around in circles to an extent and then reappear in new guise down the road, but this is largely just dull. So what if player A has a roadie and doesn't understand why player B values lightweight gear, so what if player C values aesthetics and doesn't understand how player D could take to the stage with anything but a design classic.

I think Luke's post (113) was spot on though so perhaps this thread is useful after all

[Conan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1387194035' post='2309114']
I realise this is a serious matter for anyone with injuries, but there are no doubt many who have no issues, have a full band of willing helpers, good transport, etc, who have developed this obsession with the new technology regarding 'one schelp from car to gig'.[/quote]

I think you are the one coming across as "obsessed"!

I have no back-related problems as such, but I am in my late forties now. No matter how many people are in my band, they are not there when I load my car up at the start of the night. Often, as I am first to get to most gigs and rehearsals, there will be nobody there to help me load in.

I have a busy life, so I don't want to waste my time doing things I dislike. I dislike carrying heavy, awkward-shaped objects around (when there is an alternative). I have done my time transporting a Trace Elliot stack by myself. Weaving in between drunken punters and posing singers carrying two large, nearly 50kg boxes (sometimes one in each hand!) soon gets wearing, as does skinning one's knuckles on countless doorways and bannisters.

Nowadays, I can concentrate more on the actual playing instead of the furniture removal.

If that gets on your nerves, well I'm sorry - but that's [i]your[/i] problem!

[Conan]

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' timestamp='1386843606' post='2305165']
Padlock ready...
[/quote]

Well, I have to say that after five pages and a lot of debate, that this thread has not been the car crash that some predicted!

Well done Basschat!

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1387194035' post='2309114']
... this is a serious matter for anyone with injuries ...
[/quote]

Not sure if I should break this to you, but you don't need to be injured to have lumbar problems. They tend to come along as a freebie when you get a bit older.

Also (and I'm not suggesting that you're laughing at it) but lumbar problems share one key element with sea sickness ... only funny until it happens to you. After that, you take it deadly serious.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1387208294' post='2309351']
I think you are the one coming across as "obsessed"!

I have no back-related problems as such, but I am in my late forties now. No matter how many people are in my band, they are not there when I load my car up at the start of the night. Often, as I am first to get to most gigs and rehearsals, there will be nobody there to help me load in.

I have a busy life, so I don't want to waste my time doing things I dislike. I dislike carrying heavy, awkward-shaped objects around (when there is an alternative). I have done my time transporting a Trace Elliot stack by myself. Weaving in between drunken punters and posing singers carrying two large, nearly 50kg boxes (sometimes one in each hand!) soon gets wearing, as does skinning one's knuckles on countless doorways and bannisters.

Nowadays, I can concentrate more on the actual playing instead of the furniture removal.

If that gets on your nerves, well I'm sorry - but that's [i]your[/i] problem!
[/quote]

I have a problem now?!?!? I'm slightly confused.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1387208664' post='2309359']
.....you don't need to be injured to have lumbar problems.....
[/quote]

+1

Like tinnitus, back problems should be dealt with [i]before[/i] you suffer from them.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1387208664' post='2309359']
Not sure if I should break this to you, but you don't need to be injured to have lumbar problems. They tend to come along as a freebie when you get a bit older.

Also (and I'm not suggesting that you're laughing at it) but lumbar problems share one key element with sea sickness ... only funny until it happens to you. After that, you take it deadly serious.
[/quote]

I'm pretty aware of this having had a close friend suffering from horrific back problems at the age of 27 and still having them now 3 years on.

There is no need for a medical discussion. I offered my opinion, and I got that advice off an old friend who has always carried gear around with a trolley.