Cones

[stevie]

[quote name='funkle' timestamp='1387493877' post='2312765']
I'd like to know models of these, if you'd be happy enough to point me in the right direction? As a relative newbie to this I'd like to be able to look at the driver spec sheets...if I can...
Again, did you have specific models in mind? (I've just bought some books on loudspeaker design and I'm trying to absorb more info on the subject.)
[/quote]

Just a quickie (I'll continue this discussion another time - some interesting comments being made) - check out the catalogues from these manufacturers, who are the BMW/Mercedes of the speaker world at the moment: 18Sound, B&C, Beyma, BMS, Faital, RCF. These companies also make very good compression drivers.

There are other companies making very good speakers but these guys have an in-depth range and some state-of-the-art designs (3,200 watt 18s, for example). JBL drivers are excellent, but you can't buy them as a consumer, and companies like Ciare and Precision Devices make some very good stuff but don't have such a wide product range.

[stevie]

[quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1387562472' post='2313465']
I go for cones that do me good. Not fussed about size.
[/quote]
You sound like my wife (bless her).

Edited December 20, 2013 by stevie

[funkle]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1387547050' post='2313215']

Simplexx is a cost no object bass reflex. There's only so much you can do with a bass reflex. You can load it with more expensive drivers, but otherwise that's about it.

I received my Kappalite samples six months before they went on the market, I had bass reflex prototypes using them a year before Greenboy put anything out, and I designed one of the best reviewed 1x12/1x5 cabs that uses an OEM Kappalite 12 (I can't say which, as the first thing you sign when taking on a design contract is a non-disclosure agreement, as no company wants it known that they employ independent designers). I don't use a Kappalite loaded bass reflex myself, I use a Jack 12 Lite. I introduced Simplexx because I had many requests for an easy to build design that still met my quality standards, not because bass reflex is better than or even equal to what I already offered.
[/quote]

Thanks Bill. I think I understand you have a preference for horn loaded designs, I can understand designing the Simplexx range as a purely market-led response.

I may have an idea of whom you designed the cab for, but respect your NDA.

I've liked the look of the Jack 12 Lite in terms of efficiency, but I wonder if coming from an Acme whether I'd find the presentation of the mids qute different from what I'm used to. Another cab to try out, eventually, I guess.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1387569515' post='2313576']
Just a quickie (I'll continue this discussion another time - some interesting comments being made) - check out the catalogues from these manufacturers, who are the BMW/Mercedes of the speaker world at the moment: 18Sound, B&C, Beyma, BMS, Faital, RCF. These companies also make very good compression drivers.

There are other companies making very good speakers but these guys have an in-depth range and some state-of-the-art designs (3,200 watt 18s, for example). JBL drivers are excellent, but you can't buy them as a consumer, and companies like Ciare and Precision Devices make some very good stuff but don't have such a wide product range.
[/quote]

Thank you kindly. I will start investigating.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='bumnote' timestamp='1387564740' post='2313503']
What about the phil jones 5" jobbies? I have graduated to an 8x5 pjb [sometimes with an added 4x5] from an acoustic 360 driving a 2x15 and although its not as loud, I get some great sounds from it. It doesn't lack the real bottom that the ashdown 4x8 I tried had . I also use it in a jam environment where it gets used by other people either with my bass or their own. It projects nicely all round the room.

I originally thought it was a gimmick but it works really well. I would love to try on of the big rigs with 24 or more speakers
[/quote]

This is probably a great example of what I'm saying about compromises. Phil Jones embraces the advantages of small cones, lightweight, good dispersion, clean mids, compact cabs and so on and then deals with the downsides in a unique way and makes the compromise work. I love the idea of a vertical 4x5 'suitcase' and one day I'm going to build myself a vertical 4x6 with the best drivers available to me as an amateur fiddler.

It's no problem getting down low, just ad a floppy suspension and a bit of extra weight to the cone. My hi-fi drivers are 5" Focals and don't do a bad stab at the low notes from a church organ so electric bass is no problem. that's tuning not size. You can even get reasonable volume by increasing the excursion. The extra weight and the extra coil length will cut down on efficiency though. You can get this back up by using a more powerful magnet but this adds weight, so you have to balance all these. You can also get some efficiency back by using multiple drivers but again this adds weight and cabinet volume. If you put the drivers side by side to pack more in then you lose the dispersion advantage. Get all the competing issues well balanced and you'll end up with a cab some people love.

In this case you get clean, tight portable but with some restriction in absolute volume, as you say in your post.

As I am saying size isn't the only factor but it does affect the way the compromises pan out in the finished design.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1387545266' post='2313174']
I can't say that much because I don't want other manufacturers to catch on to some of what we're doing (I'm sure Stevie is rolling his eyes at this and thinking that it's just more 'hyperbole' and smoke and mirrors...) but we doing things with the new drivers that some of these posts suggest is impossible.



[b]I've just had a look through the technical pages on our site to see if any of them can be read between the lines to get a feel for what we're doing [/b]but having scanned through them I see that I have been quite circumspect about what we're doing. Much as part of me wants to go, "ta da! How clever is that?" I shall instead say that post 39 and 40 are on the right track, post 42 doesn't address that unless bandpassed that midrange drivers all tend to have quite unique 'sounds' due to their break-up modes, 10"s and 12"s can have pretty decent dispersion from 1-2kHz with the right soft parts, and post 44's first paragraph states the 'impossible' problem that we've solved, yes of course we've measured dispersion (!), and I agree about passive crossovers.

Hope that's not too annoying a post, I would love to say more but I don't think that doing so would be a sensible business decision! (I have noticed that the big PA players are being more and more cagey about what they're up to too, to my great disappointment because I've learnt a lot from their writings).
[/quote]

Careful Alex, that looks like a challenge to some of us

It would be a shame if people did clam up. I don't really think there really is anything ground breaking likely to happen, just a better use of the tech that is available to all of us at a price. I'm fairly confident that within a day or two of getting hold of one of your cabs a few of us here could copy all you ideas, the idea that JBL or even Behringer couldn't work out what you are doing and clone it seems unlikely.

I also think you couldn't stop yourself from giving the game away, over the years I think you have been scrupulous in what you put out publicly. Like any decent scientist you qualify your statements so that even when simplifying things for clarity you leave a trail.

Having tried to do what you are now succeeding in I hope you do well with the new range.

Now to see what I can glean from your website, much more fun than the Guardian crossword