artisan Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) They will just not learn,for the past two years i have tried to get them to control their volume levels but alas they will not learn. We are a small three piece rockabilly/country band with two guitars & me on DB,so we have no need to play at high volume. However at last saturdays gig in a very small venue i had to have my 600w Genz rig cranked to 3/4 volume just to keep up,bloody rediculous. Of course that left me fighting feedback all night long which of course meant i ended up with a really sh*te sound. I've tried explaining things to them but it seems once a guitar is strapped on some people just become utterly selfish twats. I have given them the next two gigs to sort it out or i leave the band,they think i am being unreasonable am i ? Edited December 17, 2013 by artisan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 [quote name='artisan' timestamp='1387280378' post='2310097'] They will just not learn,for the past two years i have tried to get them to control their volume levels but alas they will not learn. I have given them the next two gigs to sort it out or i leave the band,they thing i am being unreasonable am i ? [/quote] You've given them 2 years to sort it out and finally a clear ultimatum of 2 more strikes and then they're out, I'd say you're been suitably reasonable matey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 theyl soon change minds if one third of the bands says its leaving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Surely the punters must also think they are too loud? If you can get some comments from the crowd then that should help persuade your guys to turn down. The alternatives are to get a mag pickup (no feedback; make the guitarists split the cost between them) or to pack up and find another band. I'd be inclined to find out what the audience thinks first though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 When i have been in this situation before I turned my bass way way way down and left the band stranded having no option but to also turn down to hear the bass. Lower volumes in small venue always works so much better anyway ...you never know they might learn something here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 Thanks guys Clarky - even the landlady complained about the volume level, my missus was watching & said it was the loudest we have ever been,almost to painfull infact. I have considered a mag' pickup in the past but i like the way my bass sounds with the piezo & clicky setup whereas a mag' would most likley just sound like a mega P bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 [quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1387281059' post='2310110'] When i have been in this situation before I turned my bass way way way down and left the band stranded having no option but to also turn down to hear the bass. Lower volumes in small venue always works so much better anyway ...you never know they might learn something here! [/quote] you know that is an excellent idea,i may do just that at the next gig Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I feel your pain. There's no reason a band needs to be stupidly loud unless it's SUNN O))) or something like that. The thing is, if they tried playing at a reasonable volume, they'd probably like it. Strangely, most of the bands I play in that suffer from this problem do it because they're all deaf. Because they play too loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) My band plays the same kind of stuff your band plays and I have been in a similar situation with our egotistical guitarist. After a particularly loud and messy sounding gig I had a chat with the drummer and persuaded him to play with canes rather than sticks. What this did was force the guitarist to play quieter or risk drowning out the drummer and losing the beat. Since your band is rockabilly/country it should add to the authenticity of the sound. If I were you I'd even go as far as getting him to play with brushes which would bring the volume right down. edit: I just realised you don't have a drummer. My advice is to get one (and get him to play with brushes). Edited December 17, 2013 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 [quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1387281059' post='2310110'] When i have been in this situation before I turned my bass way way way down and left the band stranded having no option but to also turn down to hear the bass. Lower volumes in small venue always works so much better anyway ...you never know they might learn something here! [/quote] Superb! I see this as a thread about professionalism, not a thread about volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 If you've tried talking to them about the volume and they're still turning up, it seems to me that they're more interested in what they sound like rather than what the band sounds like. Personally, I'd walk and find some actual musicians to play with. There's plenty of bands out there looking for double bassists and it doesn't sound like you're enjoying yourself much. If you want to try one last shot, I'd tell them that you're going to leave because they're so loud that you can't compete on volume, so you may as well not be there as your musical contribution is neither audiable or, it would seem, required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I was once asked to go and see my mate's band as they were getting regular complaints. I explained after the gig that if it hadn't been for the three rows of people in front of me acting as a bit of a baffle, I would have left as the guitarist was almost making me feel sick as his amp was so loud and cutting in such a small pub. They asked me to go to a rehearsal and try and talk to him as they were all scared of dealing with him (he was a bit of a prodigy and it was his band). I suggested he turn his amp around and use it as a front facing wedge (he had a Fender Deville or Twin that had the side stands on it). Halfway through the song he threw his guitar across the room and stropped "it sounds s**t, I'm getting a headache". "Now you know how your punters feel" was all I had to say..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 Thanks for all the replis guys You are of course spot on with all you say & it would seem i am a reasonable chap after all The guitarists egos are certainly the problem as even though the gig was a total racket both of them thought it was good & don't see what the problem is ! Its pretty unbelieveable really,neither of them actually listen to the band as a whole but just to themselves which is pretty sad really considering how long they have been playing. I do feel a little awkward though as the lead guitarist is in fact my older brother,who actually complains to me about the volume of the rhythm guitar but won't say anything to the player or back me up if i say anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbytodd Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 lol I tried turning down once.no bugger noticed me miming half of our set.that's the trouble with having two guitarists all's fine during sound check then one feels he isn't loud enough turns up then its all out war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Is the other guitarist also the singer in the band by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 IMO the guitarists need to get smaller amps. I gigged (guitar) for many years, and it took me a while to realize that, in a pub, even a 15-20w valve amp is generally too much. Most guitarists think they need 50-100w amps, which is just totally wrong unless you're playing festivals and big venues (even then you can mic a small amp), naturally big tube amps only sound good when they're driven hard, which results in totally stupid stage volumes. What amps are they using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) [quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1387285254' post='2310190'] Is the other guitarist also the singer in the band by any chance? [/quote] yes indeed he is,his wife comes to most gigs & seems to have appointed herself as musical director. Naturally all she wants to hear is hubby. Edited December 17, 2013 by artisan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 [quote name='6v6' timestamp='1387285837' post='2310204'] IMO the guitarists need to get smaller amps. I gigged (guitar) for many years, and it took me a while to realize that, in a pub, even a 15-20w valve amp is generally too much. Most guitarists think they need 50-100w amps, which is just totally wrong unless you're playing festivals and big venues (even then you can mic a small amp), naturally big tube amps only sound good when they're driven hard, which results in totally stupid stage volumes. What amps are they using? [/quote] the rhythm guy uses an AER which is damn loud for such a small amp. My brother used a Fender blues deluxe which also makes a right row,he plays a Gretsch too so it can be very cutting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 [quote name='artisan' timestamp='1387286133' post='2310208'] yes indeed he is,his wife comes to most gigs & seems to have appointed herself as musical director. Naturally all she wants to hear is hubby. [/quote] Bingo - maybe thats the real issue here ! Increasing volume can be down to a singer not really being that confident in their abilities. Its much more comfortable playing louder and distorted in a wall of sound than playing quiet where everyone is more critical because they can hear every note. Are rehearsals equally loud? Could you and your brother join forces and suggest that "to make sure that the set is really polished" , that you do an acoustic unamplified rehearsal? If the singer hears the songs and they sound great unplugged he may well go that way live or at least turn down. If the singing is shockingly bad ...well theres your reason why the volume gets cranked up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I've never understood this problem with guitarists. I just don't accept it from the off. They do as they are told. I don't understand why they seem to be held up higher in the band hierachy. There is no musical hierachy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyd Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 [quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1387286732' post='2310220'] Could you and your brother join forces and suggest that "to make sure that the set is really polished" , that you do an acoustic unamplified rehearsal? If the singer hears the songs and they sound great unplugged he may well go that way live or at least turn down. If the singing is shockingly bad ...well theres your reason why the volume gets cranked up! [/quote] +1. Being able to play well quietly is one of the most overlooked musical skills IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 [quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1387288153' post='2310246'] +1. Being able to play well quietly is one of the most overlooked musical skills IMHO. [/quote] Respect! just did a tour with a drummer. In the rehearsal we all noticed and remarked about how quiet he was. Best drummer i've ever played with. Great control of dynamics, great groove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 [quote name='artisan' timestamp='1387280378' post='2310097'] They will just not learn,for the past two years i have tried to get them to control their volume levels but alas they will not learn. We are a small three piece rockabilly/country band with two guitars & me on DB,so we have no need to play at high volume. However at last saturdays gig in a very small venue i had to have my 600w Genz rig cranked to 3/4 volume just to keep up,bloody rediculous. Of course that left me fighting feedback all night long which of course meant i ended up with a really sh*te sound. I've tried explaining things to them but it seems once a guitar is strapped on some people just become utterly selfish twats. I have given them the next two gigs to sort it out or i leave the band,they think i am being unreasonable am i ? [/quote] As you know from some of our conversations.... I feel ya pain !! Our drummer (who comes and goes ) has finally got the message that all he needs is a snare and cymbal, but our rhythm guitarist still thinks he is playing Wembley....even at rehearsals Quitting the band is a big step. Im sure you would have no problem finding another band to play with, but how would it affect your relationship with your brother ?? Cant you get your brother onside to have a go at the other fella ??? ....and by the sounds of it, you definitely need to have a word with "yoko" ...and get her to keep her nose out........ GOOD LUCK with whatever you decide my friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) [quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1387281059' post='2310110'] When i have been in this situation before I turned my bass way way way down and left the band stranded having no option but to also turn down to hear the bass. Lower volumes in small venue always works so much better anyway ...you never know they might learn something here! [/quote] Great idea! [quote name='artisan' timestamp='1387286133' post='2310208'] yes indeed he is,his wife comes to most gigs & seems to have appointed herself as musical director. Naturally all she wants to hear is hubby. [/quote] Hmmm. I'm sure this is part of the problem... Some guitarists do seem to want to hear themselves more than anyone else (not all of them though) and if their partner is convincing him he needs to be louder too..... To my mind, quitting the band is perhaps a tad too much You will probably find another band quickly but there remains the possibility that you may not - and you have to weigh that up I was recently looking for a band for a long time - far longer than I thought I'd have to after a band I was in folded.... Maybe you could look around to see how many other bands are around your area playing the sort of stuff you want to do, and let the other band members know you're thinking about looking at these other bands because you're not completely happy with the sound.... Let them know why, and tell them that landlady's thoughts to support your view Either way, let us know what you decide, or how you get on with convincing the other members I'm sure they'll know a double bass player is a rarer breed than a guitarist Cheers and good luck Edited December 17, 2013 by Marc S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 [quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1387286732' post='2310220'] Bingo - maybe thats the real issue here ! Increasing volume can be down to a singer not really being that confident in their abilities. Its much more comfortable playing louder and distorted in a wall of sound than playing quiet where everyone is more critical because they can hear every note. Are rehearsals equally loud? Could you and your brother join forces and suggest that "to make sure that the set is really polished" , that you do an acoustic unamplified rehearsal? If the singer hears the songs and they sound great unplugged he may well go that way live or at least turn down. If the singing is shockingly bad ...well theres your reason why the volume gets cranked up! [/quote] Another possibility spotted by Ubassman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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