Lied to by Music shop and poor repair work.

[Wooks79]

My main issue would be with the 'repaired' amp. As the manufacturer have been good so far, if be tempted to express your distrust of their repair based in their other work, and ask if the manufacturer may be happy to offer a complete replacement themselves?

Slim chance, but worth and email I'd say!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1387314487' post='2310681']
I think it always helps to state how disgruntled one is in writing; in your case you might write a letter to the shop; even though you've already spoken to them;
[/quote]

Agreed. In fact, always follow up verbal complaints with a letter referring to the conversation and repeating all the points discussed.

A telephone complaint is bad enough for the shop but as soon as the call finishes they can forget about it. A letter on their desk requires more definite action, even if it's just tearing it up, and a letter also provides a record of events in case things need to be escalated in the future.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1387310270' post='2310609']
It's not that simple. You can ask for a refund but if the goods were bought months ago it is too long a time period to 'reject' them. If the goods can't be repaired you can then demand a replacement.
[/quote]
You're correct on the rejection timescale, but I'd still kick up a stink if they're acting like wazzicks.
Sale of goods act is up to 5 years in Scotland & 6 in England & Wales.
I had a 3 year old Xbox 360 replaced under the SoGa due to a "known" fault. I stated that it was poor workmanship & not fit for purpose. Game put up a fight, but they then gave in when I threatened legal action.
If the item is less than 6 months old, then it's up to the seller to prove that the item is not faulty.

[quote name='SlipperySquid' timestamp='1387310307' post='2310611']
Already thought about that but it doesn't work. It's down to the manufacturers choice.
[/quote]

The contract is with you & the seller, NOT the manufacturer.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1387318186' post='2310748']
You're correct on the rejection timescale, but I'd still kick up a stink if they're acting like wazzicks.
Sale of goods act is up to 5 years in Scotland & 6 in England & Wales.
[/quote]
Yes i agree. I'd also kick up a stink if they were like that.

[oggiesnr]

I know the shop you're talking about and it's not as good as it used to be I don't know why but the offer is a lot poorer both on instruments and accessories and strings. My last three visits have resulted in no purchases even though I had the cash and went on to purchase elsewhere.

There are better luthiers in the area (the town centre shops have better ones)

Steve

[SlipperySquid]

Cheers again chaps,
I'll put my thoughts to paper and send them to both Blackstar and the shop in question!

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1387320697' post='2310788']
I know the shop you're talking about and it's not as good as it used to be I don't know why but the offer is a lot poorer both on instruments and accessories and strings. My last three visits have resulted in no purchases even though I had the cash and went on to purchase elsewhere.

There are better luthiers in the area (the town centre shops have better ones)

Steve
[/quote]

Glad it's not just me being an asshole then Steve.PM me your recommendations when you get a chance sir! I was going to take it to a guy near Doncaster as I'd read good things about him (I think it was Stuart Palmer) I wish I had but on the shops recommendation I used there in house one.

I'll see how this goes at the weekend when I go in!

[4000]

[quote name='SlipperySquid' timestamp='1387299725' post='2310454']
Hi all!

Just looking for a bit of advice really on what course of action I could take or expect?

My son bought an amp locally instead of using the internet as I'm a firm believer in supporting your local shops in any hobby I do so decided to pass this on.

Anyway he decided on the amp (Not cheap by the way just under a grand, don't want to name brands or anything as yet)

was over the moon with it until after 6 months it developed a fault, no biggy as it's warranted for 3 years.

Took it back to the shop explained the fault and they said that it had to go back to the manufacturers. All well and good.

Son was disapointed as he had two gigs back to back but these things happen.

After a week I phoned to see if any progress had been made because in a couple of weeks time he would need the amp for recording. I was assured that they would phone the manufacturers and get a estimated time.

After about another 4 days I had no return call but but decided to get one of my sons guitars frets dressed, new heavier guage strings and a full setup. So took that in and got the guitar off to there in house luthier. I asked again about the amp and the guy said they had heard nothing back but would ring again and follow up.

Got the guitar back after a week got it home to find a pretty poor job over all, file marks on all the frets, intonation being out, strings not sitting in the nut correctly and even one of the frets still containing wear! Pissed off to say the least as it was supposed to be part of a Christmas present.

Well today after nearly three weeks I decided to phone the manufacturer themselves to see what was going as as my son is recording tomorrow, to be told they hadn't even received the amp in question! and they would phone the shop in question.

Low and behold within ten minutes the shop where phoning me explaining an apparent mixup (twice I asked and was assured that they would contact the makers of the amp and see what was going on) and the amp had been repaired by there own tech as they had diagnosed the fault themselves. (I was told the amp HAD to go back to the manufacturers to make sure nothing else was wrong with it) and that it was ready to be picked up.

Now I'm pissed off....really pissed off but need some one with a sane brain to explain what I should do to make myself feel better?

It's the lying that's really got me down...more than the sh*tty luthier work.There explanation of why it never ended up going to the manufacturers.....you'll love it. We never had a box to put it in.........

Sorry to vent on the forum but hey ho.....If they had done what they where telling me they where doing then the "Mix up" would have been sorted sooner and my lad would be recording with his amp.

I'll post photo's of the fret dress and set up later....no doubt that will also be another mixup.
[/quote]

That's how many shops seemed to work in my first 10 years or so of playing. Shoddy work and bullsh*t was the norm.

[molan]

Obviously the blatant lying isn't acceptable but, working now & then in a retailer, I know that handling warranty claims with some suppliers can be fraught with problems.

Some won't take stuff back until the dealer can 'authenticate' there actually is a problem (this isn't always as easy as it sounds). Others prefer you to use your own local repair man if possible to avoid high postage costs. Some just don't reply to either calls or emails for several days. Some insist that the customer delivers the item to the shop first and then that the shop sends it to the authorised repairer (adding incremental costs and time delays to the process).

All this can slow things down and cause lots of undue stress

As it happens I had to handle a warranty claim today and it's been, so far, a perfect case of how things should be done.

Customer emails shop to say there's a problem, shop contacts UK distributor (not the manufacturer because it's not UK made), distributor directs customer to online site where customer fills in all the relevant details and explains the problem. This then generates a returns shipping form and customer liaises with shipping company for the item to be collected at an acceptable time.

Whole process from start to finish took about 15-20 minutes

Just hoping it's a quick fix or that a brand new item is sent as a replacement if it's a major issue

Edited December 18, 2013 by molan

[martin8708]

I think 4000 has hit it on the head . In the pre- internet days of music shops , customers were treated as a minor inconvience to the shop staff daily ritual of showing off on the latest Ibanez Jem / snoozing behind the counter / crafty fag break out the back of the shop / boring everybody with tales of how their band almost got signed by a major label . ( Denmark Street the case in point )

I still prefer to support local business , but the availability of reasonable bass gear is limited to say the least . I have expressed interest in a few items in our local music shop , for example , a nice little 40 watt all valve bass amp with no price on it . I was told that they would phone me with the price , but of course there was no phone call . A second visit to the shop for a price on the amp was met with same shop assistant still none the wiser on the price .( not a difficult thing to ask for , the price of an item in a shop )

Shops are now competing with the internet , shops can up their game by providing better customer service than the faceless internet shops , people still like good customer service and dealing with humans .
Shop staff lying to customer's is business suicide , I would certainly let the owner / manager know I am unhappy with his poor standard of customer care , both the shoddy set up and poor handling of the amp does not instill any confidence in the OP's experience with the said shop .

Hope the issues are resolved soon
Martin .

[spinynorman]

If it's any consolation, I had a similar experience with a large UK online retailer, though in that case the amp eventually ended up back at the manufacturer with a completely wrong description of the problem.

Contrast service from Thomann under their universal 3 year warranty, amp picked up by courier, repaired and returned in 2 weeks, at no cost to me.

Edited December 20, 2013 by spinynorman

[leroydiamond]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1387554062' post='2313330']
If it's any consolation, I had a similar experience with a large UK online retailer, though in that case the amp eventually ended up back at the manufacturer with a completely wrong description of the problem.

Contrast service from Thomann under their universal 3 year warranty, amp picked up by courier, repaired and returned in 2 weeks, at no cost to me.
[/quote]

Thomann are really setting the benchmark for service. I have had a number of dealings with them and they are +1. However if we all go down the on line route, local stores will just fold (a good many here have already). Not a nice thought.

[SlipperySquid]

Hi again all!

Thought I'd hit you with an update!

So managed to go to the shop on my dinner break (really hate missing my lunch....so was not in the best of moods on arrival!).

Managed to take said poorly re-fret dressed guitar with me.

Now the shop assistant that I saw that day was more than apologetic about what had gone on, looked over the guitar and said he would like to send it back to the luthier to get a better job done.

I (as most of your good selves would) refused as I didn't want the said luthier anywhere near it. This went on for about ten minutes with me pointing out what was wrong and him trying to explain what happened. (the luthier would sooner leave a divet in the fret then have to file it down as he'd have to file all the others to compensate which could take a few years out of the life of the frets, to which I said, why not replace the fret?) As to the poor setup of the guitar etc he said that he probably hadn't done it as he was not told to. I showed him the receipt which showed all the work I wanted carrying out, poor chap didn't have an answer.

Anyway then I went on to say how I didn't expect to be lied to by the other assistant and that when a shop says it will call you back it should. He agreed.

Then the fun started when the owner of the shop appeared! Of course he was sticking up for his assistant as any good boss should, but unfortunately didn't have a clue what the problems where and just jumped in. He said that they had offered to send the guitar back what more did I want? I said that I didn't want the want the guitar to have to go away again nor did I want the luthier to work on it again. He then turned and walked off muttering a comment, then I lost my sh*t. Told him what I thought of his customer service,his attitude and what a great show for his employees and customers (there where a couple of people in the shop obviously embarrassed).

Anyway he stormed back ask me what I wanted, I said refund so I could take it to a competent luthier that would get the job done first time. He said give him it....and stormed off, not before I got his name and confirmed he was the owner.

He didn't seem to understand that I was pissed off and it was more my fault then there own? as they had offered a resolution.....but not my I say an apology.

At the end of it all, I have the amp back that works and the guitar will be going to another luthier in the new year to get a full refret and setup (no point messing about)

The assistant giving the refund said he totally understood where I was coming from and I apologised for having him in the middle of something that was not personally his fault.

Anyway, about 20 mins later I had the owner phoning me and apologising saying what he did was inexcusable. To little to late for me I'm afraid.

So anyone that visits the good old city of Hull, please remember to not visit Antone Guitars on Beverley Road. Nor should they talk to the owner "Tony" or believe anything the assistant "Phil" has to tell you as he's more interested in surfing the net. The other lad (can't remember his name) that tried to help me on the other hand is a good lad!

I really will be buying online from now on.

Sorry for the long post, Merry Christmas to all!

[discreet]

[quote name='SlipperySquid' timestamp='1387559035' post='2313401']
Sorry for the long post, Merry Christmas to all!
[/quote]

And to you. A cautionary tale, unfortunately. Considering that UK plc is now a service-industry business, we're really not very good at it, are we? Unforgivable, and not at all surprising people would rather buy online. Lets's hope this sort of shoddy customer service is on the way out.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Just to put the boot in ; you could let the manufacturers of the amp know the final exchange you had with shop.plus you could send Link to this thread to the manager of the shop. I hate bad customer service.

[Beedster]

[quote name='SlipperySquid' timestamp='1387559035' post='2313401']
Hi again all!

Thought I'd hit you with an update!

So managed to go to the shop on my dinner break (really hate missing my lunch....so was not in the best of moods on arrival!).

Managed to take said poorly re-fret dressed guitar with me.

Now the shop assistant that I saw that day was more than apologetic about what had gone on, looked over the guitar and said he would like to send it back to the luthier to get a better job done.

I (as most of your good selves would) refused as I didn't want the said luthier anywhere near it. This went on for about ten minutes with me pointing out what was wrong and him trying to explain what happened. (the luthier would sooner leave a divet in the fret then have to file it down as he'd have to file all the others to compensate which could take a few years out of the life of the frets, to which I said, why not replace the fret?) As to the poor setup of the guitar etc he said that he probably hadn't done it as he was not told to. I showed him the receipt which showed all the work I wanted carrying out, poor chap didn't have an answer.

Anyway then I went on to say how I didn't expect to be lied to by the other assistant and that when a shop says it will call you back it should. He agreed.

Then the fun started when the owner of the shop appeared! Of course he was sticking up for his assistant as any good boss should, but unfortunately didn't have a clue what the problems where and just jumped in. He said that they had offered to send the guitar back what more did I want? I said that I didn't want the want the guitar to have to go away again nor did I want the luthier to work on it again. He then turned and walked off muttering a comment, then I lost my sh*t. Told him what I thought of his customer service,his attitude and what a great show for his employees and customers (there where a couple of people in the shop obviously embarrassed).

Anyway he stormed back ask me what I wanted, I said refund so I could take it to a competent luthier that would get the job done first time. He said give him it....and stormed off, not before I got his name and confirmed he was the owner.

He didn't seem to understand that I was pissed off and it was more my fault then there own? as they had offered a resolution.....but not my I say an apology.

At the end of it all, I have the amp back that works and the guitar will be going to another luthier in the new year to get a full refret and setup (no point messing about)

The assistant giving the refund said he totally understood where I was coming from and I apologised for having him in the middle of something that was not personally his fault.

Anyway, about 20 mins later I had the owner phoning me and apologising saying what he did was inexcusable. To little to late for me I'm afraid.

So anyone that visits the good old city of Hull, please remember to not visit Antone Guitars on Beverley Road. Nor should they talk to the owner "Tony" or believe anything the assistant "Phil" has to tell you as he's more interested in surfing the net. The other lad (can't remember his name) that tried to help me on the other hand is a good lad!

I really will be buying online from now on.

Sorry for the long post, Merry Christmas to all!
[/quote]

Well done for getting the right outcome. Doesn't sound like the shop has long for this world anyway if that's how they operate.

The owner of a music shop ranted at me a few years back for having the audacity to buy an old bass on eBay and then bring it into his shop intending to pay for a decent checkover, setup and rewire (he didn't appear to understand that I wasn't interested in buying any of the £100-£150 instruments in the shop). He performed his rant on a Saturday morning about a week before Christmas and in full view of about 6 potential customers and their mums and dads, all of whom left sharpish. He went out of business a few weeks later.

[merello]

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1387312647' post='2310649']
I've encountered similar here. In this case it was the only repair shop for a good distance, in a small town with no other real competition locally. Bunch of deadbeat owners. Wrecked a Strat's wiring harness, fitted a dead switch to it, routed out the wiring cavity with a screwdriver and rock to make it fit, apparently sent a Zoom 606 back to Zoom to get fixed and it appeared a month later still broken, leveled the frets on an SG copy of mine using a bench stone, but never re-crowning the now-flat frets afterwards... bunch of chancing jakies. If you want to know who they are, especially if you live in the Scottish central belt, give me a PM.
[/quote]
Why pm? Get them named!

[mcnach]

[quote name='merello' timestamp='1387634607' post='2314016']
Why pm? Get them named!
[/quote]


+1

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='SlipperySquid' timestamp='1387559035' post='2313401']
Hi again all!

Thought I'd hit you with an update!

So managed to go to the shop on my dinner break (really hate missing my lunch....so was not in the best of moods on arrival!).

Managed to take said poorly re-fret dressed guitar with me.

Now the shop assistant that I saw that day was more than apologetic about what had gone on, looked over the guitar and said he would like to send it back to the luthier to get a better job done.

I (as most of your good selves would) refused as I didn't want the said luthier anywhere near it. This went on for about ten minutes with me pointing out what was wrong and him trying to explain what happened. (the luthier would sooner leave a divet in the fret then have to file it down as he'd have to file all the others to compensate which could take a few years out of the life of the frets, to which I said, why not replace the fret?) As to the poor setup of the guitar etc he said that he probably hadn't done it as he was not told to. I showed him the receipt which showed all the work I wanted carrying out, poor chap didn't have an answer.

Anyway then I went on to say how I didn't expect to be lied to by the other assistant and that when a shop says it will call you back it should. He agreed.

Then the fun started when the owner of the shop appeared! Of course he was sticking up for his assistant as any good boss should, but unfortunately didn't have a clue what the problems where and just jumped in. He said that they had offered to send the guitar back what more did I want? I said that I didn't want the want the guitar to have to go away again nor did I want the luthier to work on it again. He then turned and walked off muttering a comment, then I lost my sh*t. Told him what I thought of his customer service,his attitude and what a great show for his employees and customers (there where a couple of people in the shop obviously embarrassed).

Anyway he stormed back ask me what I wanted, I said refund so I could take it to a competent luthier that would get the job done first time. He said give him it....and stormed off, not before I got his name and confirmed he was the owner.

He didn't seem to understand that I was pissed off and it was more my fault then there own? as they had offered a resolution.....but not my I say an apology.

At the end of it all, I have the amp back that works and the guitar will be going to another luthier in the new year to get a full refret and setup (no point messing about)

The assistant giving the refund said he totally understood where I was coming from and I apologised for having him in the middle of something that was not personally his fault.

Anyway, about 20 mins later I had the owner phoning me and apologising saying what he did was inexcusable. To little to late for me I'm afraid.

So anyone that visits the good old city of Hull, please remember to not visit Antone Guitars on Beverley Road. Nor should they talk to the owner "Tony" or believe anything the assistant "Phil" has to tell you as he's more interested in surfing the net. The other lad (can't remember his name) that tried to help me on the other hand is a good lad!

I really will be buying online from now on.

Sorry for the long post, Merry Christmas to all!
[/quote]

That sounds really unfortunate, for you and the shop. You feel badly treated, and the shop has lost at least one (possibly more after this thread) customer. Firstly - The luthier should have carried out the work to a decent standard. I think since you didn't get what you paid for, it was only fair that you got a refund for it. Well done for standing your ground

On the amp - What I would have done (i work in a music shop) is phone the supplier and let them know that the amp they supplied to us, which we sold on to the customer, had developed a fault within the first 6 months of use. It's not good for the customer, and a quick resolution is all that's need. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, that didn't seem to happen for you. We could speculate all day on why it didn't happen, but the only thing that matters is that your son's amp wasn't fixed by the guys who built it, like you had hoped. What can you do? Well, if I was put in that position, I'd be asking them to send it back to the supplier, and either have a full service and repair done on it, or have a replacement sent out. You have a contract with the shop, which more or less means that it's their legal duty to stand over any product they sell you.

Just a little suggestion - maybe instead of avoiding the local high-street music shop scene altogether, maybe you could take your future business to another local music shop? The next one you go into might be the polar opposite of the last one your dealt with. Of course, it's entirely your choice

I think it's important for any local business to look after their customers. Unfortunately, some don't realise that until they've already dug their own grave.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1387490684' post='2312723']
I still prefer to support local business , but the availability of reasonable bass gear is limited to say the least . I have expressed interest in a few items in our local music shop , for example , a nice little 40 watt all valve bass amp with no price on it . I was told that they would phone me with the price , but of course there was no phone call . A second visit to the shop for a price on the amp was met with same shop assistant still none the wiser on the price .( not a difficult thing to ask for , the price of an item in a shop )
[/quote]

I find it very embarrassing when I don't know the price of an item. The first thing I do is try and find it in a catalogue, which gives the RRP, which might not be our exact price, but it gives you an idea. If it's not in the catalogue, I phone the shop owner. If both fail, I take the customer's number, and call them when I get a price, which probably involves getting in touch with the supplier. If the same customer was the come back, and ask again what the price was, I would be very ashamed not to have followed it up. But maybe that's just me

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1387750359' post='2315302']
Just a little suggestion - maybe instead of avoiding the local high-street music shop scene altogether, maybe you could take your future business to another local music shop? The next one you go into might be the polar opposite of the last one your dealt with. Of course, it's entirely your choice

[/quote]

Agreed - some shops are getting better now, although when I was younger this was what I would consider the normal behaviour for most music shops

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1387751141' post='2315321']
Agreed - some shops are getting better now, although when I was younger this was what I would consider the normal behaviour for most music shops
[/quote]

I have no knowledge of how music shops used to be. Old habit die hard, I suppose? Anyway - All I know is that in the shop I work in, we are there to serve the customer. The customer is number one. They aren't always right, but we are still nice to them and help them. Without our customers, we are nothing. It really pays any business to look after their customers. I find it a very easy concept to understand.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1387565146' post='2313508']
The owner of a music shop ranted at me a few years back for having the audacity to buy an old bass on eBay and then bring it into his shop intending to pay for a decent checkover, setup and rewire (he didn't appear to understand that I wasn't interested in buying any of the £100-£150 instruments in the shop). He performed his rant on a Saturday morning about a week before Christmas and in full view of about 6 potential customers and their mums and dads, all of whom left sharpish. He went out of business a few weeks later.
[/quote]

Not excusing his behaviour, but if he knew that his business was on the way out (which he must have done if it went a few weeks later), then his stress levels must have been Sky high when he ranted at you, and if that was the case then I feel for him. Then again he may have been a regular ranter, hence the business collapsing in the first place.

[Geek99]

Speaking from experience of court, get it all written down as it happens , noting dates and any costs incurred, while it's fresh in your head. You can expect a product to last at least a year and can reject the goods if they go wrong in the first six months . Record the visits on your phone as voice messages if you can

Give him a last chance to sort it out then start a court case. You will have notes, he will have no notes


The five year liability is more to do with safety, you cannot expect things to last forever

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1387751816' post='2315334']
All I know is that in the shop I work in, we are there to serve the customer. The customer is number one. They aren't always right, but we are still nice to them and help them. Without our customers, we are nothing. It really pays any business to look after their customers. I find it a very easy concept to understand.
[/quote]

You think it would be obvious that that is how a shop should be run wouldn't you? But it wasn't always that way. Although there have obviously always been good music shops, a large number of music shops I went in between the ages of 13-30ish when I left to go to the states had this attitude that they were really doing you a favour to let you in. A lot of those closed down and I am sure complained about the internet killing their business. The internet didn't kill their business, but if I am not expecting service, why bother go in a shop when I can get it cheaper.

I feel the shops we have now know this much better, and that is a really good thing.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1387799729' post='2315747']
The five year liability is more to do with safety, you cannot expect things to last forever
[/quote]
But you can expect an amp that costs several hundred £ to last more than a year & be fit for purpose. By law, this is "upto" 6 years (depending on the item).