ambient Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 You know I find it amazing that in this day and age, when we're in the middle of a recession and when you have the internet and can let thousands know about the poor service that we still have such shoddy service. There's another thread on here about poor service from custom build people, luthiers and pickups. I approached a guy last week and asked if he'd build a ramp for one of my basses. He replied sure no problem, wedge will be £10 ebony £20, plus postage. So I gave the exact dimensions and paid him by bank transfer, he said he'd post it the following day. Saturday, still no sign of it in the post so I sent him an email, to which he replied "sorry it totally slipped my mind, I'll get it posted today". This being 2 o'clock, even I know the post office would be closed. So I replied, can you post it special delivery on Monday please, so I get it before Christmas, I did pay £3.50 for the postage, and it is only a small bit of wood. No reply from him Saturday, so I emailed him again today, and no reply so far to that. I was gonna get 3 more made, but they won't be by him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1387802687' post='2315821'] But you can expect an amp that costs several hundred £ to last more than a year & be fit for purpose. By law, this is "upto" 6 years (depending on the item). [/quote] Sure but you can't expect it to be faultless for six years - there's a sliding scale of reasonableness If it electrocutes you then that's different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Wunjo's in Denmark St will only do setups etc, on guitars that they have actually sold to you. I was quite surprised by that! However, they did recommend luthiers in the area who would, so kudos the them for that. The grumpy place in Camden do, but they sent me on a wild goose chase to collect my bass that wasnt even ready! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 [quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1387804489' post='2315856'] Sure but you can't expect it to be faultless for six years - there's a sliding scale of reasonableness If it electrocutes you then that's different [/quote] If it had been a inherent fault in the item, then it's covered, if it's just broken through use, that's different. So long as it hasn't broken within an unreasonable time scale (6 months I think is a pretty quick time for an amp to fail). Squid - I hope you get it all sorted. It's a total bummer that your son can't use his lovely new amp to record with his band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Sure - I use 18 months a reasonable time frame for something to last IF it's a quality item. A trader has to be able to rely on a sale after a certain amount of time has passed If it's goes wrong in six months and you haven't been brutal with it then reject it in writing and be prepared to see them in court if the trader doesn't see the clear writing on the wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 [quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1387812421' post='2316009'] Sure - I use 18 months a reasonable time frame for something to last IF it's a quality item. A trader has to be able to rely on a sale after a certain amount of time has passed If it's goes wrong in six months and you haven't been brutal with it then reject it in writing and be prepared to see them in court if the trader doesn't see the clear writing on the wall [/quote] My Xbox failed after 3 years due to a "known" fault (single red light due to poor connection of graphics processor). I took it back & got a replacement as this wasn't fit for it's intended purpose. If it's a quality item I expect it to last at least 4 years. If it's a cheap item I would expect at least 18-24 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) The problem with music retail is that if isn't willing (as a whole, more so in the UK) to progress with times and understand the customer has a lot more power than the stores realise. We pay the salaries, we keep the stores going, and if we spend money, and the item isn't right, we deserve to have it put right. Think about when you spend say £300 on a designer coat on ASOS. They let you do what you want, so if it's not right for you or not as expected, you can send it back for free and get a refund. No attitude from a mardy musician. Edited December 23, 2013 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1387842873' post='2316477'] Think about when you spend say £300 on a designer coat on ASOS. They let you do what you want, so if it's not right for you or not as expected, you can send it back for free and get a refund. No attitude from a mardy musician. [/quote] I thought that was just a legal requirement as part of the distance selling regulations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 It is, but the OP was buying in person . It's entirely different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1387846149' post='2316509'] I thought that was just a legal requirement as part of the distance selling regulations? [/quote] Oh defintely, but music shops tend to be annoyed when you want to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1387797973' post='2315693'] Not excusing his behaviour, but if he knew that his business was on the way out (which he must have done if it went a few weeks later), then his stress levels must have been Sky high when he ranted at you, and if that was the case then I feel for him. Then again he may have been a regular ranter, hence the business collapsing in the first place. [/quote] A generous interpretation CB, I would have said - stress or no stress - "thanks for bringing your bass here to have the work done" and I might have been thinking as I said it "despite our extremely high prices for relatively simple jobs and despite the fact it takes our technician over a month to rewire a bass and despite the fact that even when he has the controls don't work properly and I have to ask him to sit down with the customer and let him explain how to do the job". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoham Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 [quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1387799729' post='2315747'] The five year liability is more to do with safety, you cannot expect things to last forever [/quote] The five (or six) year liability relates to contract law - specifically the statute of limitations. Goods should last a reasonable time taking in to account the cost and intended use. It wouldn't be reasonable to expect a loaf of bread to last more than a few days, but it's entirely reasonable to expect a £1000 amp to last for several years. Within the first six months, the burden of proof is on the retailer, who must prove the fault (or underlying cause) was not present at the time of supply. After six months, the burden of proof is on the purchaser. In most cases, the threat of legal action will be enough to motivate the retailer. Make sure you read up and know your legal rights and all the facts beforehand - and be prepared to see it through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1387912355' post='2317199'] A generous interpretation CB, I would have said - stress or no stress - "thanks for bringing your bass here to have the work done" and I might have been thinking as I said it "despite our extremely high prices for relatively simple jobs and despite the fact it takes our technician over a month to rewire a bass and despite the fact that even when he has the controls don't work properly and I have to ask him to sit down with the customer and let him explain how to do the job". [/quote] Well I've said and done few "off" things in my time (largely due to depression and stress - but not always), so try to give benefit of the doubt, or allow for what might be going on someone's life (or head) at the time, where possible. However he might just be a twat! PS: I still love the fact that Twat gets through the filter! Doesn't even recognise it as a word, let alone a rude one. Twat Twat Twat (just because I can)! Edited December 28, 2013 by Count Bassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I googled the definition of twat & it said "You. You are a...". Well they've let me on BC for this long, so it must be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutton Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I find it incredible that an amp or whatever can be out on the shop floor and no-one knows the price of it. Don't put it out unless you know the price. Find out the price. Take a note of the price. If you don't want potential buyers to see the price on the goods then surely you should know. For goodness sake we're talking about shops here. To sell things you need to know the price. If you don't know the price then you can't sell so you grind to a halt. It is perhaps not just the recession that has been the cause of the demise of many music shops in our towns and cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 [quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1388487217' post='2322472'] I find it incredible that an amp or whatever can be out on the shop floor and no-one knows the price of it. Don't put it out unless you know the price. Find out the price. Take a note of the price. If you don't want potential buyers to see the price on the goods then surely you should know. For goodness sake we're talking about shops here. To sell things you need to know the price. If you don't know the price then you can't sell so you grind to a halt. It is perhaps not just the recession that has been the cause of the demise of many music shops in our towns and cities. [/quote] Most shops have hundreds of lines of stock. You can't expect somebody to know the price of everything off hand, especially slow moving items. If somebody came in to the show when I'm working and asked the price of rosin - I wouldn't know, because it sells so slowly. If they asked the price of a set of Ernie Balls, I would know, because they sell quite well. The difference would be if the person in the shop said "I don't know the price" and didn't make any attempt to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutton Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1388487925' post='2322488'] Most shops have hundreds of lines of stock. You can't expect somebody to know the price of everything off hand, especially slow moving items. If somebody came in to the show when I'm working and asked the price of rosin - I wouldn't know, because it sells so slowly. If they asked the price of a set of Ernie Balls, I would know, because they sell quite well. The difference would be if the person in the shop said "I don't know the price" and didn't make any attempt to find out. [/quote] No sorry. I used to work in sports retail which also had hundreds of lines of stock. No goods went out on the floor unless they had a price on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 [quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1388488214' post='2322493'] No sorry. I used to work in sports retail which also had hundreds of lines of stock. No goods went out on the floor unless they had a price on them. [/quote] But you were talking about shop workers knowing the price, weren't you? Most of our stock has a price tag on it, I just don't know the price off-hand. I can usually give a pretty good ball park figure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutton Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1388488566' post='2322499'] But you were talking about shop workers knowing the price, weren't you? Most of our stock has a price tag on it, I just don't know the price off-hand. I can usually give a pretty good ball park figure though. [/quote] The point I was making was with reference to an earlier post where the shop assistant didn't know the price of an amp which was out on the shop floor. He then promised to email the customer with the price and didn't. The customer went back to the shop to further enquire and the shop assistant was still none the wiser because he hadn't bothered his arse to find out. The price should have either been on the amp or available at the time of enquiry. There is no excuse for this sort of shoddy retailing. Edited December 31, 2013 by Hutton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 [quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1388489465' post='2322511'] The point I was making was with reference to an earlier post where the shop assistant didn't know the price of an amp which was out on the shop floor. He then promised to email the customer with the price and didn't. The customer went back to the shop to further enquire and the shop assistant was still none the wiser because he hadn't bothered his arse to find out. The price should have either been on the amp or available at the time of enquiry. There is no excuse for this sort of shoddy retailing. [/quote] Oh right - I absolutely agree. That's why I said if it's not on the amp, the shop assistant should be finding out immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutton Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1388490107' post='2322520'] Oh right - I absolutely agree. That's why I said if it's not on the amp, the shop assistant should be finding out immediately. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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