Dave_the_bass Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It's been suggested further up thread, but glossed over, and it seems like the perfect solution if you follow this process. 1, purchase a suitable, amp modelling, di to place between existing pedal board and amp. 2, hire yourself some time in a local rehearsal room and plug the di in to the provided pa 3, spend a few hours getting the di to perfectly replicate your rig sound through the pa with a flat eq. 4, turn up to any gig knowing that all you need to do is plug the xlr cable that the engineer gives you in to your own di and send him a tone that he can tweek for room acoustics. 5, be safe in the knowledge that you can tweek volume and/or eq of your rig to take in to account "on stage weirdness (very technical term )" without drastically changing the sound your putting out to the pa Feel free to ignore or shoot me down in flames but this approach seems logical and less expensive to me. It shouldn't take as much time during changeovers either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Not meaning to be a kill joy, and I'm not attempting to offend anyone... the OP came in and asked the best way to do something with an idea of how to do it. a lot of us came back and pointed out that it possibly wasn't the best way and suggested other ways to get the same effect- most going the same way that Dave_the_bass just suggested... the OP wants to try the mic option.... maybe it's one of those things that you think of and then just have to try/do and the OP should just go for it. If he's not comfortable with how it works he can always come back and read some other suggestions of how to easily do what he's wanting to do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1389201291' post='2331300'] Not meaning to be a kill joy, and I'm not attempting to offend anyone... the OP came in and asked the best way to do something with an idea of how to do it. a lot of us came back and pointed out that it possibly wasn't the best way and suggested other ways to get the same effect- most going the same way that Dave_the_bass just suggested... the OP wants to try the mic option.... maybe it's one of those things that you think of and then just have to try/do and the OP should just go for it. If he's not comfortable with how it works he can always come back and read some other suggestions of how to easily do what he's wanting to do.... [/quote] With respect, and just sayin'... From post 2... [quote]...think something like this would work well?...[/quote] Replies have been mostly with this in mind, methinks..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389201727' post='2331310'] With respect, and just sayin'... From post 2... Replies have been mostly with this in mind, methinks..? [/quote] Yeah I think there have been some brilliant replies and some really good ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='Dave_the_bass' timestamp='1389200386' post='2331279'] It's been suggested further up thread, but glossed over, and it seems like the perfect solution if you follow this process. 1, purchase a suitable, amp modelling, di to place between existing pedal board and amp. 2, hire yourself some time in a local rehearsal room and plug the di in to the provided pa 3, spend a few hours getting the di to perfectly replicate your rig sound through the pa with a flat eq. 4, turn up to any gig knowing that all you need to do is plug the xlr cable that the engineer gives you in to your own di and send him a tone that he can tweek for room acoustics. 5, be safe in the knowledge that you can tweek volume and/or eq of your rig to take in to account "on stage weirdness (very technical term )" without drastically changing the sound your putting out to the pa Feel free to ignore or shoot me down in flames but this approach seems logical and less expensive to me. It shouldn't take as much time during changeovers either. [/quote] Or ... use a flat wide bandwidth speaker cab, use the amps EQ to emulate the sound of a "bass" speaker and assume the DI through PA will sound in the right ball park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1389220156' post='2331653'] Or ... use a flat wide bandwidth speaker cab, use the amps EQ to emulate the sound of a "bass" speaker and assume the DI through PA will sound in the right ball park. [/quote] That's basicly my approach on this, i always go to FOH no mather where my band is playing. I mounted my rig to be as flat (~ PA like) as i could and do all my sound tailoring on the bass and pedalboard. My amp (Thunderfunk) EQ is used only to compensate the room, the DI goes to FOH in PRE, the pedals are linked between the bass and the amp and they're all true bypass with clean blend control. When using the rack (F-1X+power amp) i want the F1X's EQ to stand out so i use the DI on POST. Doing things like this i find i can get from the PA a sound that's very close to the one i'm hearing from my backline but there will allways be diferences (even with the mic'ed guitar amps). If OP wants the sound he's hearing from his rig to go to FOH then he just needs to invest in a very high quality mic. I don't see the need to have a mixer on stage, if he's happy with the sound comming out of the cab i believe that a "very" good mic sending only that single channel to FOH will do the trick. If a clean bass signal is needed for any reason on the mix then simply run a clean DI box straight from the bass and link it to a second channel on the main mixer (they usually have a few extra channels on their mixers) and let the technician do the mix. If the OP shows up on stage with a mixer under his arm i don't think that will leave the technician very happy with him... and what will come next? The drummer remembers that he doesn't like the way they mix their drums so he also gets a desk to mix his drums the way he likes? FOH engineers are there for a reason and most of the time they know how to do their job, just talk to them first and figure out together the best way to achieve the desired result that makes everyone happy! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operative451 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 So to mildly hijack this thread a bit - IED are looking to do our first 'proper' gigs - we both have mostly virtual kit and like it that way! If i were to turn up with my 'rig' as is: a bunch of pedals (including a sansamp copy) and a DI box, would this make FOH engineers happy or sad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 [quote name='operative451' timestamp='1389614861' post='2336058'] So to mildly hijack this thread a bit - IED are looking to do our first 'proper' gigs - we both have mostly virtual kit and like it that way! If i were to turn up with my 'rig' as is: a bunch of pedals (including a sansamp copy) and a DI box, would this make FOH engineers happy or sad? [/quote] honestly they wnt mind, its a straight di to them andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) [quote name='operative451' timestamp='1389614861' post='2336058'] So to mildly hijack this thread a bit - IED are looking to do our first 'proper' gigs - we both have mostly virtual kit and like it that way! If i were to turn up with my 'rig' as is: a bunch of pedals (including a sansamp copy) and a DI box, would this make FOH engineers happy or sad? [/quote] yup what he said really you've just got to be careful that all your pedals are balanced pre gig. [b]to the OP[/b] running a mic and di signal into a little mixer would work and you would send the sound guy a complete signal of how you want it to sound however if it was me engineering the gig i would ask for them separately. the reason for this is that i might decide that theres a part of your sound the mix needs more of at a certain point for example if things are getting a bit muddy then i'd try using a bit of your clean(ish) signal to make you cut through a bit more and vice versa however if i'm being sent a pre mixed signal then i'm limited as to what i can do its more of a set it and leave it deal which is fine as its less work but means i can't get the best possible mix to make the band sound good my best option would be to purchase yourself a nice mic something like a 609 would be great and say to the house sound guy that you'd like to be mic'ed because it helps for your tone to carry across better and if he sets it up to about a 70/30 split on his desk (i think you mentioned that as about your sound earlier in the tread) then work from their this way it appears like you've done your homework you've made his life as easy a possible and he then has the facility to tweak as the room and the mix requires Edited January 13, 2014 by Chrismanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 [quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1389620760' post='2336161'] yup what he said really you've just got to be careful that all your pedals are balanced pre gig. [b]to the OP[/b] running a mic and di signal into a little mixer would work and you would send the sound guy a complete signal of how you want it to sound however if it was me engineering the gig i would ask for them separately. the reason for this is that i might decide that theres a part of your sound the mix needs more of at a certain point for example if things are getting a bit muddy then i'd try using a bit of your clean(ish) signal to make you cut through a bit more and vice versa however if i'm being sent a pre mixed signal then i'm limited as to what i can do its more of a set it and leave it deal which is fine as its less work but means i can't get the best possible mix to make the band sound good my best option would be to purchase yourself a nice mic something like a 609 would be great and say to the house sound guy that you'd like to be mic'ed because it helps for your tone to carry across better and if he sets it up to about a 70/30 split on his desk (i think you mentioned that as about your sound earlier in the tread) then work from their this way it appears like you've done your homework you've made his life as easy a possible and he then has the facility to tweak as the room and the mix requires [/quote] this is pretty much what i think im going to do, my worry is a sound guy saying theres no time and being a bit teasy at having to run a second cable or just ignoring the mic and just plugging in something but not using it. but its worth a try so im gonna grab a 609 in the next month or so, got some good quality xlr's so can just give them the cable and say heres my mic and plug there di in. andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) yeh it depends entirely upon the sound guy but running one extra channel takes exactly 2 seconds and if you've even given him a suggestion on how to mix it moving on from that would be to turn up with a lead and a stand so he has nothing to do this is what really frustrates me about other sound engineers and gives the rest of us who actually give a sh*t (yes there are a few of us about) a bad name Edited January 13, 2014 by Chrismanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 [quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1389622787' post='2336191'] yeh it depends entirely upon the sound guy but running one extra channel takes exactly 2 seconds and if you've even given him a suggestion on how to mix it moving on from that would be to turn up with a lead and a stand so he has nothing to do this is what really frustrates me about other sound engineers and gives the rest of us who actually give a sh*t (yes there are a few of us about) a bad name [/quote] yep that what im gonna do i think just say plug this in, and if i get the 609 i can hang over the front of my cab. indeed my plan is to do this but cause as little trouble for them as possible andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillento Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) The solution to any overdrive/DI related issue has been the same for me for years. The Tech21 VTBass (clean setting) as last filter on my pedal board is my weapon of choice. Any fuzz, overdrive or distortion you put before this has its unpeasant highs filtered by the VT and does sound great in the DI. I did multi channel live recordings made using this chain and, on the one hand a A-Designs REDDI, and the other hand an Aguilar TH500, TecAmp610 cab miked with a Heil PR40. Both signals sounded VERY close! I dont bother using the expensive PR40 anymore in a live setting. Edited January 27, 2014 by gillento Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 [quote name='gillento' timestamp='1389694747' post='2336910'] The solution to any overdrive/DI related issue has been the same for me for years. The Tech21 VTBass (clean setting) as last filter on my pedal board is my eapon of choice. Any fuzz, overdrive or distortion you put before this has its unpeasant highs filtered by the VT and does sound great in the DI. I hat multi channel live recordings made using this chain and , on the one hand a A-Designs REDDI, and the other hand an aguilar TH500, TecAmp610 cab miked with a Heil PR40. Both signals sounded VERY close! I dont bother using the expensive PR40 anymore in a live setting. [/quote] Get some of the drive from my head so thats no gd Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Just throwing in an extra idea along the Sansamp / Reddi route. It won't help with getting the sound from your Cab, but it's a really smart bit of kit that gives you total control of your own sound so you can spend ages tweaking your sound pre-gig and then plug into the DI and know the sound is going to be what you heard when you were setting it up. http://bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/LEHLE_BAss_IQ.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillento Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 As much as I LOVE my Basswitch, it won't give him any drive sound. Another attempt at helping: As you apparently rely on "your Orange sound", I'd suggest a splitter and a Tech21 Oxford pedal just in front of the DI. This way you could emulate your preamp sound and send it via a DI to the FOH. The splitted (pre Oxford) sound is being sent to your amp. IMHO, his is the closest you are going to get to a solution both the soundman and you can live with (and will sound decent/OK/great depending on the settings) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operative451 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Must admit, after reading this, i'll be going for OD/Amp pedal (joyo sansamp clone) into graphic EQ into my DI box, and that'll be my 'rig'... Light too..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) There also seems to be a little confusion about mics too, the sennheiser 602 and shure beta52 are NOT large diaphragm mics, the just have an extended low frequency response due to the electronics having a shifted high pass filter frequency. Diaphragm diameter does not correlate to frequency response. A shure beta98 isv a tiny mic. but has a huge low end when in close proximity to a sound source The Heil PR48 is large diaphragm dynamic kick/bass mic (and a good one too). Edited January 28, 2014 by roonjuice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 or there is this. http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-vb-101/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillento Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 [quote name='The Badderer' timestamp='1392506104' post='2369594'] or there is this. [url="http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-vb-101/"]http://www.two-notes...torpedo-vb-101/[/url] [/quote] in a pedal form: http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Two_Notes.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk8 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 what about using a Radial JDI from the parallel speaker out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 just thought ill pop a quick update on here, not been such a problem in recent months as normally now my 810 is the backline for the venue, however have played one show where i asked politely if he'd mind micing me instead of using the di (my board now has three fuzz pedals on it) and he was happy to do it, i believe it was a sm57 and it sounded pretty sweet i must say. all the new ep for my band was recorded purely of a mic in front of my 810 (an akg drum mic i believe) but when i play a bigger venue i will def ask for them to put a mic in front, to my ears it just sounds better, and also now that i have gone wireless i can hear the dif out front through foh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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