Fender Precision or a Musicman Stingray

[JTUK]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1388143781' post='2318802'] Check out the (sometimes hard to find) Stingray HH or HS. You can get very woody P bass tones from those neck pups. [/quote]

This is why I make a point of meaning the single humbucker jobbie as that is the trademark MM afaic.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='thebassist' timestamp='1388060779' post='2318156']
What do you prefer? I don't want to get onto the differences between the two basses, etc. I'm just after your preferences.
[/quote]
I've never played a Music Man, I've played lots of Precisions which are obviously therefore the winner.

[Dingus]

To contradict myself for a moment, and to play devil's advocate to some extent, if you are looking to add a bass to your collection that will compliment your Jazz Bass, a Stingray will provide more of a stark contrast and radical departure in terms of sound and feel than a Precision Bass. You can get at least some kind of approximation of the P Bass sound with a Jazz Bass by favouring the neck pickup to some extent or another, and the rich and complex midrange- emphasis of the overall tone is common to both Fender Basses.

On the other hand, the only thing that sounds like a Musicman Stingray is a Stingray ( or close facsimile thereof) . If you want something radically different to your Jazz , the Stingray will give you that.

What I would like to tell you to do is to buy a Stingray[i] and[/i] a Precision , then you really have got all the major food groups covered , but unfortunately last time I checked shops weren't giving them away free , or even at bargain prices. However, Stingrays do pop up on Basschat at very fair prices quite regularly ( as do the excellent post -2008 American Standard Precisions) - one went for not much over £500 recently, I think- so maybe you could buy both off Basschat and circumvent the need to make a big decision .

Edited December 27, 2013 by Dingus

[lojo]

Preference Only ?

Precision

No Ray

No Precision

[DGBass]

I owned and played a slab bodied pre-eb Stingray for about 25 years. For the last ten years of that time I also owned a P-Bass which I began playing more and more over time. Both were hefty chunks of wood, the P-Bass however was more comfortable to play and the thing about a Stingray is it sounds like a Stingray. The P-Bass sounds like a bass. I guess thats why I only own the P-Bass now. The stingray was less forgiving and suited the sound of the bands i played in back in the day. The P-Bass is a very simple instrument that can adapt to most styles. I think there is a good thread somewhere on the forum dedicated to the P-Bass. You pick it up plug it in and your ready to go. My preference out of the two is the P-Bass. Just to confuse matters I now own a Standard Jazz and haven't picked up the P-Bass since I got it! My P-Bass is a keeper though

[Highfox]

Follow up on this.. I took a Ray to practice last night (first time in ages normally it's the P) and the singer/guitarist asked if I could use it at the next gig "that bass sound will definitely wake people up" was what he said.
The P with flats might be a little mellow for his taste
I think the Rockier stuff we do the Ray fit's nicely and the more mellow blues style the P. I might have to toy with the un-cool idea of swapping basses mid set lol.
I like both but will give the Ray the nod next gig in January

[Roland Rock]

I had a 2EQ '80s 'Ray for four odd years. Lovely bass. The build quality and playability were superb. However, I happened to try out a '78P in a music shop one day, and loved it so much I went home and traded that 'Ray for it that day. Thirteen years on and no regrets.

[drTStingray]

Dee Murray played a G and L L1000 on the later Elton John stuff - a bright red one IIRC.

His new bass player also plays MM basses so Elton must be happy with the sound.

Did any of the Ray nays on this thread ever try flatwound on their Rays? Now there's a classy and very versatile combination.....

Edited December 28, 2013 by drTStingray

[Marvin]

I'd go for the P bass every day, just don't like anything about Stingrays.

[Grassie]

I have a precision and an ATK (which is very similar sounding to a Stingray). The P-bass works very well in some venues, while it can also sound a bit boomy in others. The ATK also sounds good when the P doesn't, so for me, it's all dependent on the venue I'm playing in.

[Jack]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, objectively, the EBMMs are better made than the Fenders. Now, some people such as Shuker, Valenti, Sadowsky et all will build you a P that will blow any Ray out of the water, but I'm assuming you mean a Fender P and generally speaking Fender's quality can be hit or miss.

But you didn't ask that, you asked what I preferred. Well I own 4 basses, 2 Rays and 2 Ps and they're different but brilliant. If I could only own one bass though it'd be my '03 MIA Precision. The Stingrays may technically be better instruments, but 'better' doesn't necessarily mean 'BETTER' now does it?

Edited December 28, 2013 by Jack

[flychris]

I think, no one is better that another.
Just a question of music style you play, and taste you have regarding sound of the bass in the band (and not alone)

But in fact, I think that you could cover any style with any bass in fact, the P , the J and the MM, could go everywhere.
I need all those three !

[Linus27]

I have mixed views on both basses and found it really depends on the style of music you play and how you play. My dream bass was always a Stingray. I was fortunate enough to get a 3EQ model with a record deal advance some 16 years ago and it was beautiful. However, I could never ever get it to sound any good. It was thin, twangy and had no bottom end or drive. I ended up touring and recording with a 77 Fender Precision which was amazing. I eventually sold the Stingray as I never even bothered to take it on tour as a back up as it sounded so weak.

For the last 13 years I have been playing a Fender Precision, either the 77 or a 2010 model. Both ace and both your typical Precision tone.

Move on to around 3 years ago and I wanted to get my dream bass back as the Stingray dream was not over. This time I got a 2EQ model and it could not be any more different than my 3EQ I previously owned. It sounds and plays amazing. Huge bottom end but with the ability to dial in many different tones from a full out driving Precision to a nasal sounding Jazz bass. It is simply amazing and I no longer own a Precision

If I am honest, if I was going to do driving guitar based music that will fill the bottom end then I would more than likely choose a Precision although I would give the Stingray a jolly good go. I do feel the Precision would fill the bottom end better though as the tone is more balanced across the spectrum where as the Stingray has more expression and articulation in its tone due to the pronounced mids and pickup placement. However, if I was playing something that has move movement and is less driving then I would choose the Stingray as I would want my bass notes to be heard rather than adding drive and filling the bottom end.

[Ma'Grass]

Precision or Stingray....good question.

As far as my experience goes, i have a stingray since 98, used it a lot in the early days but when around 2005 or something like that i remember i did get a jazz bass and after that a warwick 5er...
since then it didn't get much play....such a shame. And all the other basses got replaced with another Jazz bass.

In the meantime in the recent years i found myself looking after a Fender telecaster bass (from 68 which is essentially the 51 P bass reissue) and i also grabbed a bargain for an Ibanez blazer from 81 (it's one of the most perfect Precision Bass copies made in japan i've ever seen, they sound wicked). I also had a chinese P bass but that was gone quick.
I've tried several USA p's and i really like them (although not all of them) . I agree on the fact that they "sit" around the music very well. It's not a case that some of the best players used that bass. When you get the "right" model in your hands, you understand why it is so popular.

so what's wrong with the stingray?
Well, gotta say, after some years i didn't use it, when i got it out of the dusty case and played, i just loved the feel of the neck and the playability....it's a damn light bass too. Unplugged, I did rediscover my Musicman wow....loved it and appreciated every bit of its build. The problem came when i plugged back in and try to tweak the sound. Both in my room or playing situation couldn't get that tight bottom end you get from passive basses and tweaking the amp. I was upset and there you go, it went to sleep under the bed once again.
So more playing with the Jazz.

Then recently, again i felt i had to give another try on my musicman, so i changed the strings and put flats on it, seemed better, tried it live...still disappointing.
I was about to give up and i really wanted to sell it!
Then...all of a sudden (thank you talkbass) i have consulted some members of that forum and i've found the answer to all MM problems.......

CHANGE PREAMP.

That's when i got to find out all the differences with the "old and new" musicman company.
The stock preamp that comes with the bass, the 3 Eq, it's awful in my view. Bad bad bad idea they had there at the Ernie ball to swap that since 87. Probably many people here know that it was a 2 Eq system that came with the bass before that year.
And that's how you get the Ernie, Pre-Ernie and all that jazz...

At least, they didn't touch other important bits like the pickups. Those are always been the same design since the first stingray. There at Ernie Ball, They've contoured the body and added the plastic slot for the battery rather than using the screwdriver. Little "improvements" here and there that made the bass look and feel just more modern.

But regarding the EQ they put on it, they should be ashamed of selling the stingray at that price with that thing in it, it definitely ruins its sound.


anyway, i looked into aftermarket preamps (JE?) and once i swapped that rubbish with the new thing i gotta say....

you can't go wrong with the stingray after surgery.

They are built so well that when you find the right pup/pre combination so the sound you want is there, you will actually hardly touch other basses. In fact I am totally gonna use it tomorrow.

I am also selling my jazz bass for this reason (Look other thread)

The Stingray is a killer bass especially with the preamp swapped, it's gonna feel and sound right. Mine is finally not sitting under the bed anymore.



Regarding the P bass, well i love that too and if i Had the money i would get a 60s one, even with that one you can't go wrong.
I use the tele anyway, which has the same characteristics of the P, maybe just a little darker tones but i Love darker than brighter anyway so...


from my tiny point of view i just guess that if you are a working musician, you may not have many basses in your collection but these 3 (or at least 2 of them) kinda must be included in your weaponry

P bass
J bass
Stingray
and a good 5er or 6er for the crazy stuff!

[Highfox]

For me it was almost night and day in the sound form my first EB MM and my now Pre.EB...
The Pre-EB is much smoother and warmer in sound, that's been a fact for me and possibly why I like the Ray so much again.

[BassYerbouti]

I prefer my Precision for playing live and the Stingray for noodling around at home

[grayn]

After a very long time as a bassist, I only got my first Stingray, a few months ago.
I must admit i was nervous, taking to play with the band, wondering how it would sound, within the mix.
But straight away it sounded just great. The singer immediately said it was his favourite of all my basses.
I've owned 3 precisions, over the years. American, Jap and Lyte. All were good, solid instruments.
I've also owned a number of Fender guitars and a couple of MM guitars.
And as I've found, the MM are just better instruments. Real, pro quality gear.

So it's a Stingray for me, please.

[thebassist]

3 band EQ or 2 band EQ?

[Ma'Grass]

If you have to get a stock one get the classic 2 eq version.
Those are the basses with the real stingray sound.

Dump the 3 eq, it's there just to confuse you.

[Dingus]

There are , apparently, all kinds of complications and unwanted interactions that can be caused by introducing a midrange frequency to a two- band bass and treble EQ preamp . That's why Roger Sadowsky refuses to offer a three band E.Q on Sadowsky basses. On the Stingray, EBMM first introduced the three band as an extra -cost option and eventually made it standard . The midrange control was, however, a bit of an afterthought when they should have in fact redesigned the entire circuit if they wanted to make it three band , and a lot of aficionados have commented, just as the previous poster has done, on how it messes up the basic sound of that preamp.

I personally don't think the three band EBMM Stingray sounds that terrible in itself , but it definitely does sound significantly different to the classic two-band preamp , even with the mid control set flat. By comparison , the preamp specifically designed for the Bongo with dual- frequency midrange controls sounds fantastic. It's also worth mentioning that one minor but potentially significant difference with the two band Ray is that there is no centre detent on the EQ controls, you just have guess where 0 is, so that can in itself lead to those basses sounding different in use.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Dingus

[drTStingray]

I agree with you Dingus that the lack of a centre detent on the 2 band Ray tends to make it more a case of starting from full boost and cutting back to get your sound, whereas with the 3 band the tendency is to start at centre detent.

I would like to dispel the myth about the 3 band EQ - I have both versions and whilst the 2 band makes lovely sounds the 3 band is a lot more flexible, especially if you're playing in a room with strange acoustics and without PA assistance for the bass.

I've used the 2 band and 3 bands in the same gig and the 3 band has a lot more mid presence. However with bass and treble slightly boosted, and mids slightly cut on the 3 band, and the 2 band with both bands boosted above centre, I would defy anyone to distinguish the difference between the 2 and 3 band sounds.

The 3 band can excel at getting a more modern type sound as well, and as I said, control of those mids on the fly can be very helpful - my fretless is 3 band and I find it invaluable to be able to tweak mids for some songs.

[MattM]

'Ray for me all day long. Just an immediate, highly versatile sound and great look. Don't mind Ps, have owned an MIM in my time, and love the look of white and black ones with maple (JJB, Paul Simonon stylee) but find them a wee bit too restrictive and one dimensional sound wise. I'd have 2EQ flavour by choice, as I like the simplicity, but a 3EQ is great for tweaking mids when needed, had this on an old fretless Ray of mine and loved it.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1388508146' post='2322846']
There are , apparently, all kinds of complications and unwanted interactions that can be caused by introducing a midrange frequency to a two- band bass and treble EQ preamp . That's why Roger Sadowsky refuses to offer a three band E.Q on Sadowsky basses. On the Stingray, EBMM first introduced the three band as an extra -cost option and eventually made it standard . The midrange control was, however, a bit of an afterthought when they should have in fact redesigned the entire circuit if they wanted to make it three band , and a lot of aficionados have commented, just as the previous poster has done, on how it messes up the basic sound of that preamp.

I personally don't think the three band EBMM Stingray sounds that terrible in itself , but it definitely does sound significantly different to the classic two-band preamp , even with the mid control set flat. By comparison , the preamp specifically designed for the Bongo with dual- frequency midrange controls sounds fantastic. It's also worth mentioning that one minor but potentially significant difference with the two band Ray is that there is no centre detent on the EQ controls, you just have guess where 0 is, so that can in itself lead to those basses sounding different in use.
[/quote]


I love the John East preamp. It is a 2EQ (based on John's own '76 Stingray), with an added midsweep module (that does nothing when at neutral position). It means two stacked knobs, but it does not detract much from the classic look, I think.

[spacey]

Lots of basses can scoop tones to create pleasent sounds, but when the band is playing, how much is heard in the mix of that super scopped tone.
Very little is the answer, how much makes it out front through it is a better aim.
With a precision, the tone is full on, unscooped like jazz basses and all of it appears to make it out, you can always here a precision in the band mix, plenty of bass, heavy mids and clean top.
As live basses go, they are probally the ultmiate for gigging if you want to be heard.
Dozens of basses sound better at home or playing solo, but there is a very good reason precisions are a stable gigging bass and that is they have the full fat, full on in your face tone.

[Dingus]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1388520402' post='2323111']
I agree with you Dingus that the lack of a centre detent on the 2 band Ray tends to make it more a case of starting from full boost and cutting back to get your sound, whereas with the 3 band the tendency is to start at centre detent.

I would like to dispel the myth about the 3 band EQ - I have both versions and whilst the 2 band makes lovely sounds the 3 band is a lot more flexible, especially if you're playing in a room with strange acoustics and without PA assistance for the bass.

I've used the 2 band and 3 bands in the same gig and the 3 band has a lot more mid presence. However with bass and treble slightly boosted, and mids slightly cut on the 3 band, and the 2 band with both bands boosted above centre, I would defy anyone to distinguish the difference between the 2 and 3 band sounds.

The 3 band can excel at getting a more modern type sound as well, and as I said, control of those mids on the fly can be very helpful - my fretless is 3 band and I find it invaluable to be able to tweak mids for some songs.
[/quote]


I totally agree with you, dr T, that the three band EQ and an EBMM Stingray can be very useful and I have no particular prejudice against it myself, but then again I am not a Stingray- purist ( or actually even a Stingray owner) . The sonic compromises that result from introducing a midrange control to a two band EQ are by no means exclusive to Stingrays either, I hasten to add. I personally find midrange controls useful to an extent, but I am always cautious and use them sparingly .Even on active basses, I tend to favour the flat sound as much as possible. I am not dismissive of the three band Stingray by any means , but most folks would agree that in use there is a discernible difference between that bass and the traditional two band version