Why put flats on a fancy bass?

[thisnameistaken]

You know you'll only get a limited sound from flatwound strings, so why not just put them on a cheap passive bass instead of a vintage P?

Here's my thing: I've got a Korean Squier Jazz that I put LaBella 760FLs on, and replaced the tone pot with a push/pull that will put it in series (and replaced the tone cap with a .1uF so it'll do reggae), but yeah, with the tone wide open it's got a genuinely perfect soul tone, can't imagine anything ever sounding any better, and so I wonder: Why does anybody spend so much to get that sound?

[warwickhunt]

'[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]limited sound'...really! [/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]As to why would you fit them to a higher quality bass; If they sound great on a cheapy bass, imagine how much better they'd be on a good/active bass! [/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]In (semi)seriousness... flats will only sound as good as your fingers or as good as your amplification. [/size][/font][/color]

[ambient]

Why not ?

I had my Yamaha TRB strung with D'addario half wounds recently, not exactly flats I know, but more flat than round . I had a great sound from it, different to the same strings on my Mayones.

Steve Lawson uses flats on his Modulus fretless.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1388193876' post='2319450']
different to the same strings on my Mayones.

Steve Lawson uses flats on his Modulus fretless.
[/quote]

OK, well I wouldn't buy a Mayones or a Modulus so we have a basis for this discussion!

I always assumed by using flats you're actively rejecting a broad selection of otherwise common bass guitar frequencies. Why would you buy a 'hi-fi' bass and string it with flatwounds?

Does it do something special to a hi-fi bass? Do you get a special sound that doesn't happen with the common vintage bass guitar designs?

[gjones]

I sneaked a quick shot of an Alembic owned by Pete Agnew (Nazereth's bass player), that he'd left in the recording studio overnight. Not only was there flatwounds on it but he played it with a pick. I hope he was given it for free by his record company.

Here he is with the very bass [url="http://www.drjazz.ch/album/bilder/PeteAgnew-6813.jpg"]http://www.drjazz.ch...eAgnew-6813.jpg[/url]

Edit: by the way I do like Nazareth, it's just I think the sound he gets (a good rock tone like Phil Lynott's) with the Alembic, could be obtained just as well with a Fender or Squier P (John McVie used to play an Alembic. Last time I saw him he was playing a Precision).

In fact this might be it [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alembic-Series-one-bass-1976-John-McVie-Fleetwood-Mac-/171151568316?pt=Guitar&hash=item27d96dadbc"]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alembic-Series-one-bass-1976-John-McVie-Fleetwood-Mac-/171151568316?pt=Guitar&hash=item27d96dadbc[/url]

Edited December 30, 2013 by gjones

[ambient]

Don't forget there are flats and flats .

Not all flat wounds are just 'thump', TI's are quite bright sounding and articulate. The D'addario half wounds whilst being a lot more flat than round, have a really nice sound to them. On my TRB, when played high up the neck they sound almost like a classical guitar. John Patitucci uses them.

[White Cloud]

I'm really not sure why anyone would fit flats to any bass....they don't do it for me.

[6v6]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1388198551' post='2319468']
I sneaked a quick shot of an Alembic owned by Pete Agnew (Nazereth's bass player), that he'd left in the recording studio overnight. Not only was there flatwounds on it but he played it with a pick. I hope he was given it for free by his record company.

Here he is with the very bass [url="http://www.drjazz.ch/album/bilder/PeteAgnew-6813.jpg"]http://www.drjazz.ch...eAgnew-6813.jpg[/url]

Edit: by the way I do like Nazareth, it's just I think the sound he gets (a good rock tone like Phil Lynott's) with the Alembic, could be obtained just as well with a Fender or Squier P.
[/quote]

I don't get this at all, seriously, who cares who paid for it, if it has flats, or if he uses a pick?!

If someone has a bass which inspires them for whatever reason, whatever it costs (sound/looks/feel/whatever) then fair play to them IMO, and your implication that those using flats (and a *pick*, *gasp*!) should only use a cheap bass is insulting, particularly when directed at an established pro who has more justification for using high end equipment than most of us around here.

Back on topic, the main reason to put flats on a nice bass is that nice basses are easier to play, have better resonance and pickups leading to better tone, feel, and inspiration to play better (regardless of string type IMO).

[White Cloud]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1388198551' post='2319468']
it's just I think the sound he gets (a good rock tone like Phil Lynott's) with the Alembic, could be obtained just as well with a Fender or Squier P.
[/quote]
Having owned loads of Fenders and a couple of Alembics...there is no comparison imo when it comes down to sheer playing experience.

Fender = Mondeo
Alembic = Ferrari

Edited December 28, 2013 by White Cloud

[Roland Rock]

.... Back on topic....

I had flats on my 'Ray and always have them on my P. Why? Because they feel great and have a sound that rounds can't quite capture.
So why not put them on cheaper basses? Simple, I love playing the ones I have.

Also, I think that when it comes to five string basses, it's really difficult to get a good sounding B string on the budget end of the market. This may be largely irrelevant though, as I suspect that most people with five string basses will use rounds.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Roland Rock

[wateroftyne]

'Limited'... dear me.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1388218505' post='2319506']
.... Back on topic....

I had flats on my 'Ray and always have them on my P. Why? Because they feel great and have a sound that rounds can't quite capture.
[/quote]
I had flats on my P and my Jazz basses, but really disliked the feel and felt they couldn't capture a sound that rounds could!

Flats have become extremely fashionable lately though.

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1388219110' post='2319511']

I had flats on my P and my Jazz basses, but really disliked the feel and felt they couldn't capture a sound that rounds could!
[/quote]

Obviously the feel thing is subjective, but I agree about rounds having a sound that flats can't capture, which is the reason I have them on another bass. The reason that I didn't mention it is that I was trying to answer the OP's question.

[skydivepaul]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1388198551' post='2319468']
I sneaked a quick shot of an Alembic owned by Pete Agnew (Nazereth's bass player), that he'd left in the recording studio overnight. Not only was there flatwounds on it but he played it with a pick. I hope he was given it for free by his record company.

Here he is with the very bass [url="http://www.drjazz.ch/album/bilder/PeteAgnew-6813.jpg"]http://www.drjazz.ch...eAgnew-6813.jpg[/url]

Edit: by the way I do like Nazareth, it's just I think the sound he gets (a good rock tone like Phil Lynott's) with the Alembic, could be obtained just as well with a Fender or Squier P.
[/quote]

I grew up listening to Nazareth they are why I got into rock music.
The good thing with Nazareth compared to some other rock / metal bands is that the bass sound is very prevalent in their songs, good bluesy rock sound.
If flatwounds and an expensive bass work for Pete Agnew then good for him.

bass guitars, string types and amplifiers are all very subjective. A bit like art
What one person likes another person hates.

I had a Peavey T40 with TI flats on (bought from a fellow bass chatter) it sounded great, the flats also made a big heavy bass easier to use.

A lot of trial and error goes into getting the right sound and feel that is right for you. What works for you may not work for someone else.
All you can do is try out as many guitars and string types and amplifiers as you can before you decide what works and sounds best for you.

Thats what I tell the missus anyway when I bring home new guitars / strings / amps / straps etc etc

[Paul S]

I have just about finished changing all my basses from rounds to flats as I much prefer the sound. If you don't like them, don't fit them! Horses for courses.

[Kev]

Putting aside the differences and apparant 'Limited'ness of flatwounds, surely the quality and playability of a bass is just as important as the tone? Generally speaking, a £3k Sadowsky P will feel a whole lot better to play than a £100 Chinese P copy.

[Lozz196]

I like the sound of flats, but hate the feel. So I do the next best thing, keep rounds on the bass for as long as possible - my current set on my 2011 Precision have been there for 11 months now and sound better - to me - every time I play them.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388193304' post='2319444']
You know you'll only get a limited sound from flatwound strings, so why not just put them on a cheap passive bass instead of a vintage P?
[/quote]
I feel almost exactly the opposite. Stick a new set of stainless steel rounds on a bass and it'll sound just like a new set of stainless steel rounds! Without those bright upper harmonics grinding away over the top I think flatwounds are actually more revealing of certain aspects of the basses sound.

[Dad3353]

Rotosound Tru-Bass 88. Now [i]there's[/i] a string..! They last, not days, nor weeks, but generations (finger-style, of course; no-one uses a pick on bass, surely..? ). Round..? No. Flat..? No. [i]Smooth..![/i] Real bass tone. Best on Hofner Verithin, but available for lesser basses, if one really must. Strings for snobs..? Nah..!

Mmm..! Black Nylon..!
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:150404]

Edited December 28, 2013 by Dad3353

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388198392' post='2319467']
Why would you buy a 'hi-fi' bass and string it with flatwounds?

[/quote]

I'm not entirely sure where I would find a 'lo-fi' bass ... all my basses seem to manage to reproduce my playing with very high fidelity.

[Conan]

Flats limited? Apart from sounding like a student lettings agency, I kind of agree. But all strings are limited in certain ways! You certainly won't get that clangy zing that you get with new rounds (which I personally like, but others hate!). On the other hand, you can't really get the "flats sound" from rounds.... If I was a bit more computer-savvy I would produce some sort of Venn diagram (like Skank does)...

Flats with a pick? I have only twp words to say to that.

Herbie Flowers!

[Conan]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388193304' post='2319444']
Why does anybody spend so much to get that sound?
[/quote]

For you as the player, it's not just about sound though, is it? The feel of an instrument can make a huge difference to the way you play. Why "slum it" with a cheap bass if you already have a decent one, but fancy trying some different strings?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFBSvie8ASY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFBSvie8ASY[/url]

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1388227944' post='2319614']
Flats with a pick? I have only twp words to say to that.

Herbie Flowers!
[/quote]

Hmm, kind of an interesting example, since he seems as happy gigging with a Squier Affinity as with his much coveted early Jazz. Though he's actually a TruBass 88 player, which will get Dad3353 dribbling again!

[drTStingray]

I have flats on my Classic Ray. They sound great and when combined with the significant changes in sound you get plucking over the neck joint, rolling on the mutes and then EQ setting they're pretty versatile and give tons of thump.

Amazingly you can get a great mid 70s slap sound with them - the only way I've ever been able to make my popping sound like Bernard Edwards on We Are Family.

Someone told me Rays came with flats new until 1978 which may explain this!

I have the best of both worlds - a Ray with flats and another with rounds. I have also heard of owners of MM Bongos going weak at the knees at the sound of flats on them.

The thing is a bass with a powerful EQ will give great variety even with flatwounds - but in my experience more thump!

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1388217974' post='2319502']
Having owned loads of Fenders and a couple of Alembics...there is no comparison imo when it comes down to sheer playing experience.

Fender = Mondeo
Alembic = Ferrari
[/quote]
Only using a car for getting from my house down a bumpy old road and on to my local town to park in a multi-storey car park i'd go for the Mondeo over a Ferrari every time. Much more versatile. Maybe it's the same with basses to some people.