Why put flats on a fancy bass?

[thisnameistaken]

Examples?

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388437593' post='2322060']
I've got one bass I keep strung with flats for when I want that sound, it's just it's a pretty primitive sort of sound isn't it, so you don't need an expensive bass to get it.
[/quote]
Just like any other strings then.

[molan]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388440943' post='2322117']
Examples?
[/quote]

I have flats on a £6.5K Ritter Cora at the moment. I can assure you it sounds absolutely nothing like a cheap P bass.

The closest direct comparison I currently have is a Lull P that has flats on. Both have TI flats and sound very, very different to each other.

The Lull works particularly well with flats and responds to even small adjustments in the simple passive tone control.

The full active circuit on the Ritter gives loads of different tonal options and sounds completely different to my other Ritter that's string with rounds.

If anything I can often get even great tonal variation with flats than with rounds on the Ritters. Flats seem to respond really well to the active pre-amp on these.

I don't have anything cheaper than the Lull to compare with at the moment. Maybe on really low cost basses it's harder to hear the differences between string types and brands

[Grangur]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388438551' post='2322082']


Oh sure. I paid £100 for the Jazz I've strung with flats, and I paid under £200 for the P bass I've got strung with rounds.
[/quote]
What's the best quality bass you have ever put flats on?

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388193304' post='2319444']
You know you'll only get a limited sound from flatwound strings, so why not just put them on a cheap passive bass instead of a vintage P?

Here's my thing: I've got a Korean Squier Jazz that I put LaBella 760FLs on, and replaced the tone pot with a push/pull that will put it in series (and replaced the tone cap with a .1uF so it'll do reggae), but yeah, with the tone wide open it's got a genuinely perfect soul tone, can't imagine anything ever sounding any better, and so I wonder: Why does anybody spend so much to get that sound?
[/quote]
BTW, what's a 'genuinely perfect soul tone'?

It may be best to actually explain before continuing.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1388218505' post='2319506']
.... Back on topic..

Also, I think that when it comes to five string basses, it's really difficult to get a good sounding B string on the budget end of the market. This may be largely irrelevant though, as I suspect that most people with five string basses will use rounds.
[/quote]

It isn't easy to get a good B out of a LOT of basses ...IMO... so not just at the cheaper end of the market.
The last thing you want on a B st is a thump upto the 7th fret... it should sound balanced to the E and A...
and that really isn't easy to achieve and plenty of name basses don't/can't..
If you can't slap on the B... it isn't clean enough a sound...and it doesn't matter if slapping isn't your thing,
it is the ability of the B string to resonate cleanly...

All strings go off in terms of fatigue, IME..... so I don't get the idea of any string on a bass for 5 yrs.
Sound notwithstanding.... the string will be shot and feel terrible to me

The main thing that retires a string is when the life goes out of it...
You may be able to refresh that to a degree with cleaning, but a lot of strings will not clean many times now.

I am not sure the metal quality is there anymore in many brands either.
Understandably, string companies might not like the idea of cleaning strings.

Just my 2p..

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1388448818' post='2322223']


It isn't easy to get a good B out of a LOT of basses ...IMO... so not just at the cheaper end of the market.
The last thing you want on a B st is a thump upto the 7th fret... it should sound balanced to the E and A...
and that really isn't easy to achieve and plenty of name basses don't/can't..
If you can't slap on the B... it isn't clean enough a sound...and it doesn't matter if slapping isn't your thing,
it is the ability of the B string to resonate cleanly...

All strings go off in terms of fatigue, IME..... so I don't get the idea of any string on a bass for 5 yrs.
Sound notwithstanding.... the string will be shot and feel terrible to me

The main thing that retires a string is when the life goes out of it...
You may be able to refresh that to a degree with cleaning, but a lot of strings will not clean many times now.

I am not sure the metal quality is there anymore in many brands either.
Understandably, string companies might not like the idea of cleaning strings.

Just my 2p..
[/quote]

I think your full stop key might be sticking

[BetaFunk]

I'm probably not alone in finding this thread amusing.

I read that Ron Wickersham the founder of Alembic that when he developed the Alembic bass electronics he did them n conjunction with flatwound strings. He obviously thought flatwounds were o.k. to put on an expensive bass.

BTW Didn't the first Alembic bass that was made for Jack Casady cost something like $4,000 in 1972?

As i said, a most amusing thread.

Edited January 1, 2014 by BetaFunk

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1388601437' post='2323912']I'm probably not alone in finding this thread amusing.[/quote]

You're right, it seems Molan thinks it's hilarious. I sometimes wish I was so easily amused.

[Beedster]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388605517' post='2323983']
You're right, it seems Molan thinks it's hilarious. I sometimes wish I was so easily amused.
[/quote]

I think it's a logical assumption (flats being a WOT on a decent bass) until you try it. I was, to say the least, really surprised when I heard them on my Flea.

Flats appear to sit in a rather retro/tame/vintage place on BC, I've heard that they're harder to play, that you can't play slap on them, that they don't work on active basses, and that they have no highs, all of which are wrong. The range of character, tone, frequency response, gauge, and tension of flats means that you probably can't generalise about them as a category anyway.

In short, it was an understandable attitude

Edited January 1, 2014 by Beedster

[Mornats]

I've never tried flats before but I have an Overwater (made by Tanglewood) active J that currently has Rotosound Nexus coated strings on. I don't like them as they sound a bit artificial and the feel just isn't right. It's a black bass and the coating is black so it looks the part but I find I'm not playing the bass as much as the sound is a bit "meh".

I'll let you know how I get on with the flats. The Overwater can do a decent vintage sound when rolled onto the front pup and the back pup has a jazz tone to die for. I'm looking forward to trying some flats

[skej21]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1388605926' post='2323993']


I think it's a logical assumption (flats being a WOT on a decent bass) until you try it. I was, to say the least, really surprised when I heard them on my Flea.

Flats appear to sit in a rather retro/tame/vintage place on BC, I've heard that they're harder to play, that you can't play slap on them, that they don't work on active basses, and that they have no highs, all of which are wrong. The range of character, tone, frequency response, gauge, and tension of flats means that you probably can't generalise about them as a category anyway.

In short, it was an understandable attitude
[/quote]

BIG plus 1!

Also, does it really matter how great/sh!te flats sound on someone else's expensive bass?

I like the sound of flats on my bass and that's all that matters. I'd never tell Molan/anyone that flats shouldn't be on his bass or suggest its a waste of his time, it's just pathetic (and mostly not based on any actual firsthand experience!)

[molan]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388605517' post='2323983']


You're right, it seems Molan thinks it's hilarious. I sometimes wish I was so easily amused.
[/quote]

Why do I find it hilarious?

I don't think there's anything particularly funny about it at all - maybe I'm missing the really humorous stuff somewhere.

I guess the only thing that is most obviously funny could be that someone thinks flatwound strings are some kind of magical leveller that make all instruments sound identical. I guess most people would have a quiet chuckle at that

[molan]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388605517' post='2323983']


You're right, it seems Molan thinks it's hilarious. I sometimes wish I was so easily amused.
[/quote]

Although I hadn't found that much to smile about I did spot a comment in another thread that did make me smile

"Just put Flats on it then it will sound the same as an exotic boutique bass with Flats costing many thousands of pounds.

P.S. That sounds like it should be in Viz 'Handy Hints' now i come to think of it.

Changes voice to very posh and serious....... "hey! Johnny Bass Player! Fed up that you can't afford a very expensive boutique bass guitar with quilted maple top? Then you need Wizzo Flatwound Strings. They will make your 1965 Top Twenty bass guitar that your Granny bought you for Christmas in 1965 sound just like a £5,000 custom bass guitar"

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1388610104' post='2324063']
Although I hadn't found that much to smile about I did spot a comment in another thread that did make me smile

"Just put Flats on it then it will sound the same as an exotic boutique bass with Flats costing many thousands of pounds.

P.S. That sounds like it should be in Viz 'Handy Hints' now i come to think of it.

Changes voice to very posh and serious....... "hey! Johnny Bass Player! Fed up that you can't afford a very expensive boutique bass guitar with quilted maple top? Then you need Wizzo Flatwound Strings. They will make your 1965 Top Twenty bass guitar that your Granny bought you for Christmas in 1965 sound just like a £5,000 custom bass guitar"
[/quote]
I have to own up to that one molan. I thought you might like it. I just couldn't resist.

[molan]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1388610528' post='2324071']

I have to own up to that one molan. I thought you might like it. I just couldn't resist.
[/quote]

And there was me trying to keep it anonymous

Still making me chuckle though. . .

[molan]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1388608080' post='2324023']


BIG plus 1!

Also, does it really matter how great/sh!te flats sound on someone else's expensive bass?

I like the sound of flats on my bass and that's all that matters. I'd never tell Molan/anyone that flats shouldn't be on his bass or suggest its a waste of his time, it's just pathetic (and mostly not based on any actual firsthand experience!)
[/quote]

To be fair I don't think anyone has said I shouldn't fit flats to an expensive bass.

I think the core 'thrust' of this thread is the old favourite 'spending any more than £200 on a bass is a waste of money because my bass sounds perfect and that's all I spent'.

It comes up again and again, often with a slightly different slant, but that's generally the gist of it. . .

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1388611020' post='2324077']
And there was me trying to keep it anonymous

Still making me chuckle though. . .
[/quote]
I thank you!

[BetaFunk]

I want an Alembic Series 1 now...................just so i can put flats on it.

[skej21]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1388611293' post='2324083']


To be fair I don't think anyone has said I shouldn't fit flats to an expensive bass.

I think the core 'thrust' of this thread is the old favourite 'spending any more than £200 on a bass is a waste of money because my bass sounds perfect and that's all I spent'.

It comes up again and again, often with a slightly different slant, but that's generally the gist of it. . .
[/quote]

Nobody has said it but the title hints that it's a negative thing to put flats on an expensive bass, presumably due to your 'great leveller' theory and how fitting them will somehow make the expensive bass sound like a £200 bass with the same strings.

[molan]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1388612501' post='2324111']


Nobody has said it but the title hints that it's a negative thing to put flats on an expensive bass, presumably due to your 'great leveller' theory and how fitting them will somehow make the expensive bass sound like a £200 bass with the same strings.
[/quote]

You may well be right - I'm off to fit some super bright steels on all my basses right now

[Linus27]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1388217301' post='2319498']
I'm really not sure why anyone would fit flats to any bass....they don't do it for me.
[/quote]

I am of this general opinion until I played Old Horse Murphy's Tony Franklin fretless which had flats. It sounded amazing.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1388608634' post='2324033']I guess the only thing that is most obviously funny could be that someone thinks flatwound strings are some kind of magical leveller that make all instruments sound identical. I guess most people would have a quiet chuckle at that [/quote]

I'm not enormously surprised that you turned up and behaved like I'd just molested your gran because you've always made a great show of how expensive your gear is and you're often plugging your boutique gear retail operation. Even to the point of defending that monstrosity that Jimmy Coppolo managed to sell to some mug for a small fortune.

So that's fine, you've got your angle and I'm well aware of it. You've got Foderas to sell after all, and so anyone who challenges the need for a guitar that costs more than most peoples' cars must be opposed.

My point was that the sound people are usually going for with flats is a sound that came out of simple tech and the quality of cheap gear these days is good enough to get that sound.

You also went on to say that you put flats on one of your basses that cost more than most peoples' cars and it made a sound like angels having an orgy. I'll have to give you the benefit of the doubt because you didn't back it up with a recording.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

[molan]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388613836' post='2324133']


I'm not enormously surprised that you turned up and behaved like I'd just molested your gran because you've always made a great show of how expensive your gear is and you're often plugging your boutique gear retail operation. Even to the point of defending that monstrosity that Jimmy Coppolo managed to sell to some mug for a small fortune.

So that's fine, you've got your angle and I'm well aware of it. You've got Foderas to sell after all, and so anyone who challenges the need for a guitar that costs more than most peoples' cars must be opposed.

My point was that the sound people are usually going for with flats is a sound that came out of simple tech and the quality of cheap gear these days is good enough to get that sound.

You also went on to say that you put flats on one of your basses that cost more than most peoples' cars and it made a sound like angels having an orgy. I'll have to give you the benefit of the doubt because you didn't back it up with a recording.

Anyway, thanks for your input.
[/quote]

Yay, I knew you'd have to take a personal pop eventually, now that is genuinely funny. I was pretty certain you were trying to set up another 'let's have a go at people with expensive basses' thread but good to see you've at least brought it out into the open.

The thing that genuinely surprises me every time you start one of these threads is that you always say you're so happy with a£200 Korean Squier. If that's so why do you feel the need to keep taking a pop at people who feel like spending more than £200 on an instrument - I just don't get where this animosity & bile comes from.

PS - I don't have any Foderas for sale and the latest line at the shop where I help out (entirely for free) is the far eastern one from Bass Collection. Not very 'boutique' at all but quite fun to play

Also, if you've managed to molest either of my grans than I'm impressed with your level of necrophilia, both have been dead for more than 30 years so you'd have to go to a lot of effort to dig them up. . .

Edited January 1, 2014 by molan

[Beedster]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1388613836' post='2324133']
My point was that the sound people are usually going for with flats is a sound that came out of simple tech and the quality of cheap gear these days is good enough to get that sound.
[/quote]

I think that to an extent you're right, a modern Squier Precision with flats will sound much the same as a Fender Custom Shop Precision with flats (and dare I say, a pre-CBS with flats). I'm not sure it holds true in all cases though, and I'm also not convinced that the same isn't true with rounds?

But on other basses, the differences can be quite profound, and perhaps those differences are a function of the electronics, materials and build quality of more up-market instruments?

Edited January 1, 2014 by Beedster