Steff Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Mate I've never questioned the fact he told her it's a JV which is more valuable than a common Squire. I am questioning the fact he's told them a certain price they should sell it for. Which they will never get. If it was a gumtree ad with a stated price of 50 quid, then ok, but this is an ebay auction. It was already heading to the expected for the condition price range. So no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Let's put it that way, I'm not ignoring neither questioning truth and morale. Yes, let them know it's a special Squier. What I am questioning is incompetent evaluating and interfering a sale. No you have no right to tell them this bass' real value is £700 I can see another one of those listings where the bass is listed for a looong time with a buy now option only. There's already one like that on ebay which has been listed continuously since April 2013. Current BIN price is £899 and I can see it's already been readjusted 3 times. Even in the great shape it is, I don't see it happening. Maybe the seller has been "tipped" he's got a treasure there... It's the same with the Aria bass on gumtree that's being relisted every month for almost half a year now, first price was about £1400 if I remember correct... he's gone down to £900 at the moment and with the tempo it'll take him another year to sell... another misguided treasure owner. So please restrain from harmful advices, that's all I wanna say. Never questioned anything else. Edited January 4, 2014 by Steff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 By the way here's a scenario: They bring the bass to a repair shop, get a £200 repair quote and go for it hoping to get closer to the dreamed £700 They list it on ebay and the auction ends at £500 (won't be surprised with the tight market at the moment) They end up with £300 profit and a lot of hassle and an actual loss because I think the bass would have sold for about £400 in its current shape. How about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Take it easy Chaps, whatever your opinion there's no need for anyone to get bent out of shape. Maybe it's a bit late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Wait, we haven't got the heavy artillery out yet! I personally mean no offence and haven't felt any coming my way from Simon's posts. Sorry if it felt like I've crossed any lines. Point taken. Edited January 4, 2014 by Steff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Steff' timestamp='1388755887' post='2325639'] The way I see it - she will relist the bass with a high starting price or a high reserve, it won't sell, then some music shop or trader will contact her with a £350-400 offer, will buy it and then display it in their shop for £700. [/quote] Do you really think it's worth £700? I'll send her a message right away 'Whatever you do don't sell it for less than £700 Lucy!'. Edited January 4, 2014 by gjones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I think it raises some interesting points, but just trying to avoid a ding-dong. I thought the sale looked genuine enough, but I'm no expert on genuine Squiers. I think you'd want to get a close look at the neck tho. At the end of the day, no matter what anyone thinks, it's the sellers sale. Isn't this what ebay is about, tho? Finding the dusty gem that the seller doesn't know what they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1388809194' post='2326374'] Do you really think it's worth £700? I'll send her a message right away 'Whatever you do don't sell it for less than £700 Lucy!'. [/quote] Well I left with the impression that's really close to what you've done mate. That's what caused the whole 4 pages of discussing. Doesn't matter what I think it's worth, for me is more important what is realistic. But yeah I see it possible to happen if a music trader buys it, refurbishes it himself/his luthier/ and displays it for £700. But that doesn't necessarily mean it will sell for £700. There's a lot of basses advertised here and they're selling for commission in a certain shop, so I've seen basses here for 1600 listed there for 1900... I was only saying by wrongly evaluating the bass you've broken a deal. And yes Billy, for me that's exactly what ebay is. With the exception I don't care if the seller is clueless or not. If they are selling something and they are lazy to spend an hour for a research, it's not my fault. But regardless, rare gems are usually spotted by more than one buyer so it usually ends in a normal auction way according to the market demand at the moment. I am very happy when I find something for a bit less then the usual price and I got the money to buy it. That makes my life as a working musician a tad easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I found 2 completed listings on eBay for Squier JV P basses. One for £800, the other for £600, both from dealers and both looked mint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Can you pass the links please? I was looking myself to help explain my point but only found one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooks79 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1388810771' post='2326377'] I found 2 completed listings on eBay for Squier JV P basses. One for £800, the other for £600, both from dealers and both looked mint. [/quote] Surely not, I had it on good authority that a battered one was worth 500-700! Admittedly that was with a polish and new strings... I'll not accept a penny less! /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 [quote name='Steff' timestamp='1388810402' post='2326376'] I was only saying by wrongly evaluating the bass you've broken a deal. [/quote] Predicting the final outcome of an ebay sale is not something that anyone is able to do . We are about done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmanzie Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 About 25 years ago I found someone in Loot (remember that?) listing an Ibanez TS808 overdrive pedal for about £30 - a pedal I particularly wanted. I phoned him up and arranged to come over and collect, but in my excitement I told him that I 'was really pleased to buy it as these pedals are becoming quite rare.' Sure enough he phoned me back in an hour and told me he had decided to keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) This raises some interesting opinions I must say! People are VERY quick to judge a seller if it's deemed that they might be trying to scam buyers on ebay (exploiting a potential buyer's ignorance of an item by selling it as something it isn't) but some members think it's more than acceptable for the reverse to happen (exploiting a seller's ignorance of an item by buying it as something it isn't!) IMO, gjones has simply informed the seller of what they have, giving them the chance to make their own judgement on what they should ask for it and avoid a more knowledgable buyer trying to take advantage. If they come to the wrong conclusion through their research and price themselves out of a sale, that is nobodies fault but their own. It's funny that taking advantage of someone's lack of knowledgable (which is really why sites like ebay are so popular!) is so acceptable if you're benefiting but not if you're on the receiving end! It's a crazy world. Edited January 4, 2014 by skej21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Personally I am saddened to see the flack Gareth is taking here. He *did the right thing* and acted with altruism. Something, it seems, that is not acceptable with the greedy folks these days. A reflection of how society is going down the tubes, maybe. Every man for himself and sod everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1388833223' post='2326506'] Personally I am saddened to see the flack Gareth is taking here. He *did the right thing* and acted with altruism. Something, it seems, that is not acceptable with the greedy folks these days. A reflection of how society is going down the tubes, maybe. Every man for himself and sod everyone else. [/quote] My point exactly. If I found a rare bass in a shop or for sale by another (knowledgable) basschatter i'd expect to pay a FAIR price but some people are just out to get whatever they can at everyone's expense but their own and then have the nerve to complain when the victim gets wise. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooks79 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The way I see it is if a seller is happy to accept a price, and a buyer is happy to pay it, is that not 2 happy parties leaving a transaction? Too many 'experts' around these days. Nothing is worth more than what someone is willing to pay. I see ebay as a forum for people to pay as much or as little as they are happy to pay and the seller is happy to accept. After all, there are reserve and buy it now options for a reason. BORING EBAY EXAMPLE STORY ALERT: I recently saw an item I wanted, starting at 99p, no reserve, no bids. I contacted the seller, asked what they were looking to sell for, they replied they wanted over £100, I asked him, what are you HAPPY to sell for, he said £130, I said I was happy to pay that, I got what I wanted for half the price of a new one, he got paid the money he wanted to get for it. Could I have got it cheaper if I waited for the item to see if anyone bid? Maybe. Could the seller have got more if he let the auction run? Maybe. As it stands, we are both happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1388833223' post='2326506'] Personally I am saddened to see the flack Gareth is taking here. He *did the right thing* and acted with altruism. Something, it seems, that is not acceptable with the greedy folks these days. A reflection of how society is going down the tubes, maybe. Every man for himself and sod everyone else. [/quote] Quite. It's called 'healthy competition' and is good for us, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooks79 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Also, considering I kind of pointed the conversation in this direction, I would rather it moved away from pointing at gjones in this instance, and was more about the actual idea of people getting involved in sales threads/ebay/gumtree etc. when they have no interest in buying themselves, and may be giving good/bad advice, as that is what I feel is actually making an interesting conversation here, and I don't wanna see the thread get locked... Lets play nice, cos everyone whinges when a good thread get locked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 [quote name='Steff' timestamp='1388811186' post='2326379'] Can you pass the links please? I was looking myself to help explain my point but only found one. [/quote] [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Squier-JV-Precision-Bass-Guitar-1982-Made-in-Japan-With-Hard-Case-/221293535432?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item33861f60c8&nma=true&si=pAliMJ9a3yndIlGndU21PIRmdAk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Squier-JV-Precision-Bass-Guitar-1982-Made-in-Japan-With-Hard-Case-/221293535432?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item33861f60c8&nma=true&si=pAliMJ9a3yndIlGndU21PIRmdAk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557[/url] [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1983-Fender-Squier-JV-Precision-Bass-Guitar-Made-in-Japan-1983-/261328069656?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item3cd85de418&nma=true&si=pAliMJ9a3yndIlGndU21PIRmdAk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1983-Fender-Squier-JV-Precision-Bass-Guitar-Made-in-Japan-1983-/261328069656?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item3cd85de418&nma=true&si=pAliMJ9a3yndIlGndU21PIRmdAk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1388833900' post='2326523'] Also, considering I kind of pointed the conversation in this direction, I would rather it moved away from pointing at gjones in this instance, and was more about the actual idea of people getting involved in sales threads/ebay/gumtree etc. when they have no interest in buying themselves, and may be giving good/bad advice, as that is what I feel is actually making an interesting conversation here, and I don't wanna see the thread get locked... Lets play nice, cos everyone whinges when a good thread get locked [/quote] Fair point. At the end of the day, I don't see any difference between knowingly offering less money for an item than I know it's worth (ie, knowingly ripping someone off) and someone trying to sell me something that's worth less than they ask (knowingly ripping me off). Sites like ebay just offer an environment in which people can take advantage of others, in both directions. If they have a 'report' button to allow ANYONE to inform ebay of a seller who is trying to scam someone, surely it's just as acceptable for ANYONE to inform a seller to offer them similar protection in the sale of the item? Edited January 4, 2014 by skej21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooks79 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1388834611' post='2326530'] Fair point. At the end of the day, I don't see any difference between knowingly offering less money for an item than I know it's worth (ie, knowingly ripping someone off) and someone trying to sell me something that's worth less than they ask (knowingly rippinge off). Sites like ebay just offer an environment in which people can take advantage of others, in both directions. [/quote] Thing with this is, either way round, regardless of its 'worth'* if someones not happy, then they don't have to buy it/sell it? (*I put this next to worth, cos isnt anything only worth what someone is willing to pay at the time you sell? If I have a one off vinyl, that is so rare its 'worth' a million, but I don't want it, and I only get offered a thousand pounds, is that not good to me still? If I was happy to accept, I would be £1000 better off!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 [quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1388833900' post='2326523'] Also, considering I kind of pointed the conversation in this direction, I would rather it moved away from pointing at gjones in this instance, and was more about the actual idea of people getting involved in sales threads/ebay/gumtree etc. when they have no interest in buying themselves, and may be giving good/bad advice, as that is what I feel is actually making an interesting conversation here, and I don't wanna see the thread get locked... Lets play nice, cos everyone whinges when a good thread get locked [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 [quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1388834885' post='2326536'] Thing with this is, either way round, regardless of its 'worth'* if someones not happy, then they don't have to buy it/sell it? (*I put this next to worth, cos isnt anything only worth what someone is willing to pay at the time you sell? If I have a one off vinyl, that is so rare its 'worth' a million, but I don't want it, and I only get offered a thousand pounds, is that not good to me still? If I was happy to accept, I would be £1000 better off!) [/quote] The point is, you would know its a rare one off and would make a judgement on what it's worth based on that. If you had inherited a vinyl collection, took it to be valued and the valuer/buyer said 'it's all just average stuff, I'll give you £100 for the lot' knowing that there was in fact a rare one off vinyl in your collection worth £1000, he's essentially scamming you, knowing you'll base your decision on what YOU think it's worth and what you'd be RELATIVELY happy with. IF the same valuer said 'you've got a £1000 vinyl in here!' your expectation would immediately change, and rightly so. Buying an item from a clueless seller on ebay who is selling on behalf of a friend (therefore having no knowledge of what they are selling) whilst knowing its true value but trying to take advantage is up to you and your moral compass. However, you can't complain if someone with different morals then informs the seller and they change the expectations of what they want for it (however accurate their new idea of its value is) as that's the seller's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Guys, You're still missing the point and I don't really know why. Nowhere have I talked about dishonesty, taking advantage of the uninformed, or any similar predatory behaviour. My only point was, and still is The original owner of this bass knows what he's selling as he is a bass player and he refused to take offers on the bass and end early. I think he was just surprised and pleased to know that those basses should sell for £700 after a polish up. That's where Gareth has done wrong. The owner is a bass player. I've said it at least 5 times so far in earlier posts but funnily enough the defenders of the righteous seem to ignore this fact and keep talking about the "poor uninformed woman" She is a shop that the bass player in question is using to sell his bass No wonder she acted surprised when someone messaged her saying she should expect £700 for this bass. Edited January 4, 2014 by Steff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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