Where would you say MOST of your sound comes from?

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='231174' date='Jul 2 2008, 10:50 AM']I don't think the jaco analogy is very valid. He had a playing style that was distinctive. You would recognise his playing style, but think he had sh*t tone.[/quote]

That's sort-of my point. He'd still sound like Jaco, you'd still know it was Jaco. Whereas some other half-arsed faker like me given a '62 Jazz fretless and a huge Acoustic 370 rig would still sound like a half-arsed faker.

I bet everybody here's gone through periods where they're frustrated with their sound and tried spending their way out of it. It never works. It's very rarely your gear that needs to change - unless you have majorly crappy gear - the only way is to learn/play your way out of it.

[johnnylager]

[quote name='Cantdosleepy' post='231158' date='Jul 2 2008, 10:25 AM']I'd be more like 'Yikes, this room smells of dead guy. Hey check it out - zombie Jaco. Nice rig, Jacks. What are you doing? No! Back off, Jaco! No - not my brains!!!!! Noooooooooooooooooo!'[/quote]
Until I read this, I was unaware that you could choke on soggy Weetabix, nice one sleepy! Now come and help me get them out of the keyboard, smartarse.

[bigjohn]

I'm with Alexclabber and his Venn diagram army.

I usually find my playing sounds pretty much the same whatever gear I use. I eq it till I get a tone I'm familiar with / like. Some gear is louder, and some I overdrive more.

However, I think the biggest influence on what sounds I make is how much beer I've drunk.

Edited July 3, 2008 by bigjohn

[cheddatom]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='231734' date='Jul 3 2008, 02:37 AM']That's sort-of my point. He'd still sound like Jaco, you'd still know it was Jaco. Whereas some other half-arsed faker like me given a '62 Jazz fretless and a huge Acoustic 370 rig would still sound like a half-arsed faker.

I bet everybody here's gone through periods where they're frustrated with their sound and tried spending their way out of it. It never works. It's very rarely your gear that needs to change - unless you have majorly crappy gear - the only way is to learn/play your way out of it.[/quote]

I think maybe a better question would be to ask: What makes up a players "sound". Is it his playing style? or is it his tone?

You would be able to tell if jaco was playing the bass, because you're familiar with his style of playing - nothing to do with the sound of his bass, amp, strings etc. If you think this represents his "sound" then fair enough. I think that Jaco had a disctinctive bass tone - lots of people have tried to copy this since, and succeeded, the only reason they don't "sound" like Jaco is because they have a different playing style. However, I would say that these people have a "Jaco sound" or "Jaco tone" (and it doesn't matter what gear they use to make it). If Jaco was playing a sh*t bass through a sh*t 8" practice combo, then he would sound sh*t. You would be able to tell from the style that it was Jaco, but Jaco wouldn't have the distinctive "Jaco tone", and IMHO the "Jaco sound" wouldn't be there.

I think that some people play gigs with a bass, a cable, and an amp. Of course these people think it's all in their fingers - they could never change tone without relying on their fingers! If this works, then that's fine, but so often bassists will get to a studio and be blown away by the tone the engineer gets them, or borrow a pro rig and be amazed at their tone.

I think in quite a few situations, if you are frustrated with your "sound" (tone) then it can be solved by changing your gear. I was frustrated at a lack of bottom end and headroom, so I bought an 18" extension cab. I was frustrated at a lack of punch, so I bought a blending pedal etc.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='231831' date='Jul 3 2008, 10:43 AM']I think in quite a few situations, if you are frustrated with your "sound" (tone) then it can be solved by changing your gear.[/quote]

If your tone is that far removed from the tone you want then yes - but it's always worth seeing how you can get closer to that tone with your existing gear. In my opinion most tone problems are tied in with not being loud enough or at least not audible enough in the mix and sadly in the majority of cases these are more easily solved by changing what the guitarist is doing, not what you are!

Alex

[cheddatom]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='231844' date='Jul 3 2008, 11:08 AM']If your tone is that far removed from the tone you want then yes - but it's always worth seeing how you can get closer to that tone with your existing gear. In my opinion most tone problems are tied in with not being loud enough or at least not audible enough in the mix and sadly in the majority of cases these are more easily solved by changing what the guitarist is doing, not what you are!

Alex[/quote]

The two examples I gave were quite subtle changes in tone that would not have been achievable if I hadn't bought the gear. Not "that far removed".

I certainly agree that you should use your gear to it's maximum potential, and I have seen a few guys spend loads of money on gear to try and get a better sound even after I have told them that they needn't do it. One guy I know bought a big trace stack because he always sounded sh*t. I kept telling him it was because he gets carried away at gigs and misses his strings, or hits the wrong ones with his flailing pick hand, but he didn't believe me 'cos he sounded fine at home. He sounded better at home with the TE stack, but he still sounded sh*t at gigs.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='231851' date='Jul 3 2008, 11:19 AM']The two examples I gave were quite subtle changes in tone that would not have been achievable if I hadn't bought the gear. Not "that far removed".[/quote]

The lack of bottom end and headroom comes under the not being loud enough or not having enough output to get the tone you want at high volumes.

Once you're into effects I find it's a whole different world to 'standard' clean or slightly dirty bass sounds - I used to use a big board with a dozen pedals on it and at that point the gear becomes much more essential to the sound. I remember one song I wrote relying on a Deep Impact into a Unibass into a BassDrive - that is a monstrous sound and pretty inimitable!

Many gear problems can be solved by a better understanding of how to use the gear - correct gain staging, EQing, positioning for acoustic benefits, etc.

Alex

[cheddatom]

My leack of headroom wasn't really that I wasn't loud enough, but that my amp tended to break up in a way that I didn't want at the volume I had it, so extra headroom gave me the same level but a different tone.

I think the fact that I (used to) gig with 25 pedals means that i'm more biased to the gear side of the argument. Like you say, when using lots of pedals "at that point the gear becomes much more essential to the sound".

[alexclaber]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='231874' date='Jul 3 2008, 11:54 AM']My leack of headroom wasn't really that I wasn't loud enough, but that my amp tended to break up in a way that I didn't want at the volume I had it, so extra headroom gave me the same level but a different tone.[/quote]

Yeah, I should have been clearer about that. Basically any reasonably powered amp will give you enough midrange to be heard. The challenge is getting enough clean bottom - most speakers have far too little excursion limited power handling to give a lot of output in the lows unless you share the load across lots of speakers, which is one reason the classic 8x10" works rather well. In designing my Barefaced Bass cabs I've really focused on getting high excursion limited power handling from a lightweight cab without giving up sensitivity - unfortunately there aren't many speakers you can buy that are either not hideously expensive or have specs that suit bass guitar as opposed to PA subwoofer use that fulfil those criteria.

In the past once I had my sound running through a few full-on effects pedals you could barely tell what bass I was playing or how I was playing it! But give my any bass that isn't totally dire and an amp that's loud enough and I'll be me.

Alex

[Bilbo]

I'm gonna come at this from another angle. I accept what other people have said about basses, amps, eqs, fingers etc but I think that, in order to be in control of your sound, you need to deal with the following:

your ears - your ability to recognise the constituent parts of a sound, recognise what is right and wrong about the sound you are hearing and being able to replicate the details of your sound using the available technology (i.e your sound is only your sound if you can recreate it at a pinch - otherwise, its just a sound)

your mind - you need to develop an adult relationship with your critical senses (how does it sound tonight? Is it as good as it can be with the available gear? have I soundchecked properly? A bad attitude to this area of your practice will undermine your sound - the most obvious example being 'I'll use this amp because its lighter to carry despite the fact that it doesn't sound as good as the other one' - understandable but potentially counter-productive)

where you set up on stage

the room, the nature of the stage/floor coverings etc

the drummers sound (in jazz, the wrong ride cymbal can KILL the bass sound)

the guitar players sound

the piano/keyboard players sound

the room

the room

the room

oh, and if I forget to mention it, the room. Learn to control the rooms you play in and you will find nirvana (please, no Cobain jokes).

[lozbass]

Weird...'read half the thread and decided to contribute a one word answer (i.e., 'room'), only to find bilbo had beaten me to it with an apparently definitive response

Edited July 20, 2008 by lozbass

[Sarah5string]

[quote name='ahpook' post='229926' date='Jun 30 2008, 06:37 PM']

/highfives/[/quote]
*goes to high five.... misses... falls flat on face...*

[Kiwi]

Increasingly I see my sound as a recipe, and I'm the chef. I've heard other people's rigs and thought 'bit woolly' or 'bit boxy' or 'bit harsh' but if it works for them thats cool with me. I like a lot of lower mids with warmth, bark and some snap. The Smith and Musicman basses provide the basic flavour, the amp and cab adds herbs and spices. The Deep Impact and Unibass are more or less a garnish. I'm probably nearly there in terms of the sound, I just wish I had a cab like the EBS that pointed up at my ears on small stages.

The room is important but the gear choices you make and positioning affect how well you can adjust to the acoustics. I've found angled cabs reduce the influence of the room and stage because the cones point directly at my ears rather than blast past my ankles using the walls/ceiling and back of stage as reflective surfaces. I also often find myself dealing with the subsonic backwash coming out of the PA.

[thepurpleblob]

I don't buy the "my sound" thing, but I'm probably weird. I've always set everything flat and just played. With half decent gear I always seem to get a sound that does the job. With low bass notes I always think the room contributes more than you probably imagine and there isn't much you can do about that.

I guess I'd rather worry about playing the right notes at the right time (whichI *do* need to worry about)

Edited July 20, 2008 by thepurpleblob

[OutToPlayJazz]

Interesting thread, this one...

Stlye-wise & tone production-wise (the human end of the chain) I sound like me. Only my style produces what I do. Think of it as a mix of classically trained lower string player meets jazz bass player meets funk/rock/blues player. You get the drift...

Gear-wise, I'm going to use the MarkBass mantle. They say that their gear lets the true sound of your bass shine through with a minimum of processing or modelling. When I'm playing my Status basses, I sound like a Status player. Very unique sound, but still a little different on each bass. When I'm playing my Fenders, I guess they sound like Fenders on very clean strings. Always very clean strings. A friend of mine once said that I had a very trebly, zingy sound.

[MythSte]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='244049' date='Jul 20 2008, 09:07 PM']Interesting thread, this one...

Stlye-wise & tone production-wise (the human end of the chain) I sound like me. Only my style produces what I do. Think of it as a mix of classically trained lower string player meets jazz bass player meets funk/rock/blues player. You get the drift...

Gear-wise, I'm going to use the MarkBass mantle. They say that their gear lets the true sound of your bass shine through with a minimum of processing or modelling. When I'm playing my Status basses, I sound like a Status player. Very unique sound, but still a little different on each bass. When I'm playing my Fenders, I guess they sound like Fenders on very clean strings. Always very clean strings. A friend of mine once said that I had a very trebly, zingy sound.[/quote]

I'd Actually love to hear you play sir! Do you have any clips?

[OutToPlayJazz]

Hey Ste, no rock stuff atm, but have a look at www.myspace.com/outtoplayjazz

All the bass playing on the mp3 player on that site is me

Feel free to drop into the Anglesey motorcycle show on Augusrt 23rd. My band, The PHD are playing headline on the Saturday night.

Rich.

[stevebasshead]

[b]You're all compl-e-t-e-ly wrong.[/b] I get my sound out of my cabs. I checked, I put my ears next to them and it's [i]definitely[/i] the cabs. I then tried putting my fingers in my ears and got no sound at all, not one chuffing note, so I definitely don't get my sound from my fingers.

I now have earwax on my strings and they sound dead. Would using Elixirs help?

[Oscar South]

[quote name='stevebasshead' post='245575' date='Jul 22 2008, 06:15 PM'][b]You're all compl-e-t-e-ly wrong.[/b] I get my sound out of my cabs. I checked, I put my ears next to them and it's [i]definitely[/i] the cabs. I then tried putting my fingers in my ears and got no sound at all, not one chuffing note, so I definitely don't get my sound from my fingers.

I now have earwax on my strings and they sound dead. Would using Elixirs help?[/quote]

[Kiwi]

[quote name='stevebasshead' post='245575' date='Jul 22 2008, 06:15 PM'][b]You're all compl-e-t-e-ly wrong.[/b] I get my sound out of my cabs. I checked, I put my ears next to them and it's [i]definitely[/i] the cabs. I then tried putting my fingers in my ears and got no sound at all, not one chuffing note, so I definitely don't get my sound from my fingers.

I now have earwax on my strings and they sound dead. Would using Elixirs help?[/quote]

lmao

[spinynorman]

[quote name='stevebasshead' post='245575' date='Jul 22 2008, 06:15 PM'][b]You're all compl-e-t-e-ly wrong.[/b] I get my sound out of my cabs. I checked, I put my ears next to them and it's [i]definitely[/i] the cabs. I then tried putting my fingers in my ears and got no sound at all, not one chuffing note, so I definitely don't get my sound from my fingers.

I now have earwax on my strings and they sound dead. Would using Elixirs help?[/quote]

That's all very well, but how does your sound get into the cab before it comes out? I think it's the ohms, or maybe the watts.

[OutToPlayJazz]

[quote name='stevebasshead' post='245575' date='Jul 22 2008, 06:15 PM'][b]You're all compl-e-t-e-ly wrong.[/b] I get my sound out of my cabs. I checked, I put my ears next to them and it's [i]definitely[/i] the cabs. I then tried putting my fingers in my ears and got no sound at all, not one chuffing note, so I definitely don't get my sound from my fingers.

I now have earwax on my strings and they sound dead. Would using Elixirs help?[/quote]

LOL! Just one question, though... How did you manage to play if you had your fingers in your ears? Talented toes or an extra talented penis, perhaps?

[xilddx]

Really, your sound is you and the choices you make, whatever has influenced those choices is still you and your humanity.

[stevebasshead]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='246466' date='Jul 23 2008, 10:39 PM']That's all very well, but how does your sound get into the cab before it comes out? I think it's the ohms, or maybe the watts.[/quote]

It's a mystery to me, maybe one for Sherlock Ohms and Dr Watts-on


[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='246477' date='Jul 23 2008, 10:54 PM']LOL! Just one question, though... How did you manage to play if you had your fingers in your ears? Talented toes or an extra talented penis, perhaps?[/quote]

Building up the callous was a nightmare

Edited July 24, 2008 by stevebasshead

[Sarah5string]

My sound comes from Scottish power... who supply our electricity