No set list?

[Grassie]

The covers band I play in doesn't use a set list. We do have a list of around 40 songs that we can pick from, but we don't physically use a piece of paper with songs written on it in the order we're going to play them. This generally leads to some gaps between songs while the two guitarists (one of them sings lead) decide which song to play next. Add to this the gaps between songs while the singer changes his guitar for no reason other than a Les Paul or a Strat was used on the original, so that's what he has to play for that particular song. All this leads to a set that doesn't flow at all, and if we manage to get people up and dancing, the aforementioned guitar-changing-song-deciding-habit tends to kill the moment, and the dancers go and sit down while these two discuss the next song. This came to a head on Saturday when the guitarists disagreed over which tune to play. Singer wanted to play a Free song, non-singer wanted to play a Foo Fighters song. Non-singer started to play the opening riff, while singer told him "no, we're doing Free". This then led to non-singer getting stroppy and going "fine, have it your way", then started to play opening riff to the Free tune in a manner which suggested that he wasn't a happy bunny. Singer then decides to say quite loudly "Oh I'm not in the mood for this!" but eventually we all join in and finish the song. The mood then lightens toward the end of the first set and everyone is friends again. The joys of being in a band with no set list! We have 50+ gigs booked for this year, and I will honour every one of them, but at the end of the year I'm off. Anyone else have to deal with childish, ego maniacs while playing in a PUB COVERS BAND?

[White Cloud]

Oh dear, in my experience punters HATE long gaps between songs due to band members messing around in this way.

My opinion is it is unprofessional to wing it without set lists if it will create time lapses in the entertainment. That would frustrate the hell out of me.

[Urban Bassman]

Crazy, for all the reasons you state. 50+ gigs a year is good going though. Is there no way you, and perhaps the other member/s of band, could get them to agree to try doing some gigs, say a months worth, with a set list? Hopefully then they'll see the benefits - keeping the crowd dancing, better flow between songs, fewer guitar changes etc and so on.

If they won't do that then I think you'd be justified in going sooner than that IMHO.

[vsmith1]

+1

Set List is essential - but you might sweeten the bitter pill by suggesting that you don't have to use the same sequence every gig, also make it that you segue between songs for a few. We have 3 Beatles songs that we basically just go straight on between them.You might also suggest doing a medley - I have played in a band that had In The Midnight Hour 75% through switched into Knock on Wood and then back to In The Midnight Hour (all great Donald "Duck:" Dunn bass lines).

Arrange songs in the set list to minimise guitar changes. There is an art to creating set lists - so don't be afraid to try variations from one gig to another.

[Grassie]

[quote name='Urban Bassman' timestamp='1389007148' post='2328590']
Crazy, for all the reasons you state. 50+ gigs a year is good going though. Is there no way you, and perhaps the other member/s of band, could get them to agree to try doing some gigs, say a months worth, with a set list? Hopefully then they'll see the benefits - keeping the crowd dancing, better flow between songs, fewer guitar changes etc and so on.

If they won't do that then I think you'd be justified in going sooner than that IMHO.
[/quote]
We do [i]occasionally[/i] use a written set list, but it's [b]never[/b] adhered to. Songs will be missed out or swapped about because "the crowd aren't up for it yet" or "the atmosphere isn't right yet" or some other BS. When the subject of a list is brought up it is usually answered with "well why don't you write one then? Why does it have to be me?" Fair enough, but it's not me singing them. I've been in this band for a year and another year is all I'm prepared to do. I have a holiday to pay for by May and all my gig money is going towards that. If I didn't have that financial incentive I would have finished on NYE. I've never before been one to say I'm only doing it for the money, because that's never been the case, but with this band it's sad but true.

[JTUK]

Lot of thought goes into a set list as keys and gtr needs to re-program...and they are doing this with the minimum of space between numbers.

Some people can carry this space though and it can add to the gig... but they are few and far between, IMO...

If you are going to work towards shows, rather than pub sets then you need to try and give the audience something more to justify ticket prices.

Deoends what gigs you see yourself doing or want to do.

We have a few decent shows this year and I want to be planning the set and line-up now...
Something tells me that I am leaving it late...again..for the summer. which will be VERY frustrating.

People say they want to do this to generate better fees but it is a lot of work...

[tauzero]

One of the two covers bands I'm in decides on a set list at the last minute and the singer scribbles it down on a bit of paper, so the only one to know what the next song is is him. When you have a guitarist and a drummer who both take ages deciding to start the songs that they start, even when they know it's them starting, and I don't know that the next song is one of the ones I start, the flow just isn't there. I have raised this, I'm going to raise it again. Guitarist has one guitar tuned a semitone down, one at standard pitch, and there's a couple of numbers where he uses a capo, so all the detuned numbers get played in one lump at the start of the second set (so he puts the detuned guitar in standard pitch in the first set as a backup, then tunes it down in the interval) and the capoed numbers are also put together, so that does help by minimising disruption.

In the other band, Mrs Zero prepares the set list and gives everybody a copy. I will, one day, get her to print them out in a big enough font so the drummer and I can read them more easily, but it does mean that the set flows better. The drummer is better at getting songs going than the drummer in the other band. No guitar changes and the lack of a backup guitar is covered in the case of a string break by Mrs Zero and I doing something with just bass and vocals (and maybe drums) - "Stand by me" and "Fever" come in handy.

In both bands, if someone feels it necessary, we'll vary the set list on the fly. That doesn't happen often.

[Grassie]

Recent gigs seem to have been a bit lacklustre. Not sure whether this is down to band apathy after a busy year or audience apathy due to the aforementioned problems. Whatever, it's causing tension which will also be picked up by punters. And it looks unprofessional too. Not to say that we are professionals, but that's what we all aim to put across isn't it?

[JapanAxe]

I always use a set list for my bands, but that doesn't mean to say we don't depart from it if it seems the right thing to do. On the country circuit I will tailor the sets according to their preference for trad or modern country.

If there are punters up dancing, I will frequently be playing the intro to the next song before the applause (ahem!) has died away from the last one.

To the OP, if your guitarists can't agree to use a formal set list, at least have runs of 3 or 4 songs that go well together, and stick to those. This approach worked very well in a dance band that I played for - typically we might play four consecutive pop numbers from their huge pad, followed by a couple of waltzes, then the bandleader would call a couple more numbers, and so on.

[Bilbo]

Usually have a set list but it is 'flexible', depending on the atmosphere.

[Grassie]

Singer/guitarist is the only one who doesn't want to use a written list. The rest of us had to badger him into using one for NYE as we were playing for longer than we normally do, and we also needed to tailor it for the section post-midnight.

[KevB]

Sympathise with the OP, I've had this out with our band leader (singer/front man) to no avail. He likes to supposedly 'keep it flexible, go with the feeling from the crowd' but in truth we often play very very similar sets so how flexible is it really? However without knowing for sure what he wants to do next (I suspect half the time he doesn't either) there are inevitably awkward gaps that in some cases seem to go on forever especially when the guitarist is fiddling about with amp setting or whatever for a particular sound. One of the reasons (along with chronic lack of reinvestment in gear) I think the band has never got out of the pub circuit. Just coming up to my first anniversary of joining but at this rate I'd be surprised if I do another full year despite being reasonably busy.

[Grassie]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1389011198' post='2328664']
Sympathise with the OP, I've had this out with our band leader (singer/front man) to no avail. He likes to supposedly 'keep it flexible, go with the feeling from the crowd' but in truth we often play very very similar sets so how flexible is it really? However without knowing for sure what he wants to do next (I suspect half the time he doesn't either) there are inevitably awkward gaps that in some cases seem to go on forever especially when [b]the guitarist is fiddling about with amp setting or whatever for a particular sound.[/b] One of the reasons (along with chronic lack of reinvestment in gear) I think the band has never got out of the pub circuit. Just coming up to my first anniversary of joining but at this rate I'd be surprised if I do another full year despite being reasonably busy.
[/quote]Oh, our gaps between songs could be a lot longer if it weren't for the non-singing guitarist fiddling with his amp settings[i] during [/i]songs. Makes for an interesting dynamic when the rhythm guitar drops out....

Edited January 6, 2014 by Grassie

[chris_b]

We use a set list and 99% of the time we stick to it. Usually the set list is designed for the gig, so can vary.

All the big touring bands plan the set. That's how you put on a professional show.

What we play is designed to flow through the set from start to finish. A set isn't a collections of numbers it's a "whole" thing so, unless you're very good at making it up on the spur of the moment, should be planned.

Discussing the numbers on stage is very amateurish, arguing is even worse, and makes the band look bad. Why would you want to do that?

[Grassie]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1389011686' post='2328678']
Discussing the numbers on stage is very amateurish, arguing is even worse, and makes the band look bad. Why would you want to do that?
[/quote]Yes. Right on the money there sir. It does look amateurish, [i][b]absolutely[/b][/i]! I'm sure there were a few sniggers from the audience too when the singer/guitar got his strop on loudly. I just wanted to go home.

[itsmedunc]

[quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1389005849' post='2328572']
The covers band I play in doesn't use a set list. We do have a list of around 40 songs that we can pick from, but we don't physically use a piece of paper with songs written on it in the order we're going to play them. This generally leads to some gaps between songs while the two guitarists (one of them sings lead) decide which song to play next. Add to this the gaps between songs while the singer changes his guitar for no reason other than a Les Paul or a Strat was used on the original, so that's what he has to play for that particular song. All this leads to a set that doesn't flow at all, and if we manage to get people up and dancing, the aforementioned guitar-changing-song-deciding-habit tends to kill the moment, and the dancers go and sit down while these two discuss the next song. This came to a head on Saturday when the guitarists disagreed over which tune to play. Singer wanted to play a Free song, non-singer wanted to play a Foo Fighters song. Non-singer started to play the opening riff, while singer told him "no, we're doing Free". This then led to non-singer getting stroppy and going "fine, have it your way", then started to play opening riff to the Free tune in a manner which suggested that he wasn't a happy bunny. Singer then decides to say quite loudly "Oh I'm not in the mood for this!" but eventually we all join in and finish the song. The mood then lightens toward the end of the first set and everyone is friends again. The joys of being in a band with no set list! We have 50+ gigs booked for this year, and I will honour every one of them, but at the end of the year I'm off. Anyone else have to deal with childish, ego maniacs while playing in a PUB COVERS BAND?
[/quote]

That sounds like us but we do have a set list. The guitarists brain starts to use chaos mode and he cant help but saying "I'm not playing that one yet me". It then takes a while for him to get his bearings and decide which one he does want to play. I suspect it must be the enhancements... Good job we are all mates and don't take ourselves too seriously!

Edited January 6, 2014 by itsmedunc

[toneknob]

Learn a few danceable grooves with your drummer that you can slip into while the two front boys sort themselves out. Make them tight and make sure the two of you can cue an ending with a milliseconds notice.

[Grassie]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1389012617' post='2328696']
Learn a few danceable grooves with your drummer that you can slip into while the two front boys sort themselves out. Make them tight and make sure the two of you can cue an ending with a milliseconds notice.
[/quote]
This might work. Going to try that I think.

[UglyDog]

No set list? Oh dear oh dear oh deary deary me. It sounds like a recipe for disaster and I'm not surprised it culminated in a falling out.
And nothing kills a gig dynamic more effectively than long gaps between songs. Anything more than 10-15 seconds and you start losing your audience, unless your frontman can engage them in some genuinely witty banter (good for guitar-change gaps). And by witty banter I definitely don't mean "Did you hear the one about the nun and the wrestler...?".
I do not blame you one iota for wanting to walk. I would sooner play a gig without trousers than without a set list.

[mep]

You can work without a set list, and I have done this in a previous band, with 2 guitarists and both could sing. It was left to the main singer to call the songs and [u]only[/u] him. We had a few songs that we started / finished sets and the rest flowed as necesary.

You have 2 options. Leave the set to 1 person or make a set list before the gig. The music needs to flow for both the audience and the band. Good luck.

[Dad3353]

Many (many..!) years ago I saw a band in which the 'front man' would engage the audience in an apparently interminable story, mostly ad lib, between songs, as the guitars and keys prepared for the next number. These ramblings could be ten minutes or more. His name..? Gabriel, I think. Yes, that's it. Peter Gabriel. Early days with Genesis. Maybe you could adopt a similar theatrical role whilst the others sulk over the set to come..?

[TimR]

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1389014359' post='2328732']
You can work without a set list, and I have done this in a previous band, with 2 guitarists and both could sing. It was left to the main singer to call the songs and [u]only[/u] him. We had a few songs that we started / finished sets and the rest flowed as necesary.

You have 2 options. Leave the set to 1 person or make a set list before the gig. The music needs to flow for both the audience and the band. Good luck.
[/quote]

Yes. You should always have a 'stage manager' running the show. It used to be the drummer in our old band. Doesn't have to be the band leader or the lead vocals. The key thing is that it's one person and what they say goes, no arguments, argue in the van afterwards.

[Conan]

I actually left my last band mainly for this reason!

We always had used setlists (in fact it was me that used to do them), but the singer decided that he wanted the spontaneity of being able to call the songs to "suit the atmosphere and the audience" Bizarrely, he had less imagination than empathy and often used to call the same songs in a similar order anyway... Other songs he would simply forget about for several gigs in a row...

Composing a setlist is a very complex job (as well as being a thankless task!). Not only do you have to think about the keys and the tempos that the songs are in, but also things like whether any of the musicians need to change tunings, settings or even instruments. It is very difficult swapping your fretted bass for a fretless one, re-EQing, re-tuning and then actually playing the effing song when the rest of the band have actually started!

The singer genuinely seemed to think that "keeping the band on their toes" was a good thing. In fact, at times, we would deliberately not tell us which song was coming next until we were about to start it!! What the hell is that about?

Edited January 6, 2014 by Conan

[KevB]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1389015774' post='2328768'] I actually left my last band mainly for this reason! We always had used setlists (in fact it was me that used to do them), but the singer decided that he wanted the spontaneity of being able to call the songs to "suit the atmosphere and the audience" Bizarrely, he had less imagination than empathy and often used to call the same songs in a similar order anyway... Other songs he would simply forget about for several gigs in a row... [/quote]

Are you sure you didn't used to be in my band?

[borisbrain]

There are few things worse than watching a band make it up as they go along. It's hardly professional. Very early in my current band's days, a DJ friend told me we were great, but shouldn't faff about so much between songs. Everybody took this to heart and now we always romp through a 33-song set with virtually no breathers. People love it, and a set list is essential for this.

That doesn't mean to say we always stick to it rigorously - if the tumbleweed starts flowing, we'll promote a poppier song in the list. But we always generally know where we are going. We also rotate the set list for different gigs, to prevent boredom in ourselves. Fortunately we have a large repertoire to choose from, which is handy if additional encores are called for.

BB