advise needed for phattening up your tone

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='BassManKev' post='232945' date='Jul 4 2008, 11:04 PM']the boss odb-3 is a brilliant pedal

[/quote]

I dislike it. The blend knob has potential. Sansamp BDDI with blend at 11 o'clock and drive at 2 o'clock is todays favourite flavour of overdrive.

[Kubickiboy]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='233441' date='Jul 6 2008, 02:28 AM']I dislike it. The blend knob has potential. Sansamp BDDI with blend at 11 o'clock and drive at 2 o'clock is todays favourite flavour of overdrive.[/quote]
Both have good qualities. ODB3 for grind. But I do favour the Sansamp at the mo. An expensive pedal I'd wanted for ages, tried others, then took the hit and just bought one. Great!

[burno70]

Yeah, I'm thinking of going down the Sansamp route, I've used one before and they do sound excellent.

[51m0n]

My £0.02

Use a compressor with the following settings:-

attack : medium - slow
release : fast - medium
ratio : between 2.5-1 and 4-1

Then start playing and turn the trheshold down, keep mucking around with the threshold, if you have adecent compressor then at a certain point turning the threshold down starts to really fatten up the tone. I mean a huge amount. Doesnt make it sound hugely compressed either (unless that is the inherent nature of the compressor), just gives you loads of 'booty'

If you want more punch then shorten the release, more definition then length the attacka bit, and so on.

If your compressor doesn't have the full set of controls then you aren't going to be necessarily going to be able to get this to work, obviously.

It works beautifully on my BP8. Can get very very fat, even on a solo'ed bridge pup, which sounds fantastic.

[burno70]

Yeah a few posters have now mentioned how tweaking a compressor can fatten the tone. I have an EBS Multicomp. I'll give it a go tomorrow and see what happens.

[El_JimBob]

If you're using a Multicomp, Tubesim mode is a must for a bit of extra bite and 'girth' to the sound - also make sure you're not compressing the bass frequencies too much - this will actually make your tone thinner and weaker. If you haven't already, it's worth playing with the trimpots inside to get the most from this great pedal....
There, advert done

[stug]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='233441' date='Jul 6 2008, 02:28 AM']I dislike it. The blend knob has potential. Sansamp BDDI with blend at 11 o'clock and drive at 2 o'clock is todays favourite flavour of overdrive.[/quote]

As far as emulated tube OD goes, I'd certainly have to agree with this, except I have my blend a notch higher at 12. It's the best sounding solution for me so far, with the exception of buying an expensive tube amp.

[51m0n]

[quote name='El_JimBob' post='235374' date='Jul 8 2008, 11:23 PM']If you're using a Multicomp, Tubesim mode is a must for a bit of extra bite and 'girth' to the sound - also make sure you're not compressing the bass frequencies too much - this will actually make your tone thinner and weaker. If you haven't already, it's worth playing with the trimpots inside to get the most from this great pedal....
There, advert done [/quote]


Absolutely,hence in my post the very low ratio, but very low threshold to make the compression happen all the time, alot. Very different sound to higher ratio, higher threshold, which tends to squeeze the bass more IME & IMO

[cheddatom]

higher threshold and a higher ratio should be more subtle, like a limiter. I suppose it depends how high you mean by "high threshold" but if you set it to 1:infinity with the threshold so high that it only compresses the peaks, you can get a great sound.

I like compression blended with clean, running into a limiter.

[burno70]

My LMB-3 arrived from Ebay yesterday, had a quick mess with it last nite but will have to wait til the weekend to give it a good seeing to (ooo-err!) I did note though how crap the enhance effect is - that'll be left off I think.

Also need to have another look at the trim pots of me Multicomp too.

I'll see if I can pick up a Boss LS-2 on saturday as well and that will be the end of my splurge for now. Will wait till next month then may look for a low gain OD. I've got my eye on a Catalin Bread Hyperpak - would this count as a low gain OD?

[cheddatom]

no idea about the hyperpak but I would try the LS-2 blending the multicomp and clean, the output going into the LMB-3. The enhance is sh*t yeh. If you get it set right, you should hardly be able to tell it's on except for the fact that you'll be louder on average and there will be no "spikes".

[burno70]

Thanks Cheddatom you've bin well helpful.

[51m0n]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='236364' date='Jul 10 2008, 11:09 AM']higher threshold and a higher ratio should be more subtle, like a limiter. I suppose it depends how high you mean by "high threshold" but if you set it to 1:infinity with the threshold so high that it only compresses the peaks, you can get a great sound.

I like compression blended with clean, running into a limiter.[/quote]

OK by higher threshold I mean closer to 0dB (say -9dB to -15dB) as opposed to a lower threshold like -30dB.

So in my mind a high threshold causes the compressor to engage less often. Couple with a higher ratio (1:15 for instance) a higher threshold will engage at the peak of the note's initial attack on loud(er) attacks, with a longish attack and short release you tend to get that very obvious compression on slaps and pops that people associate with heavy compression. You dont need to lower the threshold as much for this to be very obvious compression. If you do lower the threshold too much with this type of ratio you end up rapidly choking the signal, especially the bass end.

On the other hand if you have a lower ratio (1:2 or 1:3 maybe, less than 1:5 anyways) and the same attack and release you need a much lower threshold before you really notice the compression (it will be working mind, just more subtly). Therefore you can use a much lower threshold and thats where you start to get that fattening up the sound type of compression happening. Very different from the above example, far more subtle to the untrained ear, totally different result in fact and much closer to what the OP wanted to do.

As always your ears are right, but it helps to have an idea of what you're going to hear too...

Edited July 14, 2008 by 51m0n

[cheddatom]

I know what you mean but.....

I should have specified that my recommendations are for a short attack on the compressor. The only reason you get that "very obvious compression on slaps and pops that people associate with heavy compression" is because of the long attack time. If you have practically 0ms attack , a fairly high threshold, and an extreme ratio, then you get a very subtle but very effective limiter.

As far as "phattening up your tone" I suppose a slow attack with a lighter ratio <1:5 and lower threshold would have a better effect.

The combination I was talking about would entail this - clean bass mixed with bass through standard compressor with medium attack and ratio, low threshold, and then the whole mix going through a limiter with 0 attack.

[51m0n]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='239024' date='Jul 14 2008, 11:29 AM']I know what you mean but.....

I should have specified that my recommendations are for a short attack on the compressor. The only reason you get that "very obvious compression on slaps and pops that people associate with heavy compression" is because of the long attack time. If you have practically 0ms attack , a fairly high threshold, and an extreme ratio, then you get a very subtle but very effective limiter.

As far as "phattening up your tone" I suppose a slow attack with a lighter ratio <1:5 and lower threshold would have a better effect.

The combination I was talking about would entail this - clean bass mixed with bass through standard compressor with medium attack and ratio, low threshold, and then the whole mix going through a limiter with 0 attack.[/quote]

Well yes you are setting up a compressor to act as close to a brick wall limiter as it can, threshold 0db, ratio max:1, attack short as possible (in a compressor that is still measured in ms, in a true brickwall limiter its often down in the nanosecond range), and a mid to long release.

That IMO should be hard to hear, unless the gain staging is wrong or you have a very obnoxious compressor.

Which is precisely what the OP was trying to avoid, all you are effectively doing is knocking of a tiny amount of the transient attack, fine for policing levels, not so good as an effect in itself. If your bass sounds fat as .... anyway it'll be fine, it wont help the OP at all. He really really doesn't need a limiter here, sorry.

I stand by what I said before to help the OP. And on the subject of attack and release times I think their effect on a sound are one of the most misunderstood areas of compression/limiting, so its important to clearly state where to go with them to help.

[cheddatom]

Yeh, I never actually suggested that using a limiter on it's own would help the OP in his quest for a "phat" tone.

[51m0n]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='239755' date='Jul 15 2008, 09:00 AM']Yeh, I never actually suggested that using a limiter on it's own would help the OP in his quest for a "phat" tone.[/quote]

Yeah true, you suggested a comp before that. Sorry to go on about it

Your suggestion of a shorter attack on the compression I would say ios a personal taste issue though, alot of the flavour of a compressor is its attack and how it engages, I like to get the punch at the beginning of a note through without the brightoness being afftected by the compressor. So I like a longer attack usually. If I were after a kind of smooth as butter super phat dark R&B tone I'd certainly shorten that attack though...

All I'm saying is that strictly speaking the limiter approach isnt going to fatten up the tone. Not trying to suggest its a bad idea (although I dont like limiting or maximising a live rig personally unless its absolutely necessary) for controlling unfriendly signal spikes at all though.

Edited July 15, 2008 by 51m0n

[umph]

[quote name='burno70' post='236455' date='Jul 10 2008, 01:01 PM']I've got my eye on a Catalin Bread Hyperpak - would this count as a low gain OD?[/quote]
in a word no. they're fairly full on

[cheddatom]

[quote name='51m0n' post='239817' date='Jul 15 2008, 10:43 AM']Yeah true, you suggested a comp before that. Sorry to go on about it

Your suggestion of a shorter attack on the compression I would say ios a personal taste issue though, alot of the flavour of a compressor is its attack and how it engages, I like to get the punch at the beginning of a note through without the brightoness being afftected by the compressor. So I like a longer attack usually. If I were after a kind of smooth as butter super phat dark R&B tone I'd certainly shorten that attack though...

All I'm saying is that strictly speaking the limiter approach isnt going to fatten up the tone. Not trying to suggest its a bad idea (although I dont like limiting or maximising a live rig personally unless its absolutely necessary) for controlling unfriendly signal spikes at all though.[/quote]

Heh, this is all getting a bit confusing. In relation to the OP, I posted

"I would suggest buying a good low gain OD pedal, boss ODB-3 or Marshal jackhammer or something similar, and put this in a blend loop at about 50%. Put a compressor with slow attack on your "clean" signal that you're blending with. Put a limiter after the the whole thing."

Yeh, a limiter on it's own wouldn't fatten a sound at all.

[51m0n]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='239847' date='Jul 15 2008, 11:16 AM']Heh, this is all getting a bit confusing. In relation to the OP, I posted

"I would suggest buying a good low gain OD pedal, boss ODB-3 or Marshal jackhammer or something similar, and put this in a blend loop at about 50%. Put a compressor with slow attack on your "clean" signal that you're blending with. Put a limiter after the the whole thing."

Yeh, a limiter on it's own wouldn't fatten a sound at all.[/quote]

I bet that can get pretty Billy Sheehan if you wind up the drive and blend it all nicely. If thats your poison....