Slapping (Help, please)

[parker_muse]

Here is a vid of me playing Master of Puppets on bass with slap, can i have a few pointers please?

There a few mistakes and some comedy gold at the end, courtesy of my mother not liking loud slap bass


Okay it wont upload


so... [url="http://Sun-Ji-Park.bebo.com"]http://Sun-Ji-Park.bebo.com[/url]


its my flash box


cheesr guys.

[mhuk]

[quote]Please Sign In to View this Profile[/quote]

[parker_muse]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSwpa7lFrVc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSwpa7lFrVc[/url]


Got it uploaded

[Josh]

Right man it depends if your looking to be quite profficient at slap, by which I mean being able to use it creativley and to be a major part of your own technique, or as some favor to do and that is be able to slap well but not to over-indulge by which I mean Mark King and Flea clones or as some like to say the Bed Room Youtube Bassists and in 70% of cases the term apllies quite well.

But anyways, there is no correct way to slap although the more professional way is by having your thumb more straight and not coming in at angle, think like your giving some a thumbs up, a straight arm, closed fist and your thumb being straight. But this is the way well known slap bassists like Marcus Miller and Mark King play and this way of slap is seen as the more correct way as opposed to Flea's, but some will favour that over the straight thumb approach.

Here are 2 video's for examples of the straight thumb approach:

(A good 80% or more of us on here have all seen this at one point)
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMzXtizKcXY"]Mark King[/url]

(You'll see a difference between the two, King is rather fast and at times is does get a bit the same, but Miller is very very soulful and uses the groove to its full extent)
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWg6iB0Evj0"]Marcus Miller[/url]

They're 2 different examples but show how the straight thumb approach is used, it's much more easier to play precisely and to feel the groove better this way, I know you might be thinking "Hmmm that looks odd" because I did when I first saw Mark King a few years ago but it did turn my slap playing around when I took note.

But also you might have noticed something else, they have their basses quite high, and that attributes to the way they play, and from looking at your strap in your video I can guess that you have it quite low, which isn't a bad thing because when your young you prefer to have it lower because it looks the part, trust me man most if not all of us have been there and some are still there which is perfectly fine, but in this case you might have to raise the strap height just to feel comfortable with trying it this way, and also you may find it helps imrpove your technique further also, but now you may think it looks geeky but when you look all the great bass players you'll notice that most if not all have their basses above the waist. One way I see it (In My Opinion) is that when I see a someone put on their bass and it's higher up I can easily assume that they know what their doing and a good 90% of the time I right, with the guy's I've taught they've taken in this one point and it has helped them improve greatly.

But back to slap, you really need to feel it, you need really whack hard with your thumb to great the best tone and when your strating it when your young it does hurt but you will get use to it. Where your slapping now is right, just on the last fret is the perfect place to get the right bounce to feel comfortable.

Right man, I hope all of that was to some degree of help, all of that is how I approach slapping, someone else on here will have a totally different approach towards it and that's perfectly fine but it's really your choice at the end of the day which way you choose to slap but just try not to end up becoming a copy, take the right amount of influence and then move on and carry on developing your own voice as a bassist.


Sorry if it's a tad too much man just trying to help

Edited June 28, 2007 by Josh

[lukeward2004]

Hi Parker_Muse,

The first thing I noticed was that your playing was out of time, and was speeding up and slowing down. The second thing I noticed about your playing was your technique, which I imagine will be a large part of the issue.

I will try to help where I can and please dont think im having a go at you or your playing - but you need to be honest with yourself about your playing to progress. I was in the same position ab out a year or so ago and I have spent a lot of time and daily practise improving my slap technique, and its only just getting there if im honest.

The first and most important thing you must do, whether playing slap or fingers or whatever, is to play IN TIME - if you dont it wont matter if you have the best technique in the world, it will still be crap. As bass players we have to be bang on the money for every beat, or we wont be doing our job properly.

Firstly, get yourself a Metronome, set it to a nice slow tempo (60-80 bpm) and ALWAYS play along with it when you practise - it will be hard and will show you how out of time your playing is, but it will improve your own sense of time and space within music and this is one of, if not THE most important things any bassist needs to learn.

Secondly, you need to look at your technique - I noticed that you had your thumb angled downwards, towards the floor, which is similar to how flea slaps but ultimately may not be right for you.

There is no right or wrong way to slap, merely your own personal preferace. I started off like you with my thumb angled down, but found that I had trouble keeping the slaps clean and round sounding, especially on the A to G strings. I spent a lot of time adjusting my position, playing with my bass virtually under my armpit and using my thumb angled upwards, ALA Mark King, but found I couldnt quite get the pops sounding right.

In the end I came to the conclusion that for me, I needed my bass at the same height standing up as it would be sitting down, so although it may not look "cool" to some, it meant that I could actually play comfortably with some conviction. I realised that by playing with my thumb angled in line with the strings, with a slight bend on the end, I was at my most comfortable.

Look at my playing position here:



Also, study other players, like Mark King, such as in this video:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jpcBq3EJNI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jpcBq3EJNI[/url]

Equally, have a look at Marcus Miller's playing position:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHdN_O5k3WM&mode=related&search="]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHdN_O5k3WM...ted&search=[/url]

I think the first thing you need to do is find a comfortable playing position, and play around until you find something that suits you. There are many different ways to play this style of bass, but you need to get comfortable before anything else.

The next thing you need to do is concentrate on how clean your slaps & pops are - start with a nice slow beat on the metronome, and start off just using your thumb - DO NOT RACE AHEAD, wait until you are 100% confident with your thumb and then start dropping in some pops and doublestops.

There are two fantastic resources that will help to no end - Ed Friedland's "Ultimate Slap Bass" DVD, which is the first port of call and will explain some of the points made so far in a more visual way, and secondly is a book by our very own Stuart Clayton, called "Ultimate Slap Bass" coincidently.

I would highly recommend buying both of these as they are very informative and have improved my slapping 10 fold since I started a year ago!

Hope this helps and if you are in my area im happy to show you a few things to get you started mate.

Luke

[Josh]

2 very similar posts I must say!

[lukeward2004]

[quote name='Josh' post='24235' date='Jun 28 2007, 01:00 AM']But back to slap, you really need to feel it, you need really whack hard with your thumb to great the best tone and when your strating it when your young it does hurt but you will get use to it. Where your slapping now is right, just on the last fret is the perfect place to get the right bounce to feel comfortable.[/quote]


I have to disagree with this point - you do not need to slap hard to get a good tone. This depends on the action of your bass - I find a nice low action and slapping over the heel of the neck gives me the best tone, but some, like Larry Graham, play nearer the bridge when slapping and thus the tone is slightly different.

If you have a high action then yes, you would probably need to play harder to get a good slap tone, but a nice low action means you dont need to hammer the living daylights out of your strings.

And if it hurts, its not doing you any favours - you may get some sore/tender bits on the side of your thumb until the calous develops, but if you experience pain in your arm, STOP - you could be doing more harm than good.

If you can, check out Ped's playing - hes a dirty slapper and he plays with a very low, slick action and doesnt hit the strings hard at all. Let the Volume do the work!

[Josh]

[quote name='lukeward2004' post='24377' date='Jun 28 2007, 12:38 PM']I have to disagree with this point - you do not need to slap hard to get a good tone. This depends on the action of your bass - I find a nice low action and slapping over the heel of the neck gives me the best tone, but some, like Larry Graham, play nearer the bridge when slapping and thus the tone is slightly different.

If you have a high action then yes, you would probably need to play harder to get a good slap tone, but a nice low action means you dont need to hammer the living daylights out of your strings.

And if it hurts, its not doing you any favours - you may get some sore/tender bits on the side of your thumb until the calous develops, but if you experience pain in your arm, STOP - you could be doing more harm than good.

If you can, check out Ped's playing - hes a dirty slapper and he plays with a very low, slick action and doesnt hit the strings hard at all. Let the Volume do the work![/quote]

Well I don't mean destroy your thumbs in the process, for instance Mark King is a hard hitter and has a very low action, I've played on Status and Jaydee basses set up to his exact spec (yes the owner is a bit of a fan) and when slapping with some extra force you get more bounce and the right feel and tone, for instance the slap groove in Hot Water as simple as it is is appraoched quite strongly to accent the bass drum beats and the snare shots as well.

But as I said man were all different players and we all approach stuff technique and what not differently, and by all means you are correct if it hurts then stop and just leave it for a day, but I did say in my post that you'll get use to it which is basically my way of saying blisters and callouses will form eventually.

Edited June 28, 2007 by Josh

[Steve Rickwood]

With regard to technique it depends on what you are playing; much of the level 42 stuff requires the thumb to be 'bouncing' and almost letting the string do the work. The angle of your thumb is less important than a clean execution (altho I've not seen the vid) - I graze the string with the edge of my thumb and bounce through to the string below as a resting place (the body if after the g or C string). But whether I'm playing thru the string or returning my thumb to strike again (its all in the wrist action as they say...) I try no avoid the heel of my hand catching the string and causing unessecary muting/harmonics. Unless, you require that! Fleas technique is largely governed by the height of which he wears the bass and utilises a different approach - ultimately, you need to be comfortable and relaxed, in order to sound comfortable and relaxed! And yeah, the proverbial slow practice etc is useful. It can only be sped up accurately once it has been controlled.
I reckon you should find a local tutor who has a good rep (not a guitarist doing bass on the side...) and solve the problem before you have to unlearn and relearn bad habits, which is like someone teaching you to ride a bike again from scratch! Bit easier than reading all this!

[parker_muse]

Thanks, your a lot of help.


I've had to teach myself everything, ive been playing a bit over a year and i just want to improve.


My strap isnt that long at all, i usually wear the basswith the strings at the bottom of my rib cage, maybe slightly lower *im 6 foot 2 so the strap may look big because of that*


And i tried the 'thumbs up' technique for a while when i started slap, i just wasn't comfortable at all with it.

[lukeward2004]

Buy yourself three things:

1 - A Metronome
2 - A copy of Ed Friedland's Ultimate Slap Bass DVD
3 - A copy of Stu Clayton's Ultimate Slap Bass Book

Then all you need is to put the time and effort in - job done.

[parker_muse]

Thanks, your a great help.

[Steve Rickwood]

Actually, yeah - Stu Hamm and Alex Sklarveski did some pretty decent tuition vids, altho it helps to see a good tutor. The biggest lesson I learnt was hammer-on dead notes with the fretting hand - after that it made a lot more sense. And someone pointed out about miller and flea clones...yeah - I watched Claypool and he was the only player who made me want to slap as he approached from a more interesting angle. Rob trujillo (now Metallica fame...) was also a bit of a demon, esp when combined with performance - dont forget the performance aspect. Musos are boring to watch. Work at both concepts.

good luck dude.

[ped]

First of all mate well done so far - looks like you are off to a great start. It was ages until I could slap like that.

I tend to play with the hand facing in the same way as you, thumb going accross the strings rather than at an angle to them. I have just found this position more natural and enables me to play with teh right hand side of my hand for muting and triplets which are hard to explain. Maybe I will make my own lil vid.

With a good low action there is no reason why you should have to play hard at all - if anything the transients produced by my slap are lower than a fingerstyle line. Your thumb should not hit the strings but merely glance them and bounce back. This will help you develop a much smoother and natural style which will sound much less 'forced' and 'stabby'. Two new terms there!

Remember, just as important as the slap is the pop. A tasty fingerstyle groove is livened up no end with the occasional 'pop'. I would say though as a completely random point that the ideal setup for a gauranteed great slap sound is if you can produce almost the same sound as popping your G string by slapping it lightly.

I have never checked out the books mentioned, but have watched videos by Pattituchi among others just to get me in the mood really. You can learn an awful lot just by watching someone. Can you get to any gigs or local basschatters and have a gawp?

Great start as I say mate. Keep at it.

[lukeward2004]

Ped actually has an interesting style of technique, whereby he uses his right hand entirely to pull off slapped triplets - however i tend to use the left hand slap method to do this....

[urb]

Just a real quick +1 on the light approach to slapping - this essential for many reasons Luke already outlined well - and yes Mark King may go for broke at the top of his solos but watch how he plays during a song - it takes a of stamina and precision to slap like that for 5 - 10 minutes and if he was bashing his bass full on he'd soon run out of steam.

Here's a Youtube link to Alex Car who works at the Bass Gallery - he's a great slap bassist and you can study his technique well from all his very cool clips - he's nailed this style perfectly:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/user/alexcar66"]http://www.youtube.com/user/alexcar66[/url]


Hope that helps - remeber practice makes perfect! Patience helps too

Mike

[The Funk]

From the tone of the thread I was worried the video might be complete cr*p.

For a year's playing that's pretty decent.

I can't add any more advice to all the good advice you've been given. All I can do is emphasise the importance of what they've already said:
Time-keeping - practice getting it more precise, in the way Luke and others have described above.

On the issue of right hand slap technique, there were two main discussions:
1. Hand placement (ie. thumb up v. thumb down)
2. Force

My advice on these two things would be to try out all the different things that people have suggested - that way you'll be able to figure out what sounds best to your ears and what works best for you. And then you'll be able to develop your own style. But if your time-keeping's bad, none of the rest matters.

[ngombe]

one small tip I have (from a Marcus Millar workshop) - try slapping just below the neck and compare the sound when you slap down onto the neck. You'll notice quite a change in sound - it's a lot deeper when you don't make contact with the neck, there's more of the fundamental and less harmonics.

Either way is fine, but it's worth listening to the difference and deciding which you like. MM hits the string below the neck for his sound but plenty of top players make contact around the last fret.

[alexclaber]

I used to slap like that. Used to practise Metallica stuff too. In fact my Mum used to holler at me in a similar manner - ah, it's like going back in time... My strap shortened over the years and my slap technique became more conventional, though I often like to slap further back towards the bridge a la Larry Graham (who I shall proclaim as The slap bassist to listen to, no unnecessary twiddles or flash there!)

Alex

[The Funk]

Come back to this thread in 3-6 months when you've worked on the things discussed, then we can talk about phrasing and left-hand technique.

[parker_muse]

Thanks guys, your all awesome


I was expecting to be flamed but your all giving constructive advice.


I'll record something with pops, it will be easier for you too see where i need to work on.


Thanks again,

Parker

[Josh]

[quote name='parker_muse' post='25068' date='Jun 29 2007, 07:16 PM']Thanks guys, your all awesome
I was expecting to be flamed but your all giving constructive advice.
I'll record something with pops, it will be easier for you too see where i need to work on.
Thanks again,

Parker[/quote]


Were here to help man!

Also its a smart move on asking on here for help becuase I've seen people put up videos of them playing asking for help on youtube and it usually backfires.

[parker_muse]

Okay, im recorded a line with more pops and shizz so you can see where i need to work on more clearly, just a few uploading problems.


Thanks,

Parker

[The Funk]

This is a good place to ask around, man. All the self-taught players picked up whatever advice they could from anyone willing to explain their approach.

[parker_muse]

Thats what i was hoping, i just want to develop as a player.


Still not uploading.