Your ideal cab?

[Phil Starr]

Keep all the suggestions coming in. You'll see by the time that it is late, so detailed responses will have to wait until tomorrow but there is plenty of food for thought here. We won't be able to do everything in a single design but we will be able to say what compromises we've made and why.

[Steff]

Alright you got me going lol

Just a little drawing of what I had in mind. Please pardon my French - I am no design specialist and those are my first attempts with paint.

The yellow would represent a grill

[url="http://www.mediafire.com/view/myfiles/#9kz3rla3xgej35m"]http://www.mediafire...9kz3rla3xgej35m[/url] - one 12 with additional routing of the sound to point the player.

[url="http://www.mediafire.com/view/myfiles/#47i1q1ejv21bd3t"]http://www.mediafire...47i1q1ejv21bd3t[/url] - two x12' or 10' where one points at the player. The front grill goes up the top to let's say half way

I don't know if any of that is actually realistic and possible to build but I would love to have better reference on stage without having 4 cabs.




How the heck do you post images here?

Edited January 12, 2014 by Steff

[6v6]

Great idea guys, looking forward to seeing (and building!) the results!

+1 on the 1x12 idea as a starting point - I'd like another 1x12 to stack on my existing DIY 1x12 cab so could build your design if the sensitivity and dimensions are compatible with the one I have (loaded with the Beyma SM212 which Phil Starr recommended)

Other ideas are
- Very small cab for home practice, tiny practice rooms or very small venues (really compact 1x10?)
- Something which sounds like an Ampeg 8x10 but much smaller. I've been considering trying a sealed vertical 3x10 build in an attempt to achieve this.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Steff' timestamp='1389493514' post='2334854']
Alright you got me going lol

Just a little drawing of what I had in mind. Please pardon my French - I am no design specialist and those are my first attempts with paint.

The yellow would represent a grill

[url="http://www.mediafire.com/view/myfiles/#9kz3rla3xgej35m"]http://www.mediafire...9kz3rla3xgej35m[/url] - one 12 with additional routing of the sound to point the player.

[url="http://www.mediafire.com/view/myfiles/#47i1q1ejv21bd3t"]http://www.mediafire...47i1q1ejv21bd3t[/url] - two x12' or 10' where one points at the player. The front grill goes up the top to let's say half way

I don't know if any of that is actually realistic and possible to build but I would love to have better reference on stage without having 4 cabs.




How the heck do you post images here?
[/quote] Would something similar to EAD's 112 design work?

[eddiehoffmann]

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1389451011' post='2334294']
The marketed is blanketed with super loud cabs and super full range cabs. Carve a niche by offering 'old-cab' sound in a tiny, lightweight package. Something midget-sized but 810e/nv610/k140 sounding please.
[/quote]

Exactly!

[Phil Starr]

OK to come clean part of the inspiration for this was 6V6's build. You can see it here [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/200152-1x12-diy-cab-build/"]http://basschat.co.u...-diy-cab-build/[/url] if you see the thread I gave him some advice and the rest he worked out himself. I have a similar cab myself and with both of us happy with the result I have the confidence to go ahead and recommend it to others. So apologies to 6V6 he'd be better off sticking with his own design.



So, the designs I am picking up so far are:

2x12, we'll include dimensions for this in our 1x12, for people who only want to make 1 trip to the car.

1x15 I'll probably do next

Vintage voiced/coloured cab we intend giving alternative driver recommendations for all our cabs together with any recommendations about modifications needed to make them work well. Some of these will have a 'modern' smooth voice and others a warmer more coloured voice, so you will make that choice.

Really compact practice cab You can see Lawrence is keen on that, so he will probably come up with something fairly quickly. I'm also playing around with some designs based on a 6" driver so that might come to fruition

Upright Bass cab, sadly my wife would probably kill me if I started to learn upright as well as waste all my time in the shed, but as a design challenge this looks really interesting and is completely new to me, I'd love to have a go but I'd need an upright player close to me to work with.

Then there's a few points I'm picking up about angled cabs, reggae cabs and cabs with deep bass extension. I'm toying with the idea of building a 'bright box' to get the sound to your ears which might be interesting, I have a couple of designs I'm mulling over. Designs for more specialist tastes I'd love to do but they will have to wait. We also have a problem with funding this. We can't develop cabs without the drivers to hand. This is fine if we are to use the cabs ourselves but I personally can't afford to buy stuff I can't use.

There's a load of other things you mentioned, Stevie and Lawrence have answered some of it. We'll write up a commentary to help others design their own cabs. I won't be making comparisons with anyone else's work/designs. It wouldn't be a good thing to do and we just want to do some technically competent designs that others can copy. If we get hate we won't respond that's their problem. I'm sure we will make mistakes and if people can correct them then it would be great to work with them. It's the joy of open source. We are deliberately starting off with simple designs, Stevie and Lawrence are keen to get on with multiway designs and they will come but I have no immediate plans for anything with a crossover, we'll see how it goes.

Hope this helps

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Steff' timestamp='1389489984' post='2334832']
I've missed that... Indeed it would be great to have a cab like that but then how well would it dispense in the venue if it's pointing at let's say 30-40 degrees up?

You got me thinking I would have loved to have a 2 or 3 speaker cab where 1 or 2 speakers are facing forward for the audience and one 10' is angled towards you.
[/quote]

Well my thinking is that if a cab has good dispersion of highs/mids to say 30 degrees off axis then your not losing much out front performance until you angle it up my more than that amount.

Edited January 12, 2014 by bassman7755

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1389520355' post='2334929']
We also have a problem with funding this. We can't develop cabs without the drivers to hand. This is fine if we are to use the cabs ourselves but I personally can't afford to buy stuff I can't use.
[/quote]

Setup some sort of donation page or something, there must surely be a few dozen basschatters who would stump up a tenner or so (Id certainly be up for it).

[LawrenceH]

Dispersion is something I consider very important for gigs in smaller spaces, especially where the bass rig is covering both the stage and the audience. Any two-way designs in particular will bear this in mind. For single-woofer one- and two-way cabs used alone on the floor, the need for increased but controlled vertical dispersion changes design approach. Who needs to hear the bass rig, and where are they in relation to it?

There is the issue of build complexity, and angled cabs add to this. I think initially we all want something that novice DIYers can have a go at, without it being too intimidating or requiring a big outlay on tools etc. But it may be possible to produce different variants once the basic design has been validated.

Edited January 12, 2014 by LawrenceH

[chris_b]

A cab that I'd buy would be:

12" (maybe 12" + 6")
Light (no more than 30lbs)
Front ported
Using the best componants

....and 2 would make me sound like this

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mFd_i1j2Sc[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tUlvTelQf8[/media]

[Myke]

I'd be interested in a 1x10 or 2x10 cab.

I'll keep an eye on it.

Good luck

[Steff]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1389518028' post='2334905']
Would something similar to EAD's 112 design work?
[/quote]

Yes mate but as someone mentioned it's gotta be flat to be able to support an amp on top, that's why I thought of a box with one straight, one facing about 40 degrees up but in a straight box.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Steff' timestamp='1389535471' post='2335164']
Yes mate but as someone mentioned it's gotta be flat to be able to support an amp on top, that's why I thought of a box with one straight, one facing about 40 degrees up but in a straight box.
[/quote] .... or something else to support the amp...

[Steff]

That's a good idea but I've got a fair bit of OCD and I won't be able to use it that way

[warwickhunt]

Love the idea of a 2x12 with vintage/coloured voicing but I'd want it to have an angled baffle; can't this be done but maintaining the 'external' casing as a rectangular prism? A cutaway in the top edge could be applied if the baffle angled back to the point where it might impede sound dispersion to the players ears but not so deep as to mean a standard flightcase wouldn't sit.
.

[Steff]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1389537143' post='2335201']
Love the idea of a 2x12 with vintage/coloured voicing but I'd want it to have an angled baffle; can't this be done but maintaining the 'external' casing as a rectangular prism? A cutaway in the top edge could be applied if the baffle angled back to the point where it might impede sound dispersion to the players ears but not so deep as to mean a standard flightcase wouldn't sit.
.
[/quote]

Something like that you mean - http://www.mediafire.com/view/myfiles/#47i1q1ejv21bd3t

I spend some time last night fooling around with paint

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Steff' timestamp='1389537286' post='2335206']
Something like that you mean - [url="http://www.mediafire.com/view/myfiles/#47i1q1ejv21bd3t"]http://www.mediafire...47i1q1ejv21bd3t[/url]
[/quote]

Possibly but I was thinking more along the lines of the whole baffle from top to bottom being angled back. If you had a cab with a pair of twelves vertically stacked (NOT off-set please), the cab might be about 30" and the top of the baffle could be set back 6". I say not off-set as that means you have the top driver closer to ear level, more importantly the cab width would be easy to manoeuvre through doorways. The volume could be gained by making the cab a smidgen deeper. I presently use a Berg AE212 and I think the aforementioned design changes would improve an already good cab.

[Steff]

If you mean something like this - http://www.mediafire.com/view/myfiles/#b77bobd7py32a1w

then it raises the question of covering the far end of the venue or possible issues with sound dispersion when on a raised stage

[Mog]

Design the best cab for metal \m/

Seriously though, fair play for taking this on and sharing it. It's gonna be an interesting watch. One suggestion I'd make would be having the 1x12 switchable between 8 and 4 ohms. Obviously the more components added will increase the overall cost but perhaps the final plans could have this as an option.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1389539019' post='2335233']
Design the best cab for metal \m/

Seriously though, fair play for taking this on and sharing it. It's gonna be an interesting watch. [b]One suggestion I'd make would be having the 1x12 switchable between 8 and 4 ohms.[/b] Obviously the more components added will increase the overall cost but perhaps the final plans could have this as an option.
[/quote] how? by having a dummy load in there?

[Musky]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1389539019' post='2335233']
Design the best cab for metal \m/

Seriously though, fair play for taking this on and sharing it. It's gonna be an interesting watch. One suggestion I'd make would be having the 1x12 switchable between 8 and 4 ohms. Obviously the more components added will increase the overall cost but perhaps the final plans could have this as an option.
[/quote]
A switchable cab would ultimately mean just adding some form of resistance to a 4 ohm cab, which would create more problems than it solved (i.e. heat) for no increase in volume. The only reason I could see for doing this would be if your amp didn't go to 8 ohms.

Impedance switching on cabs is just marketing nonsense IMHO.

[Mog]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1389539606' post='2335244']
how? by having a dummy load in there?
[/quote]

Dunno how its done but my Hydrive 112 has that option and its come in useful very often (see below)
[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1389539982' post='2335246']

A switchable cab would ultimately mean just adding some form of resistance to a 4 ohm cab, which would create more problems than it solved (i.e. heat) for no increase in volume. The only reason I could see for doing this would be if your amp didn't go to 8 ohms.

Impedance switching on cabs is just marketing nonsense IMHO.
[/quote]
(See above) I've used the impedance switching on my Hydrive 112 on a few occasions to get the full 500 watts out of the LH. Usually in mid sized venues without adequate monitoring.

[Musky]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1389540435' post='2335254']
Dunno how its done but my Hydrive 112 has that option and its come in useful very often (see below)

(See above) I've used the impedance switching on my Hydrive 112 on a few occasions to get the full 500 watts out of the LH. Usually in mid sized venues without adequate monitoring.
[/quote]
I knew someone had used twin coils for this. I don't know of any commercially available drivers that have this though, and even if they are available it's going to seriously cut down driver choice (possibly to one). It'll also affect TS specs. And you'll still probably be getting less than a 2db increase in volume.

[discreet]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1389537143' post='2335201']
...I'd want it to have an angled baffle; can't this be done but maintaining the 'external' casing as a rectangular prism?
[/quote]

There are one or two Schroeder cabs that have one of the drivers fitted to an angled baffle inside the regular cabinet, but I get the impression this is more to enable a smaller external cab size rather than to make it more audible to the player on stage - particularly as you'd need to use the cab on its side anyway. Not a bad idea in itself, though.



[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1389539982' post='2335246']
Impedance switching on cabs is just marketing nonsense IMHO.
[/quote]

Agreed. Accugroove's 'switchable impedance' cabs turned out to be not what they seemed...

Edited January 12, 2014 by discreet

[cattytown]

With a single conventional driver, you can't have any real switchable impedance.

AIUI the HyDrive is either two different voice coils - one at 4, one at 8 that you can select, or a bit like a centre tap on a transformer. Making it switchable would thus involve commissioning a special driver.

I consider it a dubious benefit. The only way I can come up with it being of benefit is buy amp and single cab. Run at 4ohm. At a later date, buy a second cab. Switch both to 8ohm and run in parallel.

Paul.