Trading across the Atlantic

[CPBass]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Hi folks,[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Looking for some customs / importing advice,[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Im in a situation where I'd want to trade a bass with a guy in Canada. As no cash is changing hands does this change the tax liability in any way?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Ive never traded outside the EU previously so this is new. My gut tells me that I'll be liable for the full duty, VAT and handling charges so Im hoping there is a knowledgable chap on here able to give me the key that makes this very nice trade possible.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Cheers[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Col[/font][/color]

[ambient]

Shipping costs have soared recently, I was gonna buy an Ibanez GWB1 from a guy on talk bass, the shipping (no insurance) was $450.

[CPBass]

i thought it was too much to expect it to work in my favour.

Thanks guys

[ambient]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1389533853' post='2335144']
Having just imported a Zon Sonus from a seller in NY, and had the bass shipped (hardcase/fully insured) for $240, your figure seems high.
[/quote]

That's the figure I was told, but it was from LA, so that's a few thousand miles more . It was with UPS.

[Dingus]

The cheapest way to ship from the U.S.A is to use the U.S Postal Service's Priority Mail International service. It usually cost less than $150 to ship a bass insured for $3500. They aren't the quickest, but they have always been the most economical way to ship packages, and I have found them to be just as reliable, or at least no less unreliable, than any of the commercial couriers. Maybe the O.P could try getting a quote from the equivalent Canadian postal service to ship this bass.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Dingus

[warwickhunt]

I thought USPS had a maximum length restriction? I'm sure I've looked into it in the past and with neck on, in a case, with box, it exceeded their max dimensions... they could have amended it of late mind.

[Dingus]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1389536141' post='2335181']
I thought USPS had a maximum length restriction? I'm sure I've looked into it in the past and with neck on, in a case, with box, it exceeded their max dimensions... they could have amended it of late mind.
[/quote]

I've used them since the mid-1980s with no such problems. The Priority Mail has different regulations than the even cheaper budget services, that may well have such restrictions. I have never dismantled a bass, or anything else for that matter, to ship it.

[Dingus]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1389537407' post='2335208']
USPS insurance only applies while the item is in the possession of USPS, which, in practice, means until the goods are loaded to its appointed air/sea carrier. The same scenario applies to items shipped with Royal Mail to destinations outside of the UK. You have to be careful with state postal services, particularly with insurance provision.
[/quote]

I've shipped five basses this last year, all fully insured and .as far as I know,USPS are partnered with the Royal Mail who are participants in a reciprocal agreement , and the insurance is valid up to the point of delivery in the U.K .I have never heard of any such a limitation in the cover , although there is a maximum limit of $5000 to the insurance value .

[CPBass]

I dont mind the shipping costs as such, they are a given.

What has ruined things for me is the added VAT on the item. Its an expensive bass and will cost a fortune.

[noelk27]

[quote name='Buzzardist' timestamp='1389538732' post='2335230']What has ruined things for me is the added VAT on the item. Its an expensive bass and will cost a fortune.[/quote]
You can base your valuation for tax purposes on the used "value" of the goods. That would certainly reduce the VAT liability, but it has a consequence for insurance valuation, in the event of damage or lose.

[Dingus]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1389542669' post='2335277']
Parcel Force is the UK appointed international receiver. Parcel Force's insurance categories specifically exclude musical instruments. USPS terms and conditions state, with respect to "value limits" "or a lesser amount as limited by country, content, or value". The value limit on cover for musical instruments in the UK is zero. Your goods, when entering Parcel Force's network carried no insurance, other than at the discretion of Parcel Force - usually limited to 100 times the value of a standard first class postage stamp (currently £0.60).
[/quote]

This is not so. The exclusion only applies in certain circumstances, and is circumvented by Parcel Force's contract with the U.S.P.S . If the U.S Postal Service accept the goods for shipping insurance then they are covered similarly on U.K soil .

By the same token, it is possible to insure musical instruments with Parcel Force to be shipped overseas if you use a shipping agent brokering Parcel Force's services who has their own insurance arrangements . I insured and sent a bass to the U.S.A using Parcel Force a few months ago using that option.

[warwickhunt]

I think the only problem with this talk of insurance is that you'd never truly be able to 'test' the T&C until you have an issue! I am aware from first hand experience that guitars/basses shipped via PF in the UK are not covered by insurance EVEN when you specifically pay an extra premium to cover the value AND you tell them it is a guitar.

[ambient]

If it's a very expensive instrument, it may be cheaper to fly and pick it up ?

Maybe split the flight costs 50/50 ?

You're taking a bass out and bringing one back, who's to know it's different one ?

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1389533075' post='2335129']
Shipping costs have soared recently, I was gonna buy an Ibanez GWB1 from a guy on talk bass, the shipping (no insurance) was $450.
[/quote]
It depends on who you use. I've done it recently for considerably less than that.

Even for the West Coast of the U.S. you could do it for half of that. It's all down to who you use.

Edited January 12, 2014 by BetaFunk

[yorks5stringer]

I'll fly over for you, just send me the ticket...!

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1389547508' post='2335365']
If it's a very expensive instrument, it may be cheaper to fly and pick it up ?

Maybe split the flight costs 50/50 ?

You're taking a bass out and bringing one back, who's to know it's different one ?


[/quote]
Because it's up to the person bringing it into the country to prove they didn't buy it outside the UK and are not trying to bring something into the country without paying duty on it. If you don't have a receipt that you bought it in the UK or proof you have already paid duty on it they can charge you duty on it. They people who work in customs are not stupid.

[Dingus]

It is indeed the VAT that makes buying abroad so expensive, but then again ,VAT makes buying good available in the U.K akin to sucking lemons, too. Blame the Tories. I do, and it makes me feel a little bit better. I blame them for so much more besides VAT , too.

[ambient]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1389548380' post='2335387']
Because it's up to the person bringing it into the country to prove they didn't buy it outside the UK and are not trying to bring something into the country without paying duty on it. If you don't have a receipt that you bought it in the UK or proof you have already paid duty on it they can charge you duty on it. They people who work in customs are not stupid.
[/quote]

I bought a bass from New York 5 or 6 years ago, can't remember the name of the shop, it was in Brooklyn. I paid for it before I went over and collected it.
The cheapest flight was via CDG in Paris, so flying back my flight into the UK was from CDG, no customs no VAT, just me very happy .

Just remembered, it was the Groove shop.

Edited January 12, 2014 by ambient

[ambient]

I met a guy a few years ago, he was an American living over here. He sent his brother the money for a beautiful Smith bass, and paid for his flight over as a holiday, his brother bought the bass over with him.

So another option is for the other guy to come over here.

It all depends on the values of the instruments, and the costs involved in shipping etc.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1389550022' post='2335424']
I bought a bass from New York 5 or 6 years ago, can't remember the name of the shop, it was in Brooklyn. I paid for it before I went over and collected it.
The cheapest flight was via CDG in Paris, so flying back my flight into the UK was from CDG, no customs no VAT, just me very happy .

Just remembered, it was the Groove shop.
[/quote]
I presume then that you didn't declare it or weren't stopped at customs. It has nothing to do with what i wrote.

People are stopped at customs all the time at British airports when entering from EU countries. Customs are also well aware that although you may have come from an EU airport they will know the route you have taken to get there from outside the EU. People bring items into the country all the time undeclared but i was stating what happens if customs search your luggage. As i said they are not stupid people but just too busy to stop everyone.

Edited January 12, 2014 by BetaFunk

[ambient]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1389550822' post='2335435']
I presume then that you didn't declare it or weren't stopped at customs. It has nothing to do with what i wrote.

People are stopped at customs all the time at British airports when entering from EU countries. Customs are also well aware that although you may have come from an EU airport they will know the route you have taken to get there from outside the EU. People bring items into the country all the time undeclared but i was stating what happens if customs search your luggage. As i said they are not stupid people but just too busy to stop everyone.
[/quote]

It has because it's a way that I circumvented the workings and avoided VAT and import duty. I didn't declare it, there were no customs people there, and I wasn't gonna go searching for one to declare it to.

I also avoided paying tax in the USA by paying for it before I went over .

If you have an instrument booked onto the flight as luggage, I doubt (but I'm probably wrong) that customs will bother interrogating you to check that the one you've come back with is the same one you went out with.

You could also insure the new one several weeks before you go, that way you'd have some paper work.

I don't have receipts for any of my basses, they were all bought 2nd hand. By your logic if I flew to the USA with one them, I'd end up paying tax and VAT on my return for a bass that I already owned.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1389551799' post='2335456']
I don't have receipts for any of my basses, they were all bought 2nd hand. By your logic if I flew to the USA with one them, I'd end up paying tax and VAT on my return for a bass that I already owned.
[/quote]
Yes, that could happen if you couldn't prove they were yours and customs thought that you have bought them outside the EU. It's up to you to prove otherwise. I'm not saying what can't be done but simply what is allowed. That's all. Have a look at the customs and excise laws of this country if you are really interested.