bassist_lewis Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 So, over Xmas and new year I've met up with family I only see when the moon is blue and the question of what I'm doing with my life inevitably comes up. My uncle asked, 'what's you're plan b' and implied I should stop pursuing music and get a real job so I can earn more money and have a "career", my mother has also spoken to (at?) me on a few occasions about getting a trade. I have no intent of pursuing another career right now, I'm 24 (and a 1/2), it's 4 years exactly since I decided to consciously be a musician and I've been earning increasing sums of money 3 and a 1/2 of those 4 years (mainly through weddings) and I honestly don't feel that I've allowed anywhere near enough time to think that my career is going nowhere. I'm asking those who changed their minds regarding a career in music when and why they made the decision, and if I'm just being stubborn about sticking to my guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussFM Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I didn't. A full time job just helps fund better gear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Never have. Perhaps that's why I'm a poor person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I never even considered a career in music. I've playing since I was a teenager, but it just never entered my mind. Does show how subjective it all is - we will have people wondering why we all turned our backs on our dreams and went off to be wage slaves. Takes all sorts, and BC is richer for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassist_lewis Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Just want to be clear, I'm not judging people that decided against it, as RussFM pointed out you can buy better gear more easily with a consistent salaried job - as well as pay for a car, ironically without which it's very difficult to make a living from music! I just see myself being a much happier making a living entirely or predominantly from music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Dreams have to be paid for though. I'd suggest it's all about independence. If you're truly independent then you can do as you wish and follow your dreams, for better or for worse, and no one else really has any right to question it. But if you're relying on someone else for a roof over your head and generally supporting your chosen 'lifestyle' in other ways, then you should be honest about the fact that they are subsidising your lifestyle. Of course, parents expect to support their kids, but there comes a time when the apron-strings should be cut. It would be interesting to know what people generally think that age should be. I'd ask the OP if he is able to fully support himself with his music career? It might be at the root of all the questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassist_lewis Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 It's about a 55/45 split this tax year in favour of my non-music job, I live in my own flat and receive no financial help from parents or spouses (I do use my girlfriend's car but we split insurance, tax, MOT etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1389563696' post='2335631'] It's about a 55/45 split this tax year in favour of my non-music job, I live in my own flat and receive no financial help from parents or spouses (I do use my girlfriend's car but we split insurance, tax, MOT etc) [/quote] Does you girlfriend ever see you at weekends? As you get more successful, the less you'll see of her at the weekends. Because that's when you make your money. In my experience it's the lack of a social life, outside music, that is the most difficult part of a professional music career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 One of my tutors said the other week, and it's something I agree wholeheartedly with. Being a musician isn't just 'something I do'. It's me, it's it's being me. I'd rather be a poor musician, but be a musician than do a real job where money is the incentive rather than music. Modern life is almost entirely money and consumerism focussed, and it's not something I aspire to. Sit on a tube train or a bus, or just walk down the street and you're bombarded with adverts by companies wanting you to spend money, or save money (by spending money with them), there's this new gotta have gadget or that gotta have holiday. I earn sufficient from what few gigs I do (I'm a full time student and used to do more, but have had to cut back), and I get a full student loan and grant. After uni I intend to teach music, and do more gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfionMmCGoU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfionMmCGoU[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I'm not sure that it's the right question, really (with respect, of course...). I'll illustrate, using myself as an (atypical..?) example...). I started playing at all at 16, when I started working. My interests at the time were cost accounting (yes, really..!), electronics, aircraft and music. Since then I've always been both involved with, occupied and employed by one or other of those interests. I've never taken a job in which I did not find any interest, and always maintained the others in parallel. In that sense, then, I've never had to give anything up, whichever of these subjects gave me my living. I've been lucky, surely, in always having had ample choice, too, regarding employment. If one has only one driving motivation (one string to one's bow...) there will often be times when one is somewhat less than optimum. Spreading one's interests widens the horizons; one can indeed, have a fine musical career, and a fine IT one. With only one 'motor', complete and permanent satisfaction is possible, of course, but much less certain. The rest is a matter of choices. If you wish to maintain your course, that's your prerogative; be aware, though, that the consequences are of your doing, and accept that. Go for it, if you want/need to, with all that that entails. If you have a second or third option, it would be, not only prudent, but more likely to achieve a satisfactory outcome, to expand your multiple talents. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Like we're taught at uni, there's more to a career in music than just playing. You have to have a portfolio approach to it, earning money from teaching, writing/composing, journalism, production work, arranging, live sound, studio engineering, organising gigs or open mic's or jam nights, as well as playing live and doing sessions. You have to be versatile at what you do, and treat things like sight reading and harmony knowledge as a skill, not as the work of the devil. The internet has actually made things easier. I did some sessions on bass, and recorded synths for a band in Bristol before Christmas, without leaving the house. You can teach students via the internet too. Ultimately though, it's all music . Edited January 12, 2014 by ambient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I stopped wanting to "make it" in 1991, at the age of 25. This was because I had just been in two bands which wanted to make it, and I`d decided that working with people wanting to make it was just a pain. I now realise it was the individuals concerned that I just couldn`t work with, and was happier being mates with them than band-mates. Additionally at this time I realised that music was what I did for fun and trying to make it, which included a lot of things that went against my punky-at-the-time-principles, was taking all the fun away from it. I didn`t play, or even buy any music for about 4 years after 1991. Instead I just went to the pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1389564810' post='2335656'] Like we're taught at uni, there's more to a career in music than just playing. You have to have a portfolio approach to it, earning money from teaching, writing/composing, journalism, production work, arranging, live sound, studio engineering, organising gigs or open mic's or jam nights, as well as playing live and doing sessions. You have to be versatile at what you do, and treat things like sight reading and harmony knowledge as a skill, not as the work of the devil. The internet has actually made things easier. I did some sessions on bass, and recorded synths for a band in Bristol before Christmas, without leaving the house. You can teach students via the internet too. Ultimately though, it's all music . [/quote] The most important thing you learn at uni is that your tutors preach this at you and when you leave you'll realise it's all total nonsense because there's only ONE rule that gets you a career in music; It's not what you know, it's who you know I've had friends who could put world famous professionals to shame but live with their parents trying to scrape together a living as a 'professional' musician (one/two functions a week) and I know guys who were nowhere near that standard (one who didn't even ever study music) who is now touring the world playing arenas to thousands, purely down to being friends with the 'right' people. It's entirely down to luck. If you're lucky enough to know the right person at the right time and get dragged along for the ride, good for you but thousands of hours in the practice room isn't going to get you the job, it just makes you ready for it if you're lucky enough to get the chance! Edited January 12, 2014 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I think people go through a crisis in their mid to late 20s over this, I know I did. I busted a gut from my teens until I was 2 trying to "make it". For me I got married and felt pressure from me to grow up. I'd done all the gig bookings, flyers, promotion etc and all my bandmates had houses and better jobs. I stopped for 5 years where I got both a house and a better job. I started playing for fun again at 32yrs old. Over the last 8yrs this fun has seen me sign an Indie deal, get primetime US TV coverage of the band, international radio play, tour the country and get rave reviews in the UK National music press for the last two albums. I think concentrating on my playing and having fun helped me much more than trying to make it. For me at least. I don't expect I'll ever make a full time living from it (2 bandmates do due to teaching & session work) but I'm happier with where I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1389565494' post='2335665']...there's only ONE rule that gets you a career in music; It's not what you know, it's who you know...[/quote] Now this, I would contradict. If you mean by 'career in music', pop star, roaming the world in a jet, you may well be right, but I would maintain that there are far more healthy, satisfying and viable careers to be had in music than that. Teaching, orchestral pit work, studio sessions, sound engineers, producers... The list is long. Pop stars are only a tiny, highly visible, tip of the iceberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 First: never, ever listen to parents and the likes if their ideas about your life seem to be about steady incomes and security and that kind of stuff. You'll always regret later. Then it's better to have tried and to have been proven wrong. I don't know whether my reasons are interesting to you, but just in case: The choice to not pursue a career in music took almost two years to make, as a joint decision between me and my wife. She'd accepted becoming a musician's wife, so that element was not involved, and we lived off my income as a musician for some three years. But we'd moved from the culture city of Rotterdam to a rural area in Norway, and found life there was better. My music career would demand moving to Oslo - another "big" city. We decided the totally of living ruraly was worth giving up a music career for. We loved the notion that walking in the forests or swimming in the sea were options that cost no money, and were right at our doorsteps. Oslo would mean using money for the tram, bus, museum, concert .... whatever. Another aspect was of more psychological nature. I feared my being a composer would reduce me as a husband or father. I've known "all my life" that if I met a nice girl, I'd probably have to give up a career in art - even if not giving up a career in music. I trust this doesn't go for most people, but I do believe it was a valid point in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I never really wanted - or tried - to "make it" in music, I just loved the sound of the bass and it's role. By pure chance I did end up working on the very fringe of music for several years & have always taken an interest in it's machinations. I do love my job, but what I've seen of the music industry it is as cynical & snotty as it was in the 60s, leaving many who have "made it" either in front of or behind the scenes the same way or disillusioned. Good luck - sincerely - to the OP though, at whatever role and level you aim for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389565834' post='2335679'] Now this, I would contradict. If you mean by 'career in music', pop star, roaming the world in a jet, you may well be right, but I would maintain that there are far more healthy, satisfying and viable careers to be had in music than that. Teaching, orchestral pit work, studio sessions, sound engineers, producers... The list is long. Pop stars are only a tiny, highly visible, tip of the iceberg. [/quote] In the absence of a like button . The first day at uni we were told that we were actually sitting beside the most important person. Classmates and fellow musicians, networking. I did 4 evenings and a matinee at Birmingham rep four years ago through a drummer friend, and I did 2 months on a cruse ship around the med thanks to a guy at a music shop, who recommended me to a fellow bass player, who recommended me to the bandleader. Through that I got gigs from the 2 keys players that I played with on the ship. It goes on like that, spreading. I gave up on the idea of being a pop star when I was about 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1389566131' post='2335682'] First: never, ever listen to parents and the likes if their ideas about your life seem to be about steady incomes and security and that kind of stuff. You'll always regret later. Then it's better to have tried and to have been proven wrong. I don't know whether my reasons are interesting to you, but just in case: The choice to not pursue a career in music took almost two years to make, as a joint decision between me and my wife. She'd accepted becoming a musician's wife, so that element was not involved, and we lived off my income as a musician for some three years. But we'd moved from the culture city of Rotterdam to a rural area in Norway, and found life there was better. My music career would demand moving to Oslo - another "big" city. We decided the totally of living ruraly was worth giving up a music career for. We loved the notion that walking in the forests or swimming in the sea were options that cost no money, and were right at our doorsteps. Oslo would mean using money for the tram, bus, museum, concert .... whatever. Another aspect was of more psychological nature. I feared my being a composer would reduce me as a husband or father. I've known "all my life" that if I met a nice girl, I'd probably have to give up a career in art - even if not giving up a career in music. I trust this doesn't go for most people, but I do believe it was a valid point in my case. [/quote] Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1389566217' post='2335684'] I did 4 evenings and a matinee at Birmingham rep four years ago through a drummer friend, and I did 2 months on a cruse ship around the med thanks to a guy at a music shop, who recommended me to a fellow bass player, who recommended me to the bandleader. Through that I got gigs from the 2 keys players that I played with on the ship. It goes on like that, spreading. I gave up on the idea of being a pop star when I was about 20. [/quote] These examples above (& thousands more like them) are the reasons I'd never want to be a professional musician - it really does sound like hell on earth to me. I've never enjoyed playing enough that I'd play anything just to pay the bills. I've known a couple of fantastic musicians who worked in studios, did theatre work etc. for years & just became so unhappy with music they may as well have been working in a factory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1389566875' post='2335691'] These examples above (& thousands more like them) are the reasons I'd never want to be a professional musician - it really does sound like hell on earth to me. I've never enjoyed playing enough that I'd play anything just to pay the bills. I've known a couple of fantastic musicians who worked in studios, did theatre work etc. for years & just became so unhappy with music they may as well have been working in a factory. [/quote] I don't. The theatre gig was amazing, I'd like to do west end stuff at some time. I got paid £400 a week, played three 40 minute sets 5 nights a week, I could eat what I wanted 24 hours a day and got to see some amazing places that I'd never been to, how can that be hell ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1389566348' post='2335686'] Great post. [/quote] Thank you, good sir! Surprising, but much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 [quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1389568892' post='2335724'] Thank you, good sir! Surprising, but much appreciated. [/quote] I'm sure I would have made exactly the same choices had I been fortunate enough to be in your position. Unlike being a professional musician, living in rural Norway sounds very much like my idea of heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389565834' post='2335679'] Now this, I would contradict. If you mean by 'career in music', pop star, roaming the world in a jet, you may well be right, but I would maintain that there are far more healthy, satisfying and viable careers to be had in music than that. Teaching, orchestral pit work, studio sessions, sound engineers, producers... The list is long. Pop stars are only a tiny, highly visible, tip of the iceberg. [/quote] The same goes for that kind of work too. The last three bits of pit work ice done have been as a result of the ensemble needing a a bassist and I knew (in this case) the drummer. On paper, a recent music graduate with hours of practice a day should be perfect for the job but I got the call first because firstly I'm capable of doing it (but so are hundreds of bass players in the area) but mainly because I'm friendly with the right people. The reason I got to tour Europe with my last band was because the previous bassist left and i had been good friends with the drummer, so rather than auditioning and seeing lots of other capable bassists and choosing the best, I got a call that was basically '*drummer friend* put in a good word so if you want the job, it's yours' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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