ubassman Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) The technical things I want to get under my belt usually come out of struggling in parts of the music that I need to learn. To unravel problems , I use the 'whole/ part/ whole' method where I look at the [b]whole[/b] piece of music, look at the technical [b]part[/b] that needs the work , have a good think about what the issues are and develop it outside of the music with some related exercises, and then re-insert the finished product back into the [b]whole[/b]. What I find really fascinating to figure out is the detail of why the dots dont 'flow' in the first instance when I trying to learn certain passages. Usually it isn't about note bashing and committing to memory but is 99% of the time due to something entirely unrelated such as poor hand shape, ropey right hand technique, dodgy fingering, shifting etc, etc. Figuring out the detail is always the hard part but also the most rewarding! Anyone else set themselves goals about their playing and how do you go about improving technique? Edited January 13, 2014 by ubassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I normally go for the try/swear a little/sleep on it/try/swear a lot/try/try/try technique. Sometimes the end result is success. Other times I just abandon ship... On a serious note, your post was really interesting ubassman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 [quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1389616210' post='2336076'] I normally go for the try/swear a little/sleep on it/try/swear a lot/try/try/try technique. [/quote] ...oh I use that technique a lot too Rabbie ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 In order to learn diffiult passages, I play them again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I have a 'trick' gleaned from amateur theatrics... I will learn a piece, piece by piece, backwards. That's to say, I'll choose a 'chunk' at the end (maybe a line or two, or a page...). I'll get that down 'pat'. I'll add a second 'chunk' immediately preceding. In mastering this, I'll continue naturally into the ending, which I have already done. Once these two under my belt, on the the preceding chunk... Rinse and repeat until all is done. Each time, one is moving into one's 'comfort zone', and repeating more and more towards the end of the whole piece. This means being increasingly confident as the piece progresses. Works for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owencf Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 This is pretty much what my Tutor says. [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1389625695' post='2336228'] In order to learn diffiult passages, I play them again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. [/quote] But sometimes there is a little rest and a movie then back to the Bass shaped grind stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsyjazzer Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 In reply to Bilbo & Owencf posts----Yep!--that's me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo1978 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389627648' post='2336268'] I have a 'trick' gleaned from amateur theatrics... I will learn a piece, piece by piece, backwards. That's to say, I'll choose a 'chunk' at the end (maybe a line or two, or a page...). I'll get that down 'pat'. I'll add a second 'chunk' immediately preceding. In mastering this, I'll continue naturally into the ending, which I have already done. Once these two under my belt, on the the preceding chunk... Rinse and repeat until all is done. Each time, one is moving into one's 'comfort zone', and repeating more and more towards the end of the whole piece. This means being increasingly confident as the piece progresses. Works for me... [/quote] That really makes sense! Thanks Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 [quote name='timbo1978' timestamp='1389643886' post='2336531'] That really makes sense! Thanks Dad3353 [/quote] [URL=http://www.smileyvault.com/][IMG]http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/CBSA/smileyvault-cute-big-smiley-animated-041.gif[/IMG][/URL] You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 [quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1389600526' post='2335857'] The technical things I want to get under my belt usually come out of struggling in parts of the music that I need to learn. To unravel problems , I use the 'whole/ part/ whole' method where I look at the [b]whole[/b] piece of music, look at the technical [b]part[/b] that needs the work , have a good think about what the issues are and develop it outside of the music with some related exercises, and then re-insert the finished product back into the [b]whole[/b]. What I find really fascinating to figure out is the detail of why the dots dont 'flow' in the first instance when I trying to learn certain passages. Usually it isn't about note bashing and committing to memory but is 99% of the time due to something entirely unrelated such as poor hand shape, ropey right hand technique, dodgy fingering, shifting etc, etc. Figuring out the detail is always the hard part but also the most rewarding! Anyone else set themselves goals about their playing and how do you go about improving technique? [/quote] Reading music is like reading words. When something simple and common (like a dotted crochet to quaver rhythm) crops up we recognise it and how to play it immediately but more complex passages we have to step through slowly (like trying to read a complex word like 'achaenocarp'). You automatically have to break up the information into smaller chunks which slows you down and ruins the flow. The best thing to do (as Bilbo mentioned) is to just read/consume as much music as you can and add to the music vocabulary you have and it'll help when more obscure passages or parts crop up :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1389647359' post='2336603'] The best thing to do (as Bilbo mentioned) is to just read/consume as much music as you can and add to the music vocabulary you have and it'll help when more obscure passages or parts crop up :-) [/quote] Good advice ...you cant have too wide a musical vocabulary. Where I am more coming at this from is that when the notes are easy its because they fall under the fingers naturally . The passages which dont sink in and dont feel right I play around with technique trying different finger shifts, positions, speed of the bow, forearm position , etc The brain almost refuses memorise awkward and over complex movements and I know for me at least , if I keep bashing away it just doesnt get any better. Thats when I focus on addressing something technique related and do my whole/ part/ whole thing. As an example I was working through a tricky string crossing passage from the Scherzo of Beethoven 3 for maybe half an hour but no matter how many times I played the passage it just didnt feel right until I played around with some simple changes . Different fingerings, trying rising up the string, playing the same notes in different position, different crossings - none of those worked . But when I changed flattening out the double stop with one finger bridging to a fast 'single finger hop' across the strings everything went into straight to memory. Its more of a technical vocabulary than a musical one which helped out here but both are relevant. Edited January 14, 2014 by ubassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think there is a lot to be said for trying different fingerings etc. For years, I struggled with the main bass riff on Tubular Bells (the one behind the developing list of instruments). I could play it but is felt clunky. I saw Oldfield playing it on a documentary recently and realised my problem wasn't the line, it was my fingering choice. I picked up a bass and could play it immediately, without the hiccups. Some fingering patterns just flow better on some lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1389695649' post='2336920'] I think there is a lot to be said for trying different fingerings etc. For years, I struggled with the main bass riff on Tubular Bells (the one behind the developing list of instruments). I could play it but is felt clunky. I saw Oldfield playing it on a documentary recently and realised my problem wasn't the line, it was my fingering choice. I picked up a bass and could play it immediately, without the hiccups. Some fingering patterns just flow better on some lines. [/quote] Never would've had that problem with TAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 [quote name='Hector' timestamp='1389696946' post='2336931'] Never would've had that problem with TAB [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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