Bilbo Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I did a gig last night with some great players, really top drawer, and, to my ears, it wasn't swinging at all. Nothing I did would make it work for me and I hated the gig. The audience was happy, the other musicians were up-beat but, for me, it was a bummer. I listened back to a recording I made of the gig (1st set) this morning and its fine; not the best gig ever or anything but the basics are certainly all there and it swings just fine. What was that all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Adams Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Down to you brother..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyf Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I've found it occasionally happens like that. Really positive reactions from the other musicians and the audience but you know it's not right. Having had that distance of a nights sleep and a fresh listen to the recording, maybe it's time to just accept that whilst the planets weren't aligned last night, you'd done the business and got the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) [quote name='tonyf' timestamp='1389609168' post='2335967'] I've found it occasionally happens like that. Really positive reactions from the other musicians and the audience but you know it's not right. [/quote] Well lets turn that around - if you played something that you really thought was cool and saw your band mates wince and even a few audience members raise an eyebrow, would you still assume your own judgment of what you played was beyond question ?. I would say that if everyone liked what you played except you then the problem is perception and not reality - maybe a temporary cognitive disconnect like when you say any common word over and over for 30 seconds or so over and over you start to hear it as just random sounds without meaning and even that its somehow "wrong". Edited January 13, 2014 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 The thing I find with music is that "Frame of Mind" has so much to do with it. You can do exactly the same thing repeatedly and sometimes it feels great and other times it doesn't. The problem is (for me anyway) that if I don't feel its working it I start worrying and thinking "What's" wrong, and before I know it it really is going wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I think we all get days and gigs like that. Don't know why, all I've learnt is to go with the flow and battle through. You may not have thought it was great at the time but if the public like it then you and the band have done your job. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Judging by some of your previous posts, Bilbo, you like to get things right. That's fine but remember perfection is not perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) IME Live or in the studio, musicians can be the worst judges of their own performance. One man's "loose and scrappy" can be another man's "nice, relaxed vibe". And one man's "tight, and right in the pocket" can be another man's "sterile, and lacking feel". To answer the question: It's very common. Probably all of us judge the [b]entire[/b] band's performance on our [b]personal[/b] enjoyment of the gig. Your head probably wasn't in the right place. And once you let the slightest negativity in to your head, then (most likely) the rest of the gig is doomed (at least in [b]your[/b] head). It's very difficult, once that negativity is there, to turn it around. Another factor: Tiredness can be the worst thing for a gig. "Am I locking in with the drums?" "Am I ahead of the beat?" "Am I behind the beat?" The lack of sleep, and the resulting disorientation has probably been the single most common factor in my lack of gig enjoyment. It's also worth remembering that (providing we have no major trauma going on in our life, and barring technical issues) our individual performance probably varies by about 5% from what we consider a poor performance to a good one. Edited January 13, 2014 by SteveK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyd Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 You're probably at a level of consistency with your playing that you still played well even though you weren't "feeling it" on the night. This is a good thing I think....Whereas when I think the music I'm playing is crap, that's because it usually is It could have also been that the sound that you were hearing on the stage wasn't great for some reason, which made it sound like the music wasn't hanging together, even thought it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1389607880' post='2335945'] I did a gig last night with some great players, really top drawer, and, to my ears, it wasn't swinging at all. Nothing I did would make it work for me and I hated the gig. The audience was happy, the other musicians were up-beat but, for me, it was a bummer. I listened back to a recording I made of the gig (1st set) this morning and its fine; not the best gig ever or anything but the basics are certainly all there and it swings just fine. What was that all about? [/quote] Your far more competent than me, so I dare not comment, but can ask was it a drummer your not used to playing with ? Edited January 13, 2014 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Not at all. The drummer is the best I know and I love playing with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 You just weren't feeling it. It was an off day. You know like those days when you listen to a recording you've listened to a hundred times but it seems oddly slower than usual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1389607880' post='2335945']What was that all about?[/quote] When I was at art college a tutor told me that doing it for a living was entirely different to doing it for enjoyment. The skills had "to be turned on and off like a tap". I've done a few jobs which were entirely acceptable or better even if I wasn't "in the mood" - I suppose must have turned on the tap; but I still get more stoked when I feel "in the zone" and it just flows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1389657474' post='2336760'] When I was at art college a tutor told me that doing it for a living was entirely different to doing it for enjoyment. The skills had "to be turned on and off like a tap". [/quote] I've never heard of skills having "to be turned on and off like a tap" before . What you do realise very early on in your career though, is - people have paid good money and (in some cases) travelled a long way to see and hear you perform - you owe it to them to give 100%, or as near as you can muster on the night. In our case, any form of negativity in the dressing room before a show is a "no, no"! This means 1/2 hour before showtime any friends and relatives are asked to leave the backstage area - band and crew only! 1/2 hour before the show, we have what has become known as "Cockney O'clock" (don't ask) - an outsider witnessing "Cockney O'clock" would seriously wonder about the sanity of those about to hit the stage... it works for us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1389612518' post='2336019'] Well lets turn that around - if you played something that you really thought was cool and saw your band mates wince and even a few audience members raise an eyebrow, would you still assume your own judgment of what you played was beyond question ?. [/quote] This is interesting. Maybe we're just easier to convince that we are crap at something than to convince we are good at something. I know it's certainly true for me (sometimes). If I feel I've made a bad job of something, nothing anybody says will make it right for me. If I feel I've done a good job, and somebody comes along and points out what's wrong, I feel that I've actually fooled myself and given myself an inflated ego, probably prematurely (ooo err missus). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopsdabassist Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Christmas gig we did, I hated it front start to finish, nothing felt right, I perceived the looks going round the band to be those of worry. Post gig, crowd loved us, landlord payed us over the odds cos he was so happy, band were all smiles, no one could cite any issues, I had a list a mile long, maybe it IS just us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krysh Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 it's good that you are so sensitive about your playing. that's why you are who you are. some days are just better than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) John Cage said: Creativity and analysis do not belong in the same process... Think less while you're playing, as your analysis after the event (which was done correctly) proved that attempting to do it during the process (incorrectly according to Cage) turned out not only to be inappropriately timed but also wrong... There's a lesson in there bud Edited January 14, 2014 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 [quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1389659688' post='2336779'] I've never heard of skills having "to be turned on and off like a tap" before . What you do realise very early on in your career though, is - people have paid good money and (in some cases) travelled a long way to see and hear you perform - you owe it to them to give 100%, or as near as you can muster on the night. In our case, any form of negativity in the dressing room before a show is a "no, no"! This means 1/2 hour before showtime any friends and relatives are asked to leave the backstage area - band and crew only! 1/2 hour before the show, we have what has become known as "Cockney O'clock" (don't ask) - an outsider witnessing "Cockney O'clock" would seriously wonder about the sanity of those about to hit the stage... it works for us [/quote] I wish for a 'like' button for this... some of the studio moments I've had resemble monty python performed by seals on acid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Last night, I found another mp3 I hadn't listened to since the gig (months ago). That was also better than I remember. I guess, as a player, you are hearing what it isn't whereas, as a listener, you are just hearing what it is. I get the difference between analysis and creativity but, when you are playing, you have to analyse your sound etc, surely, in order to ensure it is the best it can be? Maybe we should have soundchecked a bit longer (always difficult in an open bar). I think it was the sound more than anything. I hold the view that the swing is in the sound as much as anything and, if that isn't right..... Anyway, I get to do it all again this Sunday. With Art Themen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) [quote] I guess, as a player, you are hearing what it isn't whereas, as a listener, you are just hearing what it is [/quote] I have a theory that we have limited perceptive bandwidth and so we hear things fundamentally different when were playing and when were are not, and when playing I find that my perception of what I'm playing and my sound is affected by things like if I'm looking at my hands or looking at the speaker cab. As human beings we tend to dramatically over estimate their own ability to objectively perceive and reason. I suggest checking out some of the resources below. Perception: [url="http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/what-we-hear.html"]http://nwavguy.blogs...at-we-hear.html[/url] - in particular these videos: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ[/media] Reasoning: [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Predictably-Irrational-Hidden-Forces-Decisions/dp/0007256531"]http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/0007256531[/url] [quote] That was also better than I remember. [/quote] [url="http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/1851689397"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/You-Are-Not-So-Smart/dp/1851689397[/url] Edited January 14, 2014 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1389698054' post='2336939'] I have a theory that we have limited perceptive bandwidth and so we hear things fundamentally different when were playing and when were are not, and when playing I find that my perception of what I'm playing and my sound is affected by things like if I'm looking at my hands or looking at the speaker cab. As human beings we tend to dramatically over estimate their own ability to objectively perceive and reason. I suggest checking out some of the resources below. ... [/quote] You're right. That's a prime example of why its a waste of time spending hours getting tunes 'exactly like the original'. The audience have already decided what they're going to hear. Many gigs I've not enjoyed and thought I could have played better but everyone else has had a great time. Usually I can trace them back to something that happened previous to the gig. I think the comment above about being able to 'switch it on' is more about being able to zone out all the other rubbish happening in your life and focus on the job you're doing. Many times I've been thinking about what curry to have after the show while playing Mustang Sally. I think they call that phoning it in. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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