Nitrocellulose - Worth the hassle?

[Musicman20]

I've always been a fan of the large semi-hollow basses and guitars, such as the Gibson E335 shape/etc, and I've recently been craving a very thuddy 'upright-meets-bass-guitar' type tone from a bass with a fat neck pickup strung with flats.

I've been looking at new Gibson basses, and they mainly seem to be finished in nitro.

Being how I am, this might not be a wise move! Some players love the checking/wear, and whilst honest wear is fine with me, I'm not sure I could be doing with having to put dusters on stands/not opening the case after its been outside for a while.

I do not think checking looks good!

Just how fragile is it??!

Thanks

Edited January 15, 2014 by Musicman20

[Mr Fretbuzz]

Check out the Warwick Pro Star Bass. I tried the Midtown but preferred the Warwick. It's lovely :-)

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Mr Fretbuzz' timestamp='1389790036' post='2337880']
Check out the Warwick Pro Star Bass. I tried the Midtown but preferred the Warwick. It's lovely :-)
[/quote]

I was going to get one of the sale ones off Thomann but they sold out

[Alfie]

I don't know if Gibson is the same as Fender when it comes to nitrocellulose , but Fender "nitrocellulose finishes" are just a top coat with a polyester base. Not that fragile.

[yorks5stringer]

Loving my Warwick Star Bass.....!

[DaytonaRik]

Never owned a Gibson bass BUT - I've never had a single problem with the finish on a very heavily gigged Les Paul - it looked as good as the day I bought it when it sold...see below

[cytania]

Aren't alot of modern Gibsons a nitrocellulose finish on a polyester main coat also?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='cytania' timestamp='1389805378' post='2338116']
Aren't alot of modern Gibsons a nitrocellulose finish on a polyester main coat also?
[/quote]

Apparently not....nitro base and nitro top coat...if that's technically the right way to say it.

[Highfox]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1389791915' post='2337914']
I was going to get one of the sale ones off Thomann but they sold out
[/quote]

Yes, they don't do the pro version anymore
I have been thinking about the Rockbass version, but not sure they are worth the asking from new? If I could find a pro version used or new at decent price I think I'd go for it
sorry for the hijack MM

[njr911]

I have a couple of mid 90's gibsons (335 and hummingbird) left in the sun and athough treated with car they arn't babied. No issues with fading, cecking or any other Fender nitro caricteristics.

Maybe they are poly finishes, if so then ignore me

#notalotofhelp

[cytania]

All a bit muddy really, some Gibson fans say their nitro isn 't really nitro, there was a pic with al the finish stripped off a Les Paul, quite alot of paint but it looks like I was wrong about the poly base coat. Gibson now make quite a thing of their nitro finish on the website.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-967799.html

[yorks5stringer]

[quote name='Highfox' timestamp='1389806167' post='2338122']
Yes, they don't do the pro version anymore
I have been thinking about the Rockbass version, but not sure they are worth the asking from new? If I could find a pro version used or new at decent price I think I'd go for it
sorry for the hijack MM
[/quote]

£660 for a 4 string. Mine was the last of the Koreans and I've not had such a flawless finish on a Bass new before.

[Highfox]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1389825341' post='2338464']
£660 for a 4 string. Mine was the last of the Koreans and I've not had such a flawless finish on a Bass new before.
[/quote]

I think I'd be all over that as well.
Guess I discovered them too late.

[henry norton]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1389789797' post='2337874']
I've always been a fan of the large semi-hollow basses and guitars, such as the Gibson E335 shape/etc, and I've recently been craving a very thuddy 'upright-meets-bass-guitar' type tone from a bass with a fat neck pickup strung with flats.

I've been looking at new Gibson basses

[/quote]
Just be aware a big factor in the original Gibson EB-2's thuddy tone was the short scale. The mudbucker at the neck will give you a bassy, wooly sound but the thud is very much a product of the scale length. The new EB-2 / 335 Gibson bass is a long (34") scale so won't sound quite the same as the originals do. The Starbass is also long scale and it's pickups are too bright and too far forward for that EB thump.

So far as cellulose finishes go, Gibson have been doing it for more than half a century so they're pretty good at it Cellulose is a harder finish than most water based finishes you see on cars and it looks nicer when it eventually does start to wear out. Don't worry about it.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='henry norton' timestamp='1389859165' post='2338650']
Just be aware a big factor in the original Gibson EB-2's thuddy tone was the short scale. The mudbucker at the neck will give you a bassy, wooly sound but the thud is very much a product of the scale length. The new EB-2 / 335 Gibson bass is a long (34") scale so won't sound quite the same as the originals do. The Starbass is also long scale and it's pickups are too bright and too far forward for that EB thump.

So far as cellulose finishes go, Gibson have been doing it for more than half a century so they're pretty good at it Cellulose is a harder finish than most water based finishes you see on cars and it looks nicer when it eventually does start to wear out. Don't worry about it.
[/quote]

Cheers. Yeah I am probably over thinking it. I've just never had a nitro finished instrument. I don't mind the kinda cool honest wear and tear...and I hear that the sunburst finishes look really nice over time.

I should probably take the plunge and just be careful. We don't have major extreme weather over here so its not like I'll be taking it from a freezing 2 hour car journey into a red hot gig very often....if at all!

I've been looking into the scale issue. I'd personally prefer to keep it 34", despite the sound differences. I'm just far too used to a normal bass guitar scale now.

I'm definitely going to give the Gibson some thought...

[Dingus]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1389789797' post='2337874']
I've always been a fan of the large semi-hollow basses and guitars, such as the Gibson E335 shape/etc, and I've recently been craving a very thuddy 'upright-meets-bass-guitar' type tone from a bass with a fat neck pickup strung with flats.

I've been looking at new Gibson basses, and they mainly seem to be finished in nitro.

Being how I am, this might not be a wise move! Some players love the checking/wear, and whilst honest wear is fine with me, I'm not sure I could be doing with having to put dusters on stands/not opening the case after its been outside for a while.

I do not think checking looks good!

Just how fragile is it??!

Thanks
[/quote]

I don't think you would encounter those problems with a modern Gibson nitro finish, Gareth. The nitrocellulose they use today is very different to that which was available in the 1950's and 1960's. The chemical companies have had decades to refine and develop their products and, as with modern paints, they are far more robust and stable overall. There will be a big difference between the robustness of these current finishes and how vintage instruments have worn .

[Minty]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1389979381' post='2340262']
I don't think you would encounter those problems with a modern Gibson nitro finish, Gareth.
[/quote]

Not sure if '94 would really be considered "Modern", but my Les Paul from that year has natural finish checking all over it...

[bumnote]

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fenderc.html

There an article here that says all fenders from 1963 had a base coat of sealer that was acrylic not nitro, and used both acrylic and nitro as a top coat,

[skankdelvar]

And another article [url="http://www.caraguitars.com/fullerplast.htm"]here[/url] which agrees that Fender used Fullerplast acrylic sealer from 1963 - but used similar products from other manufacturers [i]from 1956 onwards[/i]! So much for golden age 'mojo'.

It is believed that through pressure of time some Fenders may have skipped the sealant-dipping process and gone straight to the spray booth. Hence the existence of certain instruments where the nitro has worn straight down to bare wood. This - in turn - introduces further confusion and debate.

It's all voodoo, really, when one considers that the determining factor in Mr Fender's mind was production efficiency and product durability. 'Chop 'em out and get them on the truck. Tone? What's that?'