Alembic mark king

[4000]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1390569604' post='2346971']
It's not just a question of taste .Besides which,there is good taste and bad taste, and what constitutes good taste, contrary to popular fallacy, is not just a matter of opinion but also aesthetic awareness . We all make qualitative and quantitative judgements about all kinds of things hundreds of times a day, why would music be excluded from that? I'm not trying to have a row with you, my friend, but everything is quantifiable, or at least eligible to be assessed , including Mark King.

If you enjoy MK's slap playing and prefer it to that of Marcus Miller then that is perfectly fine . Maybe what you say strikes a nerve with me because on more than one occasion I have heard Mark King in interviews compare and contrast his style with that of Marcus Miller as if he were Marcus' equal. He is not, and if he thinks he is in the same league as Marcus Miller as a bass player on any level then he is deluded.
[/quote]

And there you go again. Aesthetic awareness is down to individual or learned cultural considerations and is ultimately just opinion, collective or otherwise. Your opinion re MK and Marcus holds no more water than somebody stating that band x is better than band y. FWIW, I've read a couple of interviews with MK where he's mentioned Marcus and all he has done is describe his slap style as different, which is a perfectly valid statement. I could describe my style as different to either, and that would be perfectly valid too. It has nothing to do with being better, worse or equal. Which of course is a matter of opinion anyway. I would argue that the most important concerns for an artist are to develop a unique and recogniseable voice and to have some degree of cultural impact. MK, like him or not, has certainly done that.

[4000]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1390570076' post='2346985']
If you are going to buy one of these basses, Marcus, then I would try and get one of the slightly more upmarket versions with the purpleheart laminates in the neck. They help improve both the overall tone of the bass and structural stability of the neck . These full size Alembics just don't look right without the proper stringers in the neck-thru-body , either.
[/quote]

The purpleheart will potentially [i]change[/i] the tone. Whether it makes it better or worse is, again, a matter of opinion.

[UglyDog]

Music is a way of life, not a contest. There are few things more pointless than arguing that musician A is 'better than' musician B.

[4000]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1390683775' post='2348356']
Music is a way of life, not a contest. There are few things more pointless than arguing that musician A is 'better than' musician B.
[/quote]
Indeed.

[Dingus]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1390674658' post='2348262']
And there you go again. Aesthetic awareness is down to individual or learned cultural considerations and is ultimately just opinion, collective or otherwise. Your opinion re MK and Marcus holds no more water than somebody stating that band x is better than band y. FWIW, I've read a couple of interviews with MK where he's mentioned Marcus and all he has done is describe his slap style as different, which is a perfectly valid statement. I could describe my style as different to either, and that would be perfectly valid too. It has nothing to do with being better, worse or equal. Which of course is a matter of opinion anyway. I would argue that the most important concerns for an artist are to develop a unique and recogniseable voice and to have some degree of cultural impact. MK, like him or not, has certainly done that.
[/quote]

What you consistently fail to understand is that all opinions are not of equal worth, and someone with a more informed opinion would concur that, whatever merits Mark King may or may not have as a bass player, Marcus Miller is a completely different calibre of musician. Mark King [i]does s[/i]peak about himself as if he were in the same echelon as Marcus Miller, and I cannot help but recognise that as an act of hubris. Mark King has indeed developed a voice on the instrument, it just doesn't sound very good , and his "cultural impact", as you put it, amounts to Level 42, who were and still are , for the most part, bloody awful.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Dingus

[Dingus]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1390674798' post='2348264']
The purpleheart will potentially [i]change[/i] the tone. Whether it makes it better or worse is, again, a matter of opinion.
[/quote]

Well, if you talk to Alembic they will tell you that the neck laminates do indeed affect the sound, and that all their experience has shown them that the stiffer the neck , the better the sound of the bass. That is why the single most effective upgrade Alembic recommend for their basses is going for the extra cost of the ebony laminates in the neck, because they add even greater stiffness than purpleheart, and the sonic benefits are very apparent.

[4000]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1390746642' post='2348893']
What you consistently fail to understand is that all opinions are not of equal worth, and someone with a more informed opinion would concur that, whatever merits Mark King may or may not have as a bass player, Marcus Miller is a completely different calibre of musician. Mark King [i]does s[/i]peak about himself as if he were in the same echelon as Marcus Miller, and I cannot help but recognise that as an act of hubris. Mark King has indeed developed a voice on the instrument, it just doesn't sound very good , and his "cultural impact", as you put it, amounts to Level 42, who were and still are , for the most part, bloody awful.
[/quote]

You mean that you have a more informed opinion than me. Hilarious. I studied fine art for years and have consistently understood that many art critics' opinions count for nothing. If the cap fits.

I'm actually not a big Level 42 fan, but the fact that you think musician A is any more valid than musician B simply because you believe it to be so is, ironically enough, an enormous act of hubris. See what I did there?

Have you ever met Mark King? I assure you that in my experience (I have by the way) he's actually pretty self-deprecating. Unlike, apparently, yourself.

[4000]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1390751395' post='2348970']
Well, if you talk to Alembic they will tell you that the neck laminates do indeed affect the sound, and that all their experience has shown them that the stiffer the neck , the better the sound of the bass. That is why the single most effective upgrade Alembic recommend for their basses is going for the extra cost of the ebony laminates in the neck, because they add even greater stiffness than purpleheart, and the sonic benefits are very apparent.
[/quote]

I've talked to Alembic at great length; they made me a custom bass. Strangely enough, they understand that different people have different sonic preferences, a concept that seems beyond you.

Did I say purpleheart lams didn't affect the sound? No. It's perfectly likely that they will in most cases. FWIW carbon fibre necks are stiffer still and yet many people don't like their sonic properties. However you really don't understand 'subjective' do you? There is no 'better' when it comes to sound. Which sounds better, an ash or an alder body? A maple or rosewood fingerboard? Long scale or short scale? Precision or Jazz? Les Paul or Strat? All subjective.

Edited January 26, 2014 by 4000

[Dingus]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1390755735' post='2349068']
You mean that you have a more informed opinion than me. Hilarious. I studied fine art for years and have consistently understood that many art critics' opinions count for nothing. If the cap fits.

I'm actually not a big Level 42 fan, but the fact that you think musician A is any more valid than musician B simply because you believe it to be so is, ironically enough, an enormous act of hubris. See what I did there?

Have you ever met Mark King? I assure you that in my experience (I have by the way) he's actually pretty self-deprecating. Unlike, apparently, yourself.
[/quote]



When did I ever direct my remarks specifically towards you? The fact remains that , if everyone has a right to an opinion, as I am so frequently told nowadays by people such as yourself , then surely everyone also has a right to assess and evaluate those opinions and give more credence to some than others. I am sorry you find that such an unreasonable stance. I can only suppose that you have you own reasons for being so unreasonable, but like most unreasonable people, you seem to think you are eminently reasonable and the arbiter of what constitutes good judgement. The fact is that you are making this far more complicated than it needs tio be. My comments about Mark King are based on the simple fact that, compared to musicians like Marcus Miller and several others of a similarly elevated stature that I could mention , Mark isn't particularly good at playing the bass guitar in an effective manner . That is all .

To answer your question , no I have never met Mark King, but we do have mutual friends and apparently he is, just as you say, a very nice man. The fact remains that he sees himself as an alternative to Marcus Miller. He is not , and never will be.

You really need to get over this whole "everybody's opinion is just as valid as everybody else's" thing, for your own sake rather than for mine. It worries me when I think of some of the ridiculous opinions you might end up accommodating as the result of such a policy.

[Dingus]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1390756239' post='2349078']
I've talked to Alembic at great length; they made me a custom bass. Strangely enough, they understand that different people have different sonic preferences, a concept that seems beyond you.

Did I say purpleheart lams didn't affect the sound? No. It's perfectly likely that they will in most cases. FWIW carbon fibre necks are stiffer still and yet many people don't like their sonic properties. However you really don't understand 'subjective' do you? There is no 'better' when it comes to sound. Which sounds better, an ash or an alder body? A maple or rosewood fingerboard? Long scale or short scale? Precision or Jazz? Les Paul or Strat? All subjective.
[/quote]

I too have spoken to Alembic at great length when I visited them in Santa Rosa with a view to them making me a bass,. We spoke in detail about neck fabrication , and that is when they impressed upon me their opinion that the stiffer the neck is made by the laminates , the better the overall tone. I opted for a graphite neck , but Alembic were unable to proceed with the order because they subsequently stopped offering that option due a parting of the ways with Modulus who supplied the graphite necks, and so I made other arrangements. So how from that you can extrapolate my passing on that information about neck laminates told to me by Mica and Bob that the concept that different people have different sonic preferences is beyond me , I can only wonder at. And when you say there is no "better" when it comes to sound, in fact there is , i.e the one that sounds better. There may, however, be several options which sound equally as good.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Dingus

[4000]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1390757844' post='2349113']
When did I ever direct my remarks specifically towards you? The fact remains that , if everyone has a right to an opinion, as I am so frequently told nowadays by people such as yourself , then surely everyone also has a right to assess and evaluate those opinions and give more credence to some than others. I am sorry you find that such an unreasonable stance. I can only suppose that you have you own reasons for being so unreasonable, but like most unreasonable people, you seem to think you are eminently reasonable and the arbiter of what constitutes good judgement. The fact is that you are making this far more complicated than it needs tio be. My comments about Mark King are based on the simple fact that, compared to musicians like Marcus Miller and several others of a similarly elevated stature that I could mention , Mark isn't particularly good at playing the bass guitar in an effective manner . That is all .

To answer your question , no I have never met Mark King, but we do have mutual friends and apparently he is, just as you say, a very nice man. The fact remains that he sees himself as an alternative to Marcus Miller. He is not , and never will be.

You really need to get over this whole "everybody's opinion is just as valid as everybody else's" thing, for your own sake rather than for mine. It worries me when I think of some of the ridiculous opinions you might end up accommodating as the result of such a policy.
[/quote]

It is [i]your opinion[/i] (although many others may agree, possibly even Mark King) that Mark King isn't particularly good at playing the bass guitar. I suspect even Marcus would disagree with that. Still, all opinion. FWIW, [i]any[/i] musician is a valid alternative to [i]any other[/i] musician. By your argument, whats the point of Marcus Miller when you have Anthony Jackson?

God forbid some of the ridiculous opinions people out there might have, eh? You obviously feel there's a place for elitism in art. I don't.

FWIW, [i]you[/i] really need to get over [i]yourself[/i].

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1390757844' post='2349113']
To answer your question , no I have never met Mark King, but we do have mutual friends and apparently he is, just as you say, a very nice man. The fact remains that he sees himself as an alternative to Marcus Miller. He is not , and never will be.
[/quote]
I like some Mark King / Level 42 stuff but i've got to agree with the above. On the other hand there are plenty of people on BC who think that Alice Cooper is the cutting edge of rock and that ELO as the best thing since the Fab Four where i see one as a 70s teeny group and the latter as sterile muzak for lager tops drinkers so what do i know?

[Dingus]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1390759054' post='2349142']
It is [i]your opinion[/i] (although many others may agree, possibly even Mark King) that Mark King isn't particularly good at playing the bass guitar. I suspect even Marcus would disagree with that. Still, all opinion. FWIW, [i]any[/i] musician is a valid alternative to [i]any other[/i] musician. By your argument, whats the point of Marcus Miller when you have Anthony Jackson?

God forbid some of the ridiculous opinions people out there might have, eh? You obviously feel there's a place for elitism in art. I don't.

FWIW, [i]you[/i] really need to get over [i]yourself[/i].
[/quote]

I need to get over all kinds of things.

I don't really know what you mean by "valid". And, yes, there is definitely a place for elitism in art. Art is not necessarily a democratic or inclusive experience.

[4000]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1390758530' post='2349126']
I too have spoken to Alembic at great length when I visited them in Santa Rosa with a view to them making me a bass,. We spoke in detail about neck fabrication , and that is when they impressed upon me their opinion that the stiffer the neck is made by the laminates , the better the overall tone. I opted for a graphite neck , but Alembic were unable to proceed with the order because they subsequently stopped offering that option due a parting of the ways with Modulus who supplied the graphite necks, and so I made other arrangements. So how from that you can extrapolate my passing on that information about neck laminates told to me by Mica and Bob that the concept that different people have different sonic preferences is beyond me , I can only wonder at. And when you say there is no "better" when it comes to sound, in fact there is , i.e the one that sounds better. There may, however, be several options which sound equally as good.
[/quote]

Dear oh dear. And what sounds better? Who determines it sounds better? If two equally talented musicians have two different preferences, who is right? Jaco Pastorius preferred to use the back pickup only on his Jazzes. So if Jaco, who many consider to be the greatest electric bassist of all time, decided that was better, why don't we all have the same opinion? Shouldn't we all bow to Jaco?

The folks at Alembic certainly have their own preferences and it's true they prefer ebony lams. However they're also fully aware that different people require different things, hence all the options. I actually went ahead with my build and had purpleheart lams. However I've played other builds without purple heart lams that I've liked just as much, although they didn't necessarily sound the same. Because there is no 'better', only your preference.

Interesting that you should comment on graphite necks, which I already mentioned. If graphite was unequivocally better-sounding, why do so many musicians (me included) prefer the sound of a wooden-necked instrument? I think you need to go and talk to Steve Swallow about what he looks for in an instrument; it might open your eyes.

[4000]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1390759843' post='2349153']
I need to get over all kinds of things.

I don't really know what you mean by "valid". And, yes, there is definitely a place for elitism in art. Art is not necessarily a democratic or inclusive experience.
[/quote]

Hmm. And [i]you[/i] think [i]I'm[/i] unreasonable.

[4000]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1390759539' post='2349151']
sterile muzak
[/quote]

Ah, you've heard Marcus then?

[Dingus]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1390760371' post='2349161']
Hmm. And [i]you[/i] think [i]I'm[/i] unreasonable.
[/quote]

Listen, my friend, I'm having a discussion with you about this, not an argument, despite your apparent determination to make things personal. But yes, I am unreasonable. However despite the failings of my personality , the fact remains that art requires craft, skill, endeavour, creativity and imagination. Those are a rare combination of qualities, and as such are by their very nature exclusive. People who possess those qualities and know how to use them to create beauty are an artistic elite. That is not of my making.

[Dingus]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1390760155' post='2349158']
Dear oh dear. And what sounds better? Who determines it sounds better? If two equally talented musicians have two different preferences, who is right? Jaco Pastorius preferred to use the back pickup only on his Jazzes. So if Jaco, who many consider to be the greatest electric bassist of all time, decided that was better, why don't we all have the same opinion? Shouldn't we all bow to Jaco?

The folks at Alembic certainly have their own preferences and it's true they prefer ebony lams. However they're also fully aware that different people require different things, hence all the options. I actually went ahead with my build and had purpleheart lams. However I've played other builds without purple heart lams that I've liked just as much, although they didn't necessarily sound the same. Because there is no 'better', only your preference.

Interesting that you should comment on graphite necks, which I already mentioned. If graphite was unequivocally better-sounding, why do so many musicians (me included) prefer the sound of a wooden-necked instrument? I think you need to go and talk to Steve Swallow about what he looks for in an instrument; it might open your eyes.
[/quote]

Woah there! Hold on a minute. Just because I bought a graphite necked bass that doesn't mean I am championing them at the exclusion of wooden necks. Where are you getting all this from ? You are quite right that there are many different preferences and prejudices that we all have when it comes to choosing basses.

[4000]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1390761965' post='2349196']
Listen, my friend, I'm having a discussion with you about this, not an argument, despite your apparent determination to make things personal. But yes, I am unreasonable. However despite the failings of my personality , the fact remains that art requires craft, skill, endeavour, creativity and imagination. Those are a rare combination of qualities, and as such are by their very nature exclusive. People who possess those qualities and know how to use them to create beauty are an artistic elite. That is not of my making.
[/quote]

But 'good' art is not quantifiable. Who is 'better', Monet or Picasso? Whoever decides that one is better than the other is simply stating their opinion. One may have more cultural impact, but that doesn't mean they're 'better'.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1390760626' post='2349166']
Ah, you've heard Marcus then?
[/quote]
Try reading my post again and by all means feel free to ask me anything that you may not have understood.

[4000]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1390762271' post='2349206']
Woah there! Hold on a minute. Just because I bought a graphite necked bass that doesn't mean I am championing them at the exclusion of wooden necks. Where are you getting all this from ? You are quite right that there are many different preferences and prejudices that we all have when it comes to choosing basses.
[/quote]

Which has been my point all along. Hence why there is no 'better' sound, no 'better' construction, etc etc.

FWIW it also applies to everything else, including musicians.

[4000]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1390763321' post='2349234']
Try reading my post again and by all means feel free to ask me anything that you may not have understood.
[/quote]
Right back at you.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1390763398' post='2349238']
Right back at you.
[/quote]
Thanks.

[marcus bell]

This thread went from a really good one to one that absolutely sucks.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='marcus bell' timestamp='1390771784' post='2349392']
This thread went from a really good one to one that absolutely sucks.
[/quote]
It's just a thread on a forum so i wouldn't worry about it too much.

I actually thought that a lot of it was really amusing.