discreet Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) [b]Valve or SS Power Stage?[/b] Had a quick search but couldn't find much... apologies as I'm sure this has probably been covered... I've always imagined the power stage of an amp to be unimportant when it comes to the 'tone' part of the equation and always believed the pre-amp to be the main 'tone' generator. Whether the power stage is driven by valves or solid-state circuits doesn't matter, right? It's just about providing enough beans to make your tone choice louder, isn't it? Recently I acquired a valve pre and valve power amp. Just out of interest I tried plugging my VT Bass (analogue, but no valves involved) into the valve power amp and... it's astonishing. Lots of heft and bounce that you just don't get from an SS power amp. Is there someone out there who can explain this? It seems to me that valve power makes a big difference, but there are others who would say it's not so. What is the truth? Edited January 18, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Sag. When a valve amp is pushed hard at high volume, it draws lots of current, which the power circuit can't deliver quickly enough. This creates a small amount of compression at the start of the note, which then blossoms into the full note in a very pleasing manner. For me, it's not the case that one is better than the other, more that each has strengths and weaknesses. I have one clean SS rig (well, I will when the cab arrives), and one all-valve rig. Edited January 18, 2014 by Roland Rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Depends on the SS power stage. IMO The Ag DB amps more than keep up with the big valve jobs, but the output stage is VERY wieghty...which is needs to be, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1390045703' post='2340802'] I have one clean SS rig and one all-valve rig. [/quote] Has anyone run both together at a gig for the hell of it? [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1390046366' post='2340816'] The Ag DB amps more than keep up with the big valve jobs, but the output stage is VERY weighty ...which is needs to be, IMO. [/quote] More than likely transformer weight, then - which would back up my completely unscientific and unproven theory that it is these which are responsible for heft, twang, beef, thump and 'the bounce'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I've had a theory for a long time that the output transformer on a valve amp is actually the bit that makes gives them the characteristic sound rather than the valves themselves. There is IMO nothing about actual valves that cant be easily simulated by various other means but the output transformer is another matter - it decouples the speaker from the output circuit in a way that probably causes a lot of interesting and complex resonance effects. When I last played guitar I used a mosfet power amp and used a 1 ohm resistor in series with the speaker to stop the amp damping the speaker so much and that gave me back some of the "heft" that is usually lacking with all solid state guitar setups especially when playing palm muted chords with distortion. For bass though its not something I miss enough to want to carry around a 20+kg head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1390047281' post='2340832'] More than likely transformer weight, then - which would back up my completely unscientific and unproven theory that it is these which are responsible for heft, twang, beef, thump and 'the bounce'. [/quote] ...................... I'd agree.... can't explain it but I can hear it. It is also the amp that gets the most comments on sound. It FILLS the room.... whereas some amps are just heard. In this regard, it can be too loud...if that makes sense.... as what sounds great to me on stage is rocking the back walls. Edited January 18, 2014 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1390053317' post='2340928'] I've had a theory for a long time that the output transformer on a valve amp is actually the bit that makes gives them the characteristic sound rather than the valves themselves. There is IMO nothing about actual valves that cant be easily simulated by various other means but the output transformer is another matter - it decouples the speaker from the output circuit in a way that probably causes a lot of interesting and complex resonance effects. When I last played guitar I used a mosfet power amp and used a 1 ohm resistor in series with the speaker to stop the amp damping the speaker so much and that gave me back some of the "heft" that is usually lacking with all solid state guitar setups especially when playing palm muted chords with distortion. For bass though its not something I miss enough to want to carry around a 20+kg head. [/quote] That's very interesting. I'm quite prepared to haul a heavy head for the sake of 'the heft'... but I won't carry heavy cabs any more - that's all over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skychaserhigh Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I'm not that impressed with the lightweight heads , the older heavier amps just sound and feel better to me . Some of the newer light cabs are great though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 [quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1390075835' post='2341252'] I'm not that impressed with the lightweight heads, the older heavier amps just sound and feel better to me. [/quote] I'm bound to agree now that I've [s]lumbered myself with[/s] invested in an old, heavy amp. I owned a Markbass Little Mark for a while and used it with a VT Bass which sounded good - but it just didn't have the big bounce. My Carvin B2000 is really great for a hybrid amp and it [i]does[/i] have heft - but not as much as my new (old) valve amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I am very settled with heavy-ish Trace heads and lightweight BF cabs. My sound and easily moved. It's a happy relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) Edited January 19, 2014 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 ^ ^ That's about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1390160766' post='2342179'] [/quote] Excellent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1390078854' post='2341304'] I'm bound to agree now that I've [s]lumbered myself with[/s] invested in an old, heavy amp. I owned a Markbass Little Mark for a while and used it with a VT Bass which sounded good - but it just didn't have the big bounce. My Carvin B2000 is really great for a hybrid amp and it [i]does[/i] have heft - but not as much as my new (old) valve amp. [/quote] Really glad you've posted your experiences with your Burman stuff. It's prompted me to try the same setup. Transaction ongoing as I type! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 [quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1390219153' post='2342640'] Really glad you've posted your experiences with your Burman stuff. It's prompted me to try the same setup. Transaction ongoing as I type! [/quote] Er... nah, Burman kit sounds terrible and is totally unreliable. You'd be better off buying a nice Ampeg rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 [quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1390075835' post='2341252'] I'm not that impressed with the lightweight heads , the older heavier amps just sound and feel better to me . [/quote] Agreed, but it's the old thing about[i][b] weighs 10 times as much, doesn't sound 10 times better[/b][/i]. I love my Matamp and I use it at any gig where it's appropriate. Our NYE gig was not an appropriate venue for a 100W all-valve amp so I took the OTB500 instead. Did it sound as good as the Matamp? No. Did it sound good? Yes. Did anyone else notice? No. Am I glad that I have both? Yes. Do I suffer from some sort of bi-polar disorder? Why would you think that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1390220858' post='2342675'] Do I suffer from some sort of bi-polar disorder? Why would you think that ... [/quote] I don't think that! ...Yes, I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.